Microsoft to force Windows updates?

[Steve]

I think part of the issue is that when XP was released, it was touted as the
most secure OS ever. Arguably, that has not been true. However, if you
ever do a clean install of XP before applying the updates, time how long it
takes XP to start up, and then time how long it takes IE to start up. Then
install the updates and see the huge difference in the speed of your system.

Not to mention the folks who buy a brand-new XP system, then have to
spend hours downloading updates on a dialup connection.

 

[Mike Mueller]

:: Maybe it's time to dump this crap and get a Mac. It may
:: also be time to treat the terrorists like terrorists
:: before they take out a nuke plant and execute them.
::
::
:: Every one of these bug, worms goes after M$. My next
:: machine WILL be a Mac! Fact.
::
:
: What the heck is that going to solve? It's not the
: machine, it's the OS. Why dump the hardware when there's
: nothing wrong with it? You can always switch to linux if
: you feel that strongly about this issue. -Dave

Viruses are written to target the dominant OS, which happens
to be Windows. If the majority of users switched to Mac or
whatever, then the viruses would be written to target that
instead.

 

[Mike Mueller]

Will-

You are correct that all users have a license (legit or not)
to use their OS. I did; however, qualify the statement by
saying if you are network connected.

The EULA only allows use of the OS, not to network. Most
ISPs require an agreement- TOS.

Your DL allows you to drive a car or light truck. A CDL is
required for heavy duty and/or commercial vehicles. It will
also have endorsements for what type; ie air brakes, haz
mat, etc. Furthermore; a DL or CDL can have restriction
codes placed on it; ie auto trans only, corrective lenses
required. I won't touch Organ Donor stickers.

Mike


: Hi
:
: All users have a 'License' to use XP (or one version of
: Windows) - they don't own that copy of XP ( or any other
: version of Windows). When I passed my driving test - I
: could drive any car, not just the one that I passed my
: driving test in - case scenario?
:
: Will
:
: message :: Hi Will,
:: You should have 1 license per OS family. If you
:: have an
:: ME license, you automatically are licensed for 98 & 95.
:: You don't a license to drive a car, only if you drive on
:: the
:: streets. Same applies here; you can own and use a
:: computer,
:: just need a license if you network.
::
:: Mike
::
::
::
::: Hi Bruce
:::
::: Does that mean if one person owns 4 PCs only one license
::: is needed? A bit heavy on 'National Security' - I
::: thought.
:::
::: Will
:::
::: in
::: message :::: Greetings --
::::
:::: Personally, I prefer John Dvorak's solution:
:::: require all computer
:::: owners to get a license.
::::
:::: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1224343,00.asp
::
::
:
:
: ---
: Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
: Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date:
: 19/08/2003

 

[EGMcCann]

See Below...
Macs are very user-friendly, and very secure
True.

. But they are very pricey, and

Which models? For what most people *really* do, an eMac (starting at $799)
would work perfectly. iBook ($999) if you needed mobility.

of no use to power users. Plus, most software isn't written for mac. And

"Most software" being... ? Games? I'll give you that, though that's getting
better. Anti virus utilities? MS Office... no, wait, that's on the Mac. Of
course, for what most people do, the included Appleworks does fine. And IIRC
reads Office formats.

you can't configure them as much, hardware and software.

But do you really NEED to? More RAM. Sure. Hard drives? Sure. The PowerMacs
are easy to open and get into - and aimed at the professional. The iMac and
eMac are aimed at the home/casual user, and are closer to the "computer
appliance."

And if Apple is sooo great, then why does MS have to give them money to keep
them in business.

Ummm... they don't. Why did they give them money before (and get non voting
stock?) PR. One time. Over five years ago. And in the overall scheme of
things - it *wasn't* that much. The original iMac really turned things
around for them.

 

[Will Denny]

Hi Mike

Indeed you did qualify your statement - I would like to apologise for any remiss comment that I made.

I have a 'condition' whereby I have to renew my DL every 3 years. It is a full license, but...

Will

 

[Mike Mueller]

Will-

No apology needed. This is an educational thread to all.
Everyone should be able to see that others may look at
things differently than they do. We can also see that
requirements may differ. My license gets renewed every 8
years. I also need to pass a vision test when I renew.
Maybe the internet license can have a test and to pass you
have to check which attachment you should not open...

