Will you upgrade to Windows Vista?

[Spezi]

More bits of possible interest.......

http://exo-blog.blogspot.com/2007/09/what-intel-giveth-microsoft-taketh-away.html

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inqui...irectx-9l-will-be-a-directx-10-for-windows-xp

http://www.windowsxlive.net/index.php?page_id=15

http://createdigitalmotion.com/2007/08/20/opengl-30-is-nearly-here-why-use-directx/

 

[Anon_F]

I've just realised I voted No in this poll

Alf - seventy English pounds or thereabouts for Vista Home Premium

And it's far from perfect but it ain't too shabby

Firstly

2nd £70, is it not cheaper in the good old US of A?

3rd Even i may get round to putting it on my Laptop this year!

 

[floppybootstomp]

From the 2nd link in post # 41:

DirectX 9.0 L is simply a renamed and refurbished DirectX 10 for Windows XP. It will make DirectX 10 games to work on Windows XP.

And games such as the upcoming Crysis won't work on the existing DirectX 9.0 c. they need a DirectX 9.0 L

That, frankly, is a load of old cobblers. I've run Crysis in Direct X 9.0c.

As much as I apreciate The Inquirer, sometimes they really are less than accurate with the truth and could be accused of downright scare-mongering.

I was sceptical of Vista, still am a little, but at least I've tried it. So I think I'm in a better position to comment with my real world experience than lots of folk speculating, posturing and wondering.

All in all my Vista experience so far has been 90% on and I've noticed no slowing down at all compared to Win XP Pro.

As for the latest version of MS Office, I'll have to agree. My twin daughters are both attending Uni atm and they tell me that lots of students are ditching their MS Office 2007 to go back to Office 2003, mostly because it seems MS have completely changed how the whole thing works but also because of performance issues, particularly on low spec laptops loaded with a Vista OS.

If I didn't have a full copy of MS Office 2003, I'd willingly use Open Office.

 

[Spezi]

From the 2nd link in post # 41:



That, frankly, is a load of old cobblers. I've run Crysis in Direct X 9.0c.

As much as I apreciate The Inquirer, sometimes they really are less than accurate with the truth and could be accused of downright scare-mongering.

I was sceptical of Vista, still am a little, but at least I've tried it. So I think I'm in a better position to comment with my real world experience than lots of folk speculating, posturing and wondering.

All in all my Vista experience so far has been 90% on and I've noticed no slowing down at all compared to Win XP Pro.

As for the latest version of MS Office, I'll have to agree. My twin daughters are both attending Uni atm and they tell me that lots of students are ditching their MS Office 2007 to go back to Office 2003, mostly because it seems MS have completely changed how the whole thing works but also because of performance issues, particularly on low spec laptops loaded with a Vista OS.

If I didn't have a full copy of MS Office 2003, I'd willingly use Open Office.

Very valid points.

I have as yet not installed Vista on any of my machines but have played with it a bit on a friends computer.

I wasn't all that impressed and some of its behavior actually annoyed me.

I have been sitting back and reading all the threads pertaining to Vista in a number of places including a local forum.

In my area many techs won't even touch Vista. They tack on a surcharge in the hopes that the person will go elsewhere for service.

I think that for me the writing is on the wall and in time I will migrate all my hardware over to PCLOS since it's gotten to the point where even types like me can figure out Linux and the repositories are getting better and better.

I've actually been reading a thread on a local forum today and basically the gist of it is that some feel that Microsoft has finally gotten to a point where it has shot itself in the foot.

One fellow who has a mate working at Microsoft's X Box division said that old Bill is trying hard to keep PC and X Box separate wherein lies the problem.

Game makers need to appeal to as many buyers as possible and through the recent past those gamers with incentive from Intel and Microsoft have made use of the latest hardware and software to go to greater and greater heights.

Enter X Box and PS3 which has gamers no longer needing a state of the art PC and those with a PC being more or less forced to move on to DX10.

FWIW here's an exerpt from what I've been reading........

