{PL} Proposed Pricelessware 2004 CD

S

Susan Bugher

John said:
Fine, but who is going to go through hundreds of programs one by one
to see what is missing ? IMO a list of the programs NOT included is
needed.

John, I believe your concerns have been addressed in previous posts.

Sinner said:

<quote>
The CD will require some editing but each category has its own folder
and each app has its own folder within the corresponding category.
</quote>

In my initial post in this thread I said:

<quote>
I think including a copy of the PL pages would be helpful to the
recipient of the CD, probably also an index of the included files and
versions. . .
</quote>

There *will* be enough indexing to make it reasonably easy to find a
program or find out that it's not included.

Susan
 
S

Steven Burn

Glenn said:
You go to all that work and I still have troubles. All the trouble of
putting them into categories and I can't figure what category I want.

Case in point. I was looking for a ghost type program the other day and had
no idea what category that would come under. For that matter, I still
don't. Alphabetical doesn't help either unless you know what it's called.

I have no idea how to make it plainer for us dummies so I guess the best
thing is to just ask like I always do. :)-))

Glenn

Should come under either "Disk Tools", "File Management" or "System" (unless
there's a backup catagory, in which case, it will most likely be in there)

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)
 
S

Susan Bugher

Glenn said:
You go to all that work and I still have troubles. All the trouble of
putting them into categories and I can't figure what category I want.

Case in point. I was looking for a ghost type program the other day and had
no idea what category that would come under. For that matter, I still
don't. Alphabetical doesn't help either unless you know what it's called.

The program index / alphabetical list has *some* cross-references. Was
it you that couldn't find the OCR program? I added that to the
cross-references. Suggestions for more additions are welcome.
I have no idea how to make it plainer for us dummies so I guess the best
thing is to just ask like I always do. :)-))

It is confusing. :) (especially since every site seems to do it
differently). Back-up/ghosting/partitioning tools are in SYSTEM UTILITIES.

BillR (I believe it was) posted about the advantages of using Google to
search the Pricelessware pages. There are search links for that on the
about page:

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/about2004PL.htm

simple search link is:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=site:www.pricelessware.org

advanced search:

http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:www.pricelessware.org&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

A Google search works very nicely to find the OCR program. Doesn't work
with ghost or ghosting but searching for partition shows you the right
page. You might want to try Google next time you're stumped.

FWIW - your confusion can't possibly exceed the confusion I felt about
this when I first stumbled into ACF a couple of years ago - things
become clearer as you go along. ;)

Keep asking please - it helps me figure out what needs more clarification.

Susan
 
S

Susan Bugher

Roger said:
Something I hadn't thought about until 5 minutes ago, is that anything
which is released under the GNU public licence requires that if you
distribute a compiled version on a CD (the FAQ for The Gimp does
specifically say Cover CD, but I guess the concept is the same) it must
contain the source code as well as the executable. Now if it's decided
that the CD should include programs released under GNU, if people who
use them could let us know what they are I don't have a problem grabbing
the sources.

IMO this won't be the same thing as a cover CD - as long as it's a
simple person to person distribution of the files. Possibly not needed?
In any event, a search of the PL2004 database shows these programs with
GNU in the status field:

Blender
(Freeware) (open source, GNU GPL)

K-meleon
(Freeware) (open source, GNU GPL)

Memtest86
(Donationware) (open source Gnu Public License)

LFN-Tools (Long FileNames in DOS)
(Freeware) (open source, GNU GPL) (discontinued)

VirtualDub
(Donationware) (open source: GNU GPL)

The Gimp
(Freeware) (open source, GNU GPL)

Frhed
(Freeware) (open source, GNU GPL)

GhostScript and GSView (GhostView)
(Freeware) (open source, GNU GPL) (unsupported) (GSView is Nagware)

Eraser
(Donationware) (open source GNU General Public License)
One other idea, how about creating an ISO image of the CD and making it
available for download?

I thought the point was to create something for people who "couldn't"
download cheaply and easily? What am I missing here?

Susan
 
S

Sietse Fliege

SINNER said:
At least one of the authors said no because I believe they think there
software is somehow being charged for, which is not the case.
Personally I cant understand an author denying distribution UNLESS
the freeware they offer is a way of introducing some payware, in
which case they want people to see their site and make a decison
based on feature set. Frankly I was surprised by Karenware's reaction.

I am not surprised at all.
Karen Kenworthy offers something like 28 Power Tools for free.
She also offers a CD as the easiest way to support her.
http://www.karenware.com/cd.asp

I could tell you a few other good reasons why authors would deny free
redistribution, but if you really cannot think them up yourself, I'm
afraid you can't be helped.
 
R

Roger Johansson

Susan Bugher said:
I thought the point was to create something for people who "couldn't"
download cheaply and easily? What am I missing here?

