[PL] PL2005 CD - it's time to get serious

[burnr]

I wonder if you have a bad download? Could someone please post the exact
size (in bytes) of the "PL2005CDISO.ISO" or "pl2005cdiso.iso" ISO image
file.

Susan

601,796,608

 

[SYSYPHUS' SISTER]

Hi,

I have once more uploaded the ISO file (this time in ZIP archive to
make sure people download file fully)- can someone please download and
check it the file is OK (it seems to be, all files open perfectly, but
I need someone to look as well). I would appreciate if you report
whether the file is OK.
Link: http://www.essentialpim.com/freeware_newsgroup/pl2005cdiso.zip
Once we confrim file is OK i can re-post it under a new topic, so that
more people could download.

Best regards,
Max
www.essentialpim.com

Max:

I downloaded it-checked it and its missing the same 2 folders I have
posted that I am missing, namely Folder Q (even though its empty)
and File D\Debian in folder D. Perhaps others know why??

SYSYPHUS' SISTER

 

[Maxim]

If I understand it right, it should be empty "Q" folder, since file
list (ProgramList.txt) says:
/files/P/Python/python-2.4.msi
/files/P/Python/python24.chm

/files/R/Ragtime Solo/RagTime_Solo_565_en.exe
/files/R/Ragtime Solo/Docs/About_RagTime_5.zip

I.e. no "Q" applications. Similarly, there is no "Debian" in the file
list.

 

[SYSYPHUS' SISTER]

If I understand it right, it should be empty "Q" folder, since file
list (ProgramList.txt) says:
/files/P/Python/python-2.4.msi
/files/P/Python/python24.chm

/files/R/Ragtime Solo/RagTime_Solo_565_en.exe
/files/R/Ragtime Solo/Docs/About_RagTime_5.zip

I.e. no "Q" applications. Similarly, there is no "Debian" in the file
list.

I understand. I am only forwarding the information that Susan posted
earlier regarding missing files. If this is not the case, then the
original iso file I have been seeding is correct.

I have to admit that I am completely confused with this entire issue.

SYSYPHUS' SISTER

 

[Susan Bugher]

Max:

I downloaded it-checked it and its missing the same 2 folders I have
posted that I am missing, namely Folder Q (even though its empty)
and File D\Debian in folder D. Perhaps others know why??

SYSYPHUS' SISTER

Yes - zipping the file caused those two empty folders to disappear.

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

Lots of stuff clipped here:

SNIP

files\D\Debian\
and Folder Q (even tho empty)

SYSYPHUS' SISTER

It looks like the file you downloaded was zipped at some point.

I posted about the empty folder zip problem in an earlier CD thread. I
had intended to create a zip package with just the folders and found
that I had to furnish a .bat file instead.

I'm not sure if removal of empty folders *always* happens when files are
zipped - but that's the result I saw with the app I used.

It seems fairly certain that's what happened in your case too since
Maxim's zipped file is also missing the same folders.

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

I have once more uploaded the ISO file (this time in ZIP archive to
make sure people download file fully)- can someone please download and
check it the file is OK (it seems to be, all files open perfectly, but
I need someone to look as well). I would appreciate if you report
whether the file is OK.
Link: http://www.essentialpim.com/freeware_newsgroup/pl2005cdiso.zip
Once we confrim file is OK i can re-post it under a new topic, so that
more people could download.

Hi Maxim,

As you have already discovered two empty folders are missing.

Please upload an ISO file that has never been zipped. Zipping the file
apparently changes the ISO. (Zipping removes empty folders.)

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

@corp.supernews.com:

601,796,608

Thanks Burnr.

Susan

 

[Jim]

Yeah, but what do you really know about me? :O)

Enough that I know you do good work, you're good with computers and
you've earned my trust, even though we've never met.

