{PL} Proposed Pricelessware 2004 CD

[Ben Cooper]

Hold it, hold it .... too much dander is being raised over a
misinterpretation.
Can things be done calmly and in a business-like manner? My take on this
from the outside is ... some of you are on two sides of ONE issue, and that
is the further distribution of FREEWARE. Whatever each of us interprets as
proper, some authors do indeed have packaged notes which specify that
his(her) product may be further distributed provided .......(intact packing,
all parts included of the original, no hacks, etc). On the other hand, some
authors have asked specifically that no further distros be made without
their further consent in some way. Am I all wet here?
=====================================================

I won't speak for Susan, but I am most certainly *not* upset
about any of this. You should try reading these posts using
a friendlier internal voice.
If placing restrictions on what can be distributed
encourages more people to participate then I'm all for it.
Now, as to the question of whether you're all wet there... I
don't think I want to know one way or the other.

 

[Anonymous]

|My initial impression was that the person using the "Pricelessware
|Admin" <[email protected]> address was misguided but acting in
|good faith. I'm beginning to wonder if that's true.
|
|That address is deceptive at best. Perhaps there is an intention to use
|it in some sort of fraud attempt related to the proposed PL2004 CD).

|Should ACF participants file complaints with Hotmail?
|
|Anonymous:
|
|Please *STOP* using that email address. If your intentions *are*
|honorable send a post to ACF stating you will not use the "Pricelessware
|Admin" <[email protected]> address again for ANY reason.

What makes you even think that I or anyone else has any intrest
in making some fake Pricelessware CD? Where is the proof of
this? Why would anyone want to? I have done one thing and one
thing only. Send emails asking if it they will allow thier
program to be included on a CD.

You said in another post "I'll be happy to put the CD together
but checking web sites, readme's and EULA's for redistribution
info is more work than I can handle." so someone does it for you
and and instead of saying thanks you suggest they they are some
sort of machiavellian con artist trying to ruin the name
Pricelessware. How bizarre you still use the information I have
provided and post it on the Pricelessware site.

-=-

 

[REM]

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 21:49:05 -0000, "Steven Burn"

Very nice Steven!

AutoIt

Could not find any information

1. GRANT OF LICENSE. (AutoIt)

This EULA grants you the following rights:

Installation and Use. You may install and use an unlimited number of
copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.

Reproduction and Distribution. You may reproduce and distribute an
unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided that
each copy shall be a true and complete copy, including all copyright
and trademark notices, and shall be accompanied by a copy of this
EULA. Copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may be distributed as a
standalone product or included with your own product.

burnatonce

Could not find any information

Looks like it requires the author's consent.


PS. The EULA is shown in many programs in the install.

 

[Susan Bugher]

I won't speak for Susan, but I am most certainly *not* upset
about any of this. You should try reading these posts using
a friendlier internal voice.
If placing restrictions on what can be distributed
encourages more people to participate then I'm all for it.

I'm not upset and I'm glad to hear you're not.

BTW - I do agree wholeheartedly that checking the EULA's is a PITA -
but ISTM that it will be easier *next* time - if we can just manage to
slog our way through now . . .

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

1by1;

1by1 is FREEWARE. You can freely use this software and

SNIP

Steven, you are a *prince*. I've added your info. Thanks.

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004ProgramIndexCD.php

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 21:49:05 -0000, "Steven Burn"
SNIP


Looks like it requires the author's consent.

Thank you for the info.

FWIW - I just drafted an email to send when the author has to give
permission. I think it covers the main points. If anyone wants to email
an author on behalf of ACF feel free to use it:

=============

SUBJECT: alt.comp.freeware request

Hello,

One of your programs was selected by participants in the
alt.comp.freeware newsgroup as a 2004 Pricelessware pick.

The newsgroup would like to make a free CD available with the
Pricelessware 2004 programs. Details of the proposed CD (goal, contents,
method of distribution etc.) are here:

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/proposal-CD.htm

Your Pricelessware program:
is listed here:

May we include your program in the proposed CD?

If you have any questions, feel free to contact me at this email address
or email the Pricelessware Links button:
mailto:[email protected] or post to the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup.

Sincerely yours,

--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
alt.comp.freeware FAQ - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

=====================

Susan

 

[Ben Cooper]

it.