It is true that people who can download and iso also can download all those
program one by one, but if there is a compilation of programs available
they might want a copy of that, just to have them all in one place, or so
they can burn a cd for friends.

It doesn't hurt to give people that possibility, so there is no reason to
hinder it by not making it publically available.

Put it on some web space and give a download link in the PL pages.

"The Pricelessware CD for the year 2004", could be a suitable title.
 
B

Bjorn Abelli

Susan Bugher said:
I thought the point was to create something for people
who "couldn't" download cheaply and easily? What am I
missing here?

An ISO at a trustworthy site could facilitate the "distributors" of the CD,
and could make it possible for *more* people to help their "neighbours and
friends" to get a copy.

It would also be an added service to those who *can* download cheaply and
easily, but doesn't want to run all over the web to get each program.

// Bjorn A
 
S

Steven Burn

Bjorn Abelli said:
An ISO at a trustworthy site could facilitate the "distributors" of the CD,
and could make it possible for *more* people to help their "neighbours and
friends" to get a copy.

It would also be an added service to those who *can* download cheaply and
easily, but doesn't want to run all over the web to get each program.

// Bjorn A

What I'd like to know is;

1. Who's got 700MB+ webspace free for an iso?
2. Who's going to pay for the bandwidth for it?
3. Why not just pack the file's in a .zip (thus allowing people to easily
delete whatever they don't want..... without the hassle of extracting them
from the .iso first).

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)
 
R

Roger Spencelayh

I thought the point was to create something for people who "couldn't"
download cheaply and easily? What am I missing here?

Exactly as Roger Johansson says. Someone else has done all the hard work
of collating the programs. Easy to just download and create the CD, then
install and try a few programs without having to go to each site and
download them individually.
 
D

DAN

Susan said:
I'm having trouble envisioning this kind of problem. IMO the CD files
should be as safe or safer than downloaded files.

The difference is that the person doing the duplication has the install files on
his/her hard disk, and thus has the possibility of tampering with them.
Of course the risk exists also on websites, but reputable sites have a stake in
not doing it (their reputation), which a private hacker would not.

Suppose a little scum laces some of the files in the distro with a keylogger,
for ex. S/He thus gets a copy of relevant info from the PCs of those who install
it. If the hacker is smart/nasty/greedy, the focus could be on getting, say,
userids/psw for accounts with Amex, Visa, Mastercard, BancOne and suchlike.
The possibilities for misuse by a smart hacker are interesting, really.


The consequences, one can only imagine. Besides the stain on the reputation of
PL (which might even the motivation for a payware author), the potential claims
for damages under a screwed up legal system like the US one, etc.


Look, Susan. I am not trying to discourage anyone from the idea. I only point
out that a single black sheep could cause damage, or create exposure to
liabilities, for a lot of people unless some precautions are taken.

Maybe it is easy to protect against that risk, maybe not. I don't know, IANAL. I
just advocate that people should consider it before plunging. Things like a list
of CRC sums of the distros on a webpage, some legal disclaimers, stuff like
that, may be enough. Maybe not. I suggest that someone with understanding of
legal exposure issues should look into it.


Me, I like the idea and wish everyone all the best, but personally I won't touch
re-distribution with a 10-foot pole. Distrustful old fart, here.

Take care
DAN
 
R

REM

"Steven Burn" <[email protected]> wrote:
What I'd like to know is;
1. Who's got 700MB+ webspace free for an iso?
2. Who's going to pay for the bandwidth for it?
3. Why not just pack the file's in a .zip (thus allowing people to easily
delete whatever they don't want..... without the hassle of extracting them
from the .iso first).

I think I can handle it. I'm uping to a 2000 meg account with a 60
gig/month bandwidth limit. The bandwidth is the problem, depending on
how many people grab the image.

I have gone over 20 gigs with the current 100 megs of files I have
after Langa mentioned the site. That was an exception though. It
generally runs 8-15 gigs per month.

Hopefully the idea is people with fast connections grab the image and
spread it around.

Maybe the zipped files is a better idea. That might lower the
bandwidth and allow people to get only the files they want.

Or, maybe we can offer the image in more than one place?

Maybe someone can mirror my 100 megs in case I exceed my limit before
months end?

The other plans offered allow for a great amount more disk space, but
not much more bandwidth for a bunch of bucks.
 
S

Steven Burn

REM said:
I think I can handle it. I'm uping to a 2000 meg account with a 60
gig/month bandwidth limit. The bandwidth is the problem, depending on
how many people grab the image.

I have gone over 20 gigs with the current 100 megs of files I have
after Langa mentioned the site. That was an exception though. It
generally runs 8-15 gigs per month.

Hopefully the idea is people with fast connections grab the image and
spread it around.

Maybe the zipped files is a better idea. That might lower the
bandwidth and allow people to get only the files they want.