Quote:

trying to keep PC and XBox separate, to enhance the marketability of both

I don't even work for them but i don't call it enhanced marketability, I call it being an abusive monopolist. The only game they know how to play. The benefit of a PC is taken away by the X blot. A product that made money being replaced by a product that loses money.. Make sense to you?

Now there is half the product available to the PC and even less than half if independent game developers didn't still support the pc for a slower less performing system than Windows y2k and 3 times the cost just in software. Hardware is easy double the cost to go slower than before.

And the coolest part it's a death spiral. There is no solution to this mess. Release games from the X blot to prop up Vista sales and X blot goes flop. Hold back on DX10 on XP and the game industry will drop DX10 period. Stick DX10 on Xp and Vista goes flop. Nobody is going to pay top dollar for a gaming rig for crippled hand me down game titles from the X blot to play with months later. If they wanted to play it in the first place they went out and purchased a X blot so there is no reason to purchase the crippled ware later to play it on their PC. After all that is said and done there is still Open GL. A superior graphics language to anything Direct ZZZ has to offer. although in covering all their bases they did dumb down the Open GL part in Vista to so it looks that Direct ZZZ 10 is not so abysmal. Point is it will run way faster and look way better on XP.

http://createdigitalmotion.com/2007/08/20/opengl-30-is-nearly-here-why-use-directx/

Now there real money maker has been Orifice. There is not even a point of going out to buy it now. OpenOffice is free and it's just as good and if you need real power you don't even bother with Office period you buy WordPerfect. No silly 64k buffer limits like Orifice. Unlimited spread sheets. unlimited document size. It don't crash when you exceed 65,535 pages or rows, or lines or cells and where ever else that 64k buffer limit shows up.

It's poetic justice. Death BY Microsoft.... Nobody could have pulled it off better, They did it to themselves. People that don't know that yet will go out and buy Vista. Then they'll understand and be ticked cause they realized they they have been had. That's the way to keep customers, tick them off on a expensive mistake. That will keep them coming back.

There is a different problem too a more hidden problem. Support. If MS didn't have a army of people running round fixing there mess they would be no MS period. Nobody is going to hang on a phone for hours to get support from MS when some guy down the street could fix it faster and better. Enter premium fix it charges. People in the know don't have Vista so when a Vista box shows up to get fixed they don't want to fix it so they slap on a premium charge so you will go else where. I've heard people charging $200 dollars a hour extra so you'll go away and they will not have to fix it. They want you to bring it back to Stupid Shop or where ever the hell you bought it and let them deal with the crud. Those companies don't fix it anyway they just reinstall and you'll loose all your hard work probably.

The bill will not stop after you pay the price. If it ever goofs up you'll be paying a lot more to get it fixed. I know a lot of places that will not even touch a Vista repair.

 

[floppybootstomp]

I have as yet not installed Vista on any of my machines but have played with it a bit on a friends computer.

I wasn't all that impressed and some of its behavior actually annoyed me.

Shades of Win 98 to XP here. Whenever MS introduce a new OS, there will be things people say they don't like. Mostly, it's because things are being done differently. Usually (but not always) changes are introduced to benefit the user and within a couple of weeks said user gets used to changes and actually starts to apreciate it.

There will always be those who are cynical of Microsoft's OS's and with good reason. There are many things I loathe about MS, particularly their nannying of users but most of all their bullying, secretive, monopolistic practices. Nothing wrong with getting rich but to mercilessly annihilate/buy out anything remotely resembling competition verges on obscene.

I don't judge MS too harshly on their security issues, their very success (wrongly or rightly gained) has made them a target for hackers and virus writers. Had Apple or Linux Distros enjoyed the same level of success no doubt they'd find themselves targets of the same disruption.

I have been sitting back and reading all the threads pertaining to Vista in a number of places including a local forum.

In my area many techs won't even touch Vista. They tack on a surcharge in the hopes that the person will go elsewhere for service.

Soon there will be a lot of redundant computer techs then. I'm afraid their luddite head-in-the-sand attitude may eventually be their undoing. Like it or loathe it, if one chooses to make one's living fixing computers then one should embrace the new technology.

Common sense, really, that sneering at new things and ignoring it is, imo, a bit pathetic.