Mike


: Hi Mike
:
: Indeed you did qualify your statement - I would like to
: apologise for any remiss comment that I made.
:
: I have a 'condition' whereby I have to renew my DL every
: 3 years. It is a full license, but...
:
: Will
:
: message :: Will-
::
:: You are correct that all users have a license (legit or
:: not)
:: to use their OS. I did; however, qualify the statement
:: by
:: saying if you are network connected.
::
:: The EULA only allows use of the OS, not to network. Most
:: ISPs require an agreement- TOS.
::
:: Your DL allows you to drive a car or light truck. A CDL
:: is
:: required for heavy duty and/or commercial vehicles. It
:: will
:: also have endorsements for what type; ie air brakes, haz
:: mat, etc. Furthermore; a DL or CDL can have restriction
:: codes placed on it; ie auto trans only, corrective lenses
:: required. I won't touch Organ Donor stickers.
::
:: Mike
::
::
::: Hi
:::
::: All users have a 'License' to use XP (or one version of
::: Windows) - they don't own that copy of XP ( or any other
::: version of Windows). When I passed my driving test - I
::: could drive any car, not just the one that I passed my
::: driving test in - case scenario?
:::
::: Will
:::
::: message :::: Hi Will,
:::: You should have 1 license per OS family. If you
:::: have an
:::: ME license, you automatically are licensed for 98 & 95.
:::: You don't a license to drive a car, only if you drive
:::: on
:::: the
:::: streets. Same applies here; you can own and use a
:::: computer,
:::: just need a license if you network.
::::
:::: Mike
::::
::::
::::
::::: Hi Bruce
:::::
::::: Does that mean if one person owns 4 PCs only one
::::: license
::::: is needed? A bit heavy on 'National Security' - I
::::: thought.
:::::
::::: Will
:::::
::::: in
::::: message :::::: Greetings --
::::::
:::::: Personally, I prefer John Dvorak's solution:
:::::: require all computer
:::::: owners to get a license.
::::::
:::::: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1224343,00.asp
::::
::::
:::
:::
::: ---
::: Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
::: Checked by AVG anti-virus system
::: (http://www.grisoft.com).
::: Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date:
::: 19/08/2003
::
::
::
:
:
: ---
: Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
: Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date:
: 19/08/2003

 

[JohnDoe]

Ummm... they don't. Why did they give them money before (and get non voting
stock?) PR. One time. Over five years ago. And in the overall scheme of
things - it *wasn't* that much. The original iMac really turned things
around for them.

go to any software store, look how much is available for PC type
machines and then compare that to what is available for Apples, there
is no comparison.
Then if you get into serious applications there is no contest, most of
the programs on the market is written for pc based machines.

If you only do word processing, spread sheets, play game, do email or
go onto the web an apple could be all you need but if you need to do
serious work on a machine the PC based machines are the ONLY way to
go.

 

[PCyr]

It's a bit of both.

--
Check out http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com for amazing tweaks and fixes

Member of "Newsgroups are for everyone" (Perdita X. Twitt is a
self-appointed, self-righteous, ruthless, bitchy net-cop too!)

Email address is fake to prevent SPAM.
Real email address is pcyr2000 AT hotmail DOT com
Change the obvious to the obvious.
------------------

 

[PCyr]

Exactly.

--
Check out http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com for amazing tweaks and fixes

Member of "Newsgroups are for everyone" (Perdita X. Twitt is a
self-appointed, self-righteous, ruthless, bitchy net-cop too!)

Email address is fake to prevent SPAM.
Real email address is pcyr2000 AT hotmail DOT com
Change the obvious to the obvious.
------------------

 

[Dr. Gee]

Is the Mac OS really that much more secure than Windows? Or does its
apparent security have more to do with hackers spending their time
attacking the dominant OS?

i use both Win2000 & Mac OS X. i think OS X is more secure. for example, even
my account has admin privlieges, for dangerous operations, it would ask the
password for "root" & it would only apply it to for that specific operation.


I also like the installation on OS X a lot better. no stupid registry nor
those VB script.

regards,

pam @ home ¤p¬}

Pam's Ode to Spammers & Telemarketers

May all spammers & telemarketers die an agonizing death; have no
burial places; their souls be chased by demons in Gehenna from one
room to another for 1000 years.

 

[abekl98034mypants]

That's why even MS uses Akamai Linux servers to protect their web site
from DoS attacks! LOL!

----------------------------
This is a common bit of misinformation from people who don't
understand MS's content distribution infrastructure.

Akamai is one of several companies who provide content distribution
network (CDN) services to MS - nothing to do with security at all.
MS's front facing servers all run Windows Server 2003.

For example, when you go to MS and use any of their online tools to
determine what updates for a product are needed/available, that
determination is made by negotiation between the client OS (you) and
one of hundreds of MS Windows 2003 servers on the Redmond campus.

Once the files needed are identified, the information is passed on to
to the CDN (if server load is high), which transparently serves up the
actual files for download.

That's how it actually works. Clearly, you're not an IT pro.


(Remove mypants to reply by email)

 

[Stan Brown]

Even if Microsoft's motives were as pure as the driven snow, one price
that would be paid comes from the tendency of Windows updates to break
things. Windows is simply not a robust platform, and it has the added
vulnerability of being used in a multitude of diverse environments
filled with ill-behaved applications and devices.

There's a much bigger worry. Even if Microsoft delivered good code
(hah!), whatever back door Microsoft creates in its operating system
would quickly by exploited by writers of malware.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Fortunately, I live in the United States of America, where we are
gradually coming to understand that nothing we do is ever our
fault, especially if it is really stupid. --Dave Barry

 

[kurttrail]

----------------------------
This is a common bit of misinformation from people who don't
understand MS's content distribution infrastructure.