Or, maybe we can offer the image in more than one place?

Maybe someone can mirror my 100 megs in case I exceed my limit before
months end?

The other plans offered allow for a great amount more disk space, but
not much more bandwidth for a bunch of bucks.
</snip>

Unfortunately, the bandwidth isn't the problem at my end as I've got
unlimited bandwidth anyway. The problem I'd have is the space (I've only got
300MB on my main server, and less than ¼ of it left) as I can't afford to
purchase anymore.

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)
 
G

Glenn

Susan Bugher said:
Keep asking please - it helps me figure out what needs more clarification.

Susan
--
You're a Sweetheart! Or is that not PC anymore, even from an old guy? [g]

Glenn
 
S

SINNER

While strolling through alt.comp.freeware, Sietse Fliege was
overheard plotting:
I am not surprised at all.
Karen Kenworthy offers something like 28 Power Tools for free.
She also offers a CD as the easiest way to support her.
http://www.karenware.com/cd.asp

I could tell you a few other good reasons why authors would deny
free redistribution, but if you really cannot think them up
yourself, I'm afraid you can't be helped.

Bottom line is the stuff is FREEWARE. Stopping distribution can only
hurt her cause not help it. She dosent promote any commercial ware
based on the freeware, but if you feel insults are the way to get your
point across I wont need any help from you anyway as you have none to
offer.

*PLONK*
 
S

Susan Bugher

Roger said:
It is true that people who can download and iso also can download all those
program one by one, but if there is a compilation of programs available
they might want a copy of that, just to have them all in one place, or so
they can burn a cd for friends.

It doesn't hurt to give people that possibility, so there is no reason to
hinder it by not making it publically available.

Put it on some web space and give a download link in the PL pages.

"The Pricelessware CD for the year 2004", could be a suitable title.

Hi Roger

The publically available part is what concerns me. In his post Roger S.
also raised a question about the GNU public licence requirements:

There may be other issues we haven't thought of. My personal view is
that we should keep a low profile at first and not make an ISO
*publicly* available until we have gone through a trial period.

Having an ISO available for volunteers *would* facilitate distribution
of the CD. Perhaps that could be done this way: people who want to
download the ISO could request a URL which would be sent to them by
email. Only *known* participants in ACF would be given the URL.

One other point. I'm on dial-up and do not want to upload several
hundred megabytes. I could mail the CD to someone to upload . . .

Comments?

Susan
 
S

Susan Bugher

DAN said:
Look, Susan. I am not trying to discourage anyone from the idea. I only point
out that a single black sheep could cause damage, or create exposure to
liabilities, for a lot of people unless some precautions are taken.

Maybe it is easy to protect against that risk, maybe not. I don't know, IANAL. I
just advocate that people should consider it before plunging. Things like a list
of CRC sums of the distros on a webpage, some legal disclaimers, stuff like
that, may be enough. Maybe not. I suggest that someone with understanding of
legal exposure issues should look into it.


Me, I like the idea and wish everyone all the best, but personally I won't touch
re-distribution with a 10-foot pole. Distrustful old fart, here.

Take care
DAN

Anyone who *does* choose to volunteer should be as well informed as
possible. I'm counting on you and others to raise security and liability
issues and/or suggest precautions/safeguards. Thanks for posting.

Susan
 
R

Roger Johansson

Susan Bugher said:
One other point. I'm on dial-up and do not want to upload several
hundred megabytes. I could mail the CD to someone to upload . . .

If you decide the overall design of the CD the person who creates and hosts
the iso should be able to get the programs, so you don't have to send the
hundreds of megabytes of programs over your dial-up connection.

And I agree on the idea of making it available to trusted participators to
begin with.

I don't worry too much about possible misuse of a public iso (or zip)
either, but that can be a later discussion.
 
S

Sietse Fliege

SINNER said:
While strolling through alt.comp.freeware, Sietse Fliege was
overheard plotting:


Bottom line is the stuff is FREEWARE.

Yes, you can download and use it for free. I know that.
Stopping distribution can only hurt her cause not help it.

Your arrogance is that you seem to know better than Karen what's good
for her and that you think you have the right to comment or even to
criticize.
It is none of your bussiness why she does not allow redistribution.
Be grateful if you can use some of her tools. She owes you nothing.
She dosent promote any commercial ware based on the freeware, but if
you feel insults are the way to get your point across I wont need any
help from you anyway as you have none to offer.

Yes, I could and maybe should have been more polite.
But it sets me off seeing a great freeware author being critisized.
 
S

Steven Burn

Susan Bugher said:
Glenn said:
You're a Sweetheart! Or is that not PC anymore, even from an old guy?
[g]

Coming from you it sounds very nice. :)

Susan
</snip>

How about coming from me?.... <gg>

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)
 

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