Susan, Steven and all other users of the PL2005CD -
This discussion, as I intended it, is not about people and who did
what, when. But something didn't go as well this year as last year
and the end result is an inability to verify the integrity of the
files on the PL2005CD. For text files, web pages, pictures, audio
files - so what? But for binary executables, a wrong byte or two in a
crucial place can be a snafu of computer crashing proportion.

Program files were aggregated from all over the world wide web, made
into an iso and pulled from one side of the Atlantic to the other (and
further, in some cases). All this moving of files back and forth on
the web introduces potential error, through nobody's fault - it just
the nature of the beast. Using file size, down to the byte is not
accurate enough to ensure that executable binaries are going to run as
designed.

Okay, so something went wrong with generating the md5 checksums this
year - no need to throw the baby out with the bath water. dvdsig.exe
and dvdsig.md5 are tools that need to be included with every years PL
CD. But this year, somebody needs to step up the plate and offer a
one time substitute that does the same job with the same accuracy as
dvdsig.exe. Manually checking individual file sizes is tedious and
inaccurate. In this time of crc32, md5, .sfv, .par and .par2 there
are computer programs out there that are faster and more accurate than
manual comparisons.

I give PL CD's to friends and family. These folks know me, have my
phone number and know where live. They were all happy with the
quantity and quality of software on the PL2004CD. It's a tough act to
follow and I just want to be sure that the PL2005CD lives up to its
reputation.

 

[Mel]

I understand. I am only forwarding the information that Susan posted
earlier regarding missing files. If this is not the case, then the
original iso file I have been seeding is correct.

I have to admit that I am completely confused with this entire issue.

SYSYPHUS' SISTER

Maybe you should verify the .iso you have with the .md5 or .sfv.

f6968581dfefdf2c69cdcf40b8ade216 *pl2005cdiso.iso

; Generated by WIN-SFV32 v1.1a on 2005-01-22 at 09:55.15
;
; 601796608 09:53.16 2005-01-22 pl2005cdiso.iso
pl2005cdiso.iso D642D13F

or Not!

 

[SYSYPHUS' SISTER]

Mel wrote and I snipped:

Maybe you should verify the .iso you have with the .md5 or .sfv.

f6968581dfefdf2c69cdcf40b8ade216 *pl2005cdiso.iso

; Generated by WIN-SFV32 v1.1a on 2005-01-22 at 09:55.15
;
; 601796608 09:53.16 2005-01-22 pl2005cdiso.iso
pl2005cdiso.iso D642D13F

or Not!

601796608 it is. But I already knew that.

SYSYPHUS' SISTER

 

[Guest]

I wonder if you have a bad download? Could someone please post the exact
size (in bytes) of the "PL2005CDISO.ISO" or "pl2005cdiso.iso" ISO image
file.

Susan

Susan, the bad ISO "PL2005CDISO.ISO" I downloaded came in at
601,788,416 bytes. The good ISO "pl2005cdiso.iso" is 601,796,608
bytes.

tim

 

[Mel]

Enough that I know you do good work, you're good with computers and
you've earned my trust, even though we've never met.

Susan, Steven and all other users of the PL2005CD -
This discussion, as I intended it, is not about people and who did
what, when. But something didn't go as well this year as last year
and the end result is an inability to verify the integrity of the
files on the PL2005CD. For text files, web pages, pictures, audio
files - so what? But for binary executables, a wrong byte or two in a
crucial place can be a snafu of computer crashing proportion.

Program files were aggregated from all over the world wide web, made
into an iso and pulled from one side of the Atlantic to the other (and
further, in some cases). All this moving of files back and forth on
the web introduces potential error, through nobody's fault - it just
the nature of the beast. Using file size, down to the byte is not
accurate enough to ensure that executable binaries are going to run as
designed.

Okay, so something went wrong with generating the md5 checksums this
year - no need to throw the baby out with the bath water. dvdsig.exe
and dvdsig.md5 are tools that need to be included with every years PL
CD. But this year, somebody needs to step up the plate and offer a
one time substitute that does the same job with the same accuracy as
dvdsig.exe. Manually checking individual file sizes is tedious and
inaccurate. In this time of crc32, md5, .sfv, .par and .par2 there
are computer programs out there that are faster and more accurate than
manual comparisons.