I'm not upset and I'm glad to hear you're not.

BTW - I do agree wholeheartedly that checking the EULA's is a PITA -
but ISTM that it will be easier *next* time - if we can just manage to
slog our way through now . . .

Yes, ma'am, I won't argue with that.
You and the others handle the manufacturing decisions (I did
have to put my *unsupported* opinions on the table, though).
I'll help with the distribution.
And god(s) help us all when the customers start placing
their orders!

 

[Steven Burn]

SNIP

Steven, you are a *prince*. I've added your info. Thanks.

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004ProgramIndexCD.php

</snip>

Just glad to help )

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)

 

[Genna Reeney]

Proposed Pricelessware 2004 CD

The idea has been raised, SINNER has downloaded the programs. Now the
question is does ACF want to do it. I'm in favor. Here are my thoughts
and suggestions.

Before anything like this is done, I suggest getting specific releases from
all authors to include the programs in a potential CD.

I find it odd that we seem to be slipping into the commercialization of the
Pricelessware List without so much as a peep from anyone.

 

[Ben Cooper]

I find it odd that we seem to be slipping into the commercialization of the
Pricelessware List without so much as a peep from anyone.

What commercialization? Volunteering to burn CDs for free is
commercializing Pricelessware?
I think you're *way* off on this one.

 

[Semolina Pilchard]

Before anything like this is done, I suggest getting specific releases from
all authors to include the programs in a potential CD.

That would be wise.

I find it odd that we seem to be slipping into the commercialization of the
Pricelessware List without so much as a peep from anyone.

I wouldn't regard making the programs available to those on dial-up on
a "costs covered only" basis as commercialisation.

 

[REM]

That would be wise.

I wouldn't regard making the programs available to those on dial-up on
a "costs covered only" basis as commercialisation.

Same here.

It takes me roughly 7 minutes a meg to download. Sometimes it gets as
bad as 10-15 minutes, depending on how busy the other end is. That is
wide open, with no other traffic on my end. I'm in the country, but
not too far out. I'm sure there are those less fortunate than me. Some
lines will only do so-so, regardless of how much spent on a modem.
And some people pay for time online, which is expensive.

I consider it a service to those in the same boat as me, as well as to
the authors who wrote the programs. The author shouldn't have to write
and test the program, buy all of the tools, spend the time and pay for
a way to make the program available alone. A CD helps cut down on
bandwidth for all and makes a great variety of programs available to
people who otherwise might not choose to download them, especially the
big suites.

 

[Steven Burn]

It takes me roughly 7 minutes a meg to download. Sometimes it gets as
bad as 10-15 minutes, depending on how busy the other end is. That is
wide open, with no other traffic on my end. I'm in the country, but
not too far out. I'm sure there are those less fortunate than me. Some
lines will only do so-so, regardless of how much spent on a modem.
And some people pay for time online, which is expensive.

</snip>

My mother is on AOL (same ISP I used to be with) dialup and it used to take
approx 5-10 mins to download a 500kb file, after I gave her my external 56K
V90, it cut down the time by half. However, as you've said, this also
depends on the server itself, and not just the users connection.
(audiofind.ru and grammy.ru are prime examples of excessively slow site's).

I'm now on broadband (though it performs almost as bad as 56K dialup
sometimes) and although the download time's have decreased, it is rather
time consuming when you've got several programs to download, and like
myself, applications/website's to develop/update.

I consider it a service to those in the same boat as me, as well as to
the authors who wrote the programs. The author shouldn't have to write
and test the program, buy all of the tools, spend the time and pay for
a way to make the program available alone. A CD helps cut down on
bandwidth for all and makes a great variety of programs available to
people who otherwise might not choose to download them, especially the
big suites.

</snip>

Oh god, don't mention costs. My personal costs for webspace have increased
considerably over the last 3 years (I have had to upgrade several times and
my costs are now ten times what they were 3 years ago, something I am
actually struggling to afford).

Although CD's help cut down on bandwidth (not a problem for me as mine is
unlimited) and make them available to people that as you've said, would or
may, otherwise choose not to download them (not to mention having a
permenant copy of the program in the event of a hard drive dying or needing
formatting), they don't actually help that much. Most internet users that
I've come accross, have said they are less likely to purchase a CD
containing a program simply because after purchasing the CD, they may find
they don't like the program and have thus, wasted the money (not to mention
the issue surrounding security).