The tech who gets to the heart of Vista will be the one who makes the money.

I think that for me the writing is on the wall and in time I will migrate all my hardware over to PCLOS since it's gotten to the point where even types like me can figure out Linux and the repositories are getting better and better.

I've actually been reading a thread on a local forum today and basically the gist of it is that some feel that Microsoft has finally gotten to a point where it has shot itself in the foot.

I like PCLOS, it's my favourite Linux Distro. I'm happy using it for: Web browsing; Office; Media playback; Graphic Editing (Gimp) and that, so far is it. No doubt I will come to use it for audio editing, burning and video editing.

That just leaves games, and that is where Linux loses out.

So, the solution may be to use a Linux Box for everything but games. So what do we use for games then? A PC or a Console?

One fellow who has a mate working at Microsoft's X Box division said that old Bill is trying hard to keep PC and X Box separate wherein lies the problem.

Game makers need to appeal to as many buyers as possible and through the recent past those gamers with incentive from Intel and Microsoft have made use of the latest hardware and software to go to greater and greater heights.

Enter X Box and PS3 which has gamers no longer needing a state of the art PC and those with a PC being more or less forced to move on to DX10.

There is one big thing people overlook - consoles don't use a mouse and keyboard. They use gamepads. The mouse and keyboard give a much greater flexibility than a joypad, especially in fps's. And the quality of games on the PC is still superior. And a lot cheaper, actually, the price of Wii, X-Box & PS3 games is bang out of order. £45.00 for one game? Pffft!

I will agree to an extent about DX10 being forced upon us, again, something about Microsoft I despise, their bullying tactics. And there's only a handful of games that support DX10 anyway. And tbh I'm running Crysis and I couldn't see any difference in how it looks with DX10.

Call of Juarez did look a lot better though with DX10.

And on a personal note I actually hate Sony more than Microsoft so they can put their PS3 where the sun don't shine.

FWIW here's an exerpt from what I've been reading........

I won't reproduce that, it's there above to be read.

Cynical sneery dissing - that's easy to do, I could do that. But I don't - I take a detached look and comment on good and bad.

I've just this very minute discovered that Call Of Duty 2 Multiplayer won't work in Vista which has cheesed me off immensely but I still won't go back to XP on this machine imo that would be retrogressive.

Luckily I have a good machine running XP where I can play CoD2 MP. I also have a machine running Win 98 so I can play those games I like that don't run on XP.

I would sincerely love just to run a Linux Distro, it is becoming a helluva lot easier to use one although I must confess the console commands still leave me confused. Fortunately, most of the time they're not needed.

This is the real world, I can't be bothered to either learn something overly complicated (Linux) or sneer and be retro by dissing Vista, I just move along and use what's there to do what I want to do.

With an open mind.

There is good and there is bad about Vista but if I have to use Windows then I may as well have the latest version.

 

[muckshifter]

I ain't "making money" on Vista, I err, am of the foolish Clan who gives out Free advice ... however, all donations are greatly accepted.


Nice post Floppy ...


I can go back even further Spezi, Win 3.2, Windows for Workgroups, an ambitious name, and the switch to Win 95 ... also the 'nit-pickings' of poor Win ME I never, no really, never, had any real bad problems with the PCs I built & installed Win ME on ... XP has had its fare share of naysayers too. Hell, I even used CP/M, written programs using it, way before MS.

I have also used Linux, for nearly a year, no MS in sight, I got no hair left, some of my 'rantings' can still be found on these forums ... will be a loooong time before I'll be tempted to use Linux on my main system ever again.

As for any Consuls, sorry, can't comment, never owned one, never even used one ... I have a PC, what the hell can I do that I can't do already?

I didn't install Vista blindly, I did my research, knew some of the possible pitfalls, knew all too well that it would take some time for "drivers" & money pinching manufacturers of peripherals to catch up, knew damn well I was in for a 'ride' as with and other major OS 'upgrade' I have ever done before ... been there, seen it, done it ... no tea-shirt needed thanks.

 

[Spezi]

Understandable posts from both of you and I agree for the most part.