..md5 files for the .iso & the CD are posted in alt.binaries.freeware
along with the *Freeware* program (no install win32 executable) used to
create them, and which can also be used to verify the data integrity of
your .iso and/or CD.

 

[Mel]

Mel wrote and I snipped:

601796608 it is. But I already knew that.

SYSYPHUS' SISTER

The important part is the checksum not the size on the image!

md5 = f6968581dfefdf2c69cdcf40b8ade216

sfv = D642D13F

but: alas you may not know what a checksum is or how to use it.

 

[Susan Bugher]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:


The good ISO "pl2005cdiso.iso" is 601,796,608

bytes.

Thanks Tim.

Susan

 

[Mel]

Hi,

I have once more uploaded the ISO file (this time in ZIP archive to
make sure people download file fully)- can someone please download and
check it the file is OK (it seems to be, all files open perfectly, but
I need someone to look as well). I would appreciate if you report
whether the file is OK.
Link: http://www.essentialpim.com/freeware_newsgroup/pl2005cdiso.zip
Once we confrim file is OK i can re-post it under a new topic, so that
more people could download.

Best regards,
Max
www.essentialpim.com

Downloaded zip file, unzipped iso file, verified iso (good) with .md5
file (available in alt.binaries.freeware).

Burned ISO to CD, verified CD (good) with .md5 file (available in
alt.binaries.freeware.

 

[Mel]

Yes - zipping the file caused those two empty folders to disappear.

Susan

Not True! Zipping an ISO image which has embedded empty sub-directories
will NOT make them disappear from the ISO image or from the CD burned
from that ISO image when unzipped.

 

[Mark Warner]

I give PL CD's to friends and family. These folks know me, have my
phone number and know where live. They were all happy with the
quantity and quality of software on the PL2004CD. It's a tough act to
follow and I just want to be sure that the PL2005CD lives up to its
reputation.

Those of us in the initial distribution "layer" *do* need to do what we
can to assure that the end product is as advertised. Me, I didn't mess
with the checksum/verification stuff; I knew where it was coming from
(the original source, not one once or twice removed), the file sizes
matched, and the thing WORKED. Oh, and I scanned it with a couple AV
apps, just for the helluvit. That's as far as I went. I'll cop to not
taking the extra steps that I probably should have.

I still don't quite get where the breakdown is/was regarding the
verification, and frankly, I don't care. I'll leave that to those that
know more than me about such things. I was just a conduit. Bottom line
is that this project will get freeware in the hands of the computing
public. And if your friends and family are anything like mine, they
won't have a clue as to what a checksum is. They will assume what you're
giving them is good and clean. While we do need to be careful, in a
project of this nature there is going to be an element of trust
involved. Checking/verifying is fine, to a point. Could a better job be
done next time? Sure, I spose. Bottom line -- again -- is that the thing
WORKS, and in its present iteration is clean. The difficulties with
verification notwithstanding, I think the PL2005CD's reputation will be
fine.

 

[Mel]

Hi Maxim,

As you have already discovered two empty folders are missing.

Please upload an ISO file that has never been zipped. Zipping the file
apparently changes the ISO. (Zipping removes empty folders.)

Susan

Downloaded zip file (From Maxim's Site), unzipped iso file, verified iso
(good) with .md5 file (available in alt.binaries.freeware).

Burned ISO to CD, verified CD (good) with .md5 file (available in
alt.binaries.freeware.

ps: Zipping an ISO does not remove embedded empty folders from the ISO.

 

[jo]

Those of us in the initial distribution "layer" *do* need to do what we
can to assure that the end product is as advertised. Me, I didn't mess
with the checksum/verification stuff; I knew where it was coming from
(the original source, not one once or twice removed), the file sizes
matched, and the thing WORKED.

Me too