Akamai is one of several companies who provide content distribution
network (CDN) services to MS - nothing to do with security at all.
MS's front facing servers all run Windows Server 2003.

For example, when you go to MS and use any of their online tools to
determine what updates for a product are needed/available, that
determination is made by negotiation between the client OS (you) and
one of hundreds of MS Windows 2003 servers on the Redmond campus.

Once the files needed are identified, the information is passed on to
to the CDN (if server load is high), which transparently serves up the
actual files for download.

That's how it actually works. Clearly, you're not an IT pro.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Akamai+microsoft&sa=N&tab=wn

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.kurttrail.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"

 

[kurttrail]

Hi

Whether I'm an IT Pro or not, I've heard my mother-in-law... Oh, yes
you were talking about an IT Pro - apart from the many MS Certs - I
have MSc and BSc(Hons) degrees - both in Computing/IT Business.

You know the Redmond Campus...

BTW, Linux sux.

Said the MicroBrainDead!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.kurttrail.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"

 

[Bill Rubin]

Yes, but the default is not to automatically install the
updates. I actually was working with a support guy at work today
cleaning the Blaster worm off of a couple of public machines in
a room we have with TV, kitchen, etc. In one case, the fix for
Blaster had been downloaded by the Automatic Updates, but never
got installed because no one clicked on the "install now" icon.
As a result of this, both machines were infected, and the LAN
connection to that room had been disabled. I changed both of
these machines to automatically install critical updates at 3am
and I hope that they will have far less problems now (and yes,
they already had Norton Antivirus installed with automatic
updates on that).

Bill

 

[Shaun Marolf]

Hi

Because without port 135 you e.g. can't map network drives, nor will you
be able to log on to a NT4/AD domain. Corporate IT managers leave it
open to avoid angry users that can't get their jobs done. In a corporate
environment, the only option is to install 823980 (the RPC security
update) on all computers.


--
torgeir
Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of the 1328 page
Scripting Guide: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter

No that's a load because I block port 135 and I can get my network drives
mapped just fine and I logon just as well Port 135 is for RPC ports 137 138
and 139 are used for networking better get it right before you try tell me
such BS. I've been setting up networks since MS-DOS days in the Navy and
now it I do it real world and I have never used port 135.

--Shaun

 

[stan]

Earlier this week, the Washington Post quoted Mike Nash, Microsoft
corporate vice president, as saying the company is "looking very
seriously" at requiring at least home users to have their operating
system automatically updated when Microsoft sends out a fix. Another
Microsoft security official was quoted as saying that having home and
small business users automatically receive and install software fixes
"would help the safety of a lot more customers."

And perhaps if Microcrap would get things right the first time, they would
not have to send out updates about as often as the sun rises. Nothing is
perfect, esp. software, but this is beyond reason. Microsoft advertised
Winblows XP as its most secure OS yet. In spite of that, hardly a day went
by after Winblows XP was released before someone found a way to remotely
exploit it.

It just amazes me how Microcrud maintains such dominance in the OS
industry when it clearly has no clue about developing quality software.

While my Winblows XP was busy being blasted by that Blaster worm, my Mac
OS X system that sits right next to the PC in my office was uneffected.
This is despite the fact that both systems have RPC services running on
them and both are unprotected on a high bandwidth Internet port. Well, I
finally had enough and now my Winblows PC is protected.

The reason I did not apply the patch to my Winblows system sooner was
because the last time I applied a Microcrud patch, it brought my system to
a halt and I had to finally back out that patch after spending a lot of
troubleshooting the problem.

As far as I am concerned, Microcrap ought to be paying people to use its
dysfunctional OS.

 

[stan]

A properly firewalled computer in combination with a good ant-virus and a
lot of common sense, is not in dire need of updates.

True, but than again, a computer that doesn't run an OS and software that
has more security holes than a fishnet doesn't need to have anti-virus
software and a firewall protecting it either.

Strange how my Mac OS X system has no protection of any kind and it has
never been touched by any unauthorized intrudors, worms, or viruses and I
use it every day.

 

[stan]

I agree with you about AV and firewalls. But there's a legitimate
question about the risk/reward ratio in downloading MS patches which
have caused numerous problems in the past. And there are certainly
issues involved in force-feeding patches...

Yup, a patch I installed on a Winblows 2000 server in April brought the
system to a halt at random intervals. It took a lot of troubleshooting
before a colleague pointed to an article on some web site that explained
that the culprit was Microshaft's April update. Removing that update
solved the problem so I decided with this last update to hold off a couple
of weeks before applying it, only to have one of my Winblows servers
assaulted by the Blaster worm.

With Microcrap updates, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I do not want some bozo at Microshaft pushing out updates to my computer
without my aproval first and if Microcrap's developers would make a better
effort at developing quality software, such a tactic would not be
necessary.

 

[Scott in Aztlan]

A properly firewalled computer in combination with a good ant-virus and a
lot of common sense, is not in dire need of updates.

Every single one of my home machines is proof of the above statement.