Oks, enough of my rambling......... I've got work to do (

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)

 

[Steve H]

Same here.

It takes me roughly 7 minutes a meg to download. Sometimes it gets as
bad as 10-15 minutes, depending on how busy the other end is. That is
wide open, with no other traffic on my end. I'm in the country, but
not too far out. I'm sure there are those less fortunate than me. Some
lines will only do so-so, regardless of how much spent on a modem.
And some people pay for time online, which is expensive.

I consider it a service to those in the same boat as me, as well as to
the authors who wrote the programs. The author shouldn't have to write
and test the program, buy all of the tools, spend the time and pay for
a way to make the program available alone. A CD helps cut down on
bandwidth for all and makes a great variety of programs available to
people who otherwise might not choose to download them, especially the
big suites.

And same here - it's about as commercial an operation as the members
of a social club chipping in to buy teabags.

Anyway, wasn't this issue thrashed out ages ago?

Regards,

 

[Steven Burn]

And same here - it's about as commercial an operation as the members
of a social club chipping in to buy teabags.

Anyway, wasn't this issue thrashed out ages ago?

</snip>

Apparently it's been brough back to life \

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)

 

[Susan Bugher]

Before anything like this is done, I suggest getting specific releases from
all authors to include the programs in a potential CD.

IMO if the EULA allows redistribution that should be sufficient. That's
the procedure we've followed when a PL program went from freeware to
shareware. "Last freeware versions" of several PL programs that permit
redistribution are being hosted by newsgroup participants.

If redistribution is not specifically allowed, we'll need the author's
permission, but otherwise I don't see the need. Am I missing something?

I find it odd that we seem to be slipping into the commercialization of the
Pricelessware List without so much as a peep from anyone.

I agree with the other responses. Distributing CD's via a person to
person network does not seem commercial to me.

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

I filed a complaint with Hotmail as soon as I heard about it.

Anonymous did not agree to stop using the account so I filed a complaint
- received this answer today.

<q>
I have closed the [ (e-mail address removed) ] account you reported in
accordance with the Hotmail Terms of Use (TOU).
</q>


Susan

 

[Steven Burn]

Anonymous did not agree to stop using the account so I filed a complaint
- received this answer today.

<q>
I have closed the [ (e-mail address removed) ] account you reported in
accordance with the Hotmail Terms of Use (TOU).
</q>

</snip>

Glad to hear it )

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)

 

[Steven Burn]

IMO if the EULA allows redistribution that should be sufficient. That's
the procedure we've followed when a PL program went from freeware to
shareware. "Last freeware versions" of several PL programs that permit
redistribution are being hosted by newsgroup participants.

If redistribution is not specifically allowed, we'll need the author's
permission, but otherwise I don't see the need. Am I missing something?

</snip>

The problem with going specifically with the EULA contained within the
packaged program is that authors have a tendancy to change the EULA from
time to time (I've recently changed my own EULA) and do not want to have to
re-package the program for a simple EULA update (especially if like myself,
there are more than a few to re-package).

Personally I think it's a good idea to check the authors site for the EULA
as it's generally upto date, and in most cases, covers all of their
programs.

I agree with the other responses. Distributing CD's via a person to
person network does not seem commercial to me.

</snip>

I don't personally see it as commercial (on the border perhaps, but not
literal) but, it's easy to see how people can see it as such.

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)

 

[REM]

"Steven Burn" <[email protected]> wrote:

The problem with going specifically with the EULA contained within the
packaged program is that authors have a tendancy to change the EULA from
time to time (I've recently changed my own EULA) and do not want to have to
re-package the program for a simple EULA update (especially if like myself,
there are more than a few to re-package).

Personally I think it's a good idea to check the authors site for the EULA
as it's generally upto date, and in most cases, covers all of their
programs.

The EULA covers the program version that contains it.

In other words, an author cannot release several versions with a EULA
stating they are freeware and then write a new EULA on his site that
states they are now shareware. The same is true for whatever methods
of redistribution are, or are not included within a single version.

It is a legally binding contractual agreement that works both ways
that goes into effect upon release of the program version.