I also had no issue with the one WinMe build I did but in hindsight which naturally is always 20/20 it's pretty obvious WinMe was nothing but an interim cash grab to fill the gap before XP's release.

Also to be fair we all have varying wants and desires with me caring not a whit about gaming since a brief venture into the world of COD cured me of that which leaves me with only a need to use Office and the ability to crunch and surf or burn a disk.

My previous expenditures to stay with Microsoft's latest and greatest I felt were justified as I ended up with faster and smoother operating equipment with a few minor changes.

Now however one is looking at fairly major outlay and even though I admit I don't run Vista the fact remains I've read enough reviews and seen enough benchmarks from reputable sites to know that my end result would be spending a whole lot of money to end up with a machine that doesn't really perform any better than what I'm using currently and might in fact even cause glitches as compared to the complete absence of them that I enjoy now.

I used to be terribly afraid of Linux but now view it as more of an enjoyable challenge that will lead me toward operating perfectly functional free software and allow me to upgrade hardware when I feel like it rather than when Microsoft decides I need to which if you think about it is exactly what they do when they cease support for a product.

For me what it then amounts to is MS has lost much of its attraction and if I had to make a wager I'd venture that I'm far from alone.

Somewhere along the line I think a point that has been overlooked is that millions of home users already have far more computing ability than they need since all they do is email and surf and to my thinking that is going to put a bit of a damper on the whole frenzy to always jump on the latest and greatest bandwagon.

Personally I'd be very interested to know just how well Vista has gone over into the corporate world.

As yet I've not encountered a business using it but by comparison when XP came out people swarmed to it in droves and it was very obvious anywhere I went.

 

[floppybootstomp]

Aye, some fair points.

It's true Vista isn't any faster than XP, well not for me anyway, but I'm actually quite relieved after all I'd read it isn't any slower.

To me, Vista may just have the edge but if I had to state a truth I'd say there's no difference in speed.

I do know people who've bought new machines with Vista pre-installed - laptops and desktops - and have wiped their drives and installed XP. I don't know of any busnisses using it yet but I see mostly Schools and Colleges anyway and most of them are still using XP, I must admit.

I don't know how much longer I'll stay with MS's latest offering, I have a feeling their number may be up to a certain degree in the future, as Linux becomes ever more user friendly (just like the migration from DOS to Windows) more folk will probably use a Linux OS.

I do hope I haven't bought a redundant OS, rather like ME was, we shall see. I never did use ME, incidentally, went straight from Win 98 to XP, although I've since used Win 2K briefly.

For now though, I'm mostly happy with Vista, It has a few shortcomings with my hardware and software but I was prepared for that, I've done a fair bit of reading myself.

If somebody made a Games console with this criteria, I'd stick to this for games and use a Linux box for everything else:

1) Keyboard and mouse option
2) Output to VGA monitor as well as composite video and TV
3) Reasonably priced games
4) Easy online connection

 

[Jason.369]

Yes, eventually

I'll upgrade to Vista at some point ...whether that's when I get my next computer or that I upgrade this computer.

 

[richinmalabo]

Not A Chance!!!!

NOT A CHANCE!!!!! I even pay to have my New laptops down graded to XP! VISTA SUCKS!!!

 

[vaio]

Perfectly happy with my copy of Vista, but having said that all I really use computers for is crunching so XP or Linux just as good.

 

[Orakk]

ME2 - Tried it for a month, found it to be a pig, uninstalled forever.

2003 server & XP64 work well enough while I migrate all machines to Linux..

 

[rwillis]

Eventually I'll have to for work purposes, but ATM all the new desktops and lappys they buy come preloaded with Vitsa Pro Premium, and the first thing done with them is a wipe and reload with XP Pro..............

 

[floppybootstomp]

You are all, of course, Phillistines and Luddites.

Vista's working about 95% fine for me.

I do like it, gotta be honest.

But I do have, I suppose, a fairly decent machine (see sig).

Not the best of machines, far from it, but one that will run Vista.

Gotta say though, and this opinion is from the heart not the head - I prefer XP.

Vista looks great, but I can't explain it, there's just a more comfortable feeling about XP.

Like I said, I don't know why, I wish I could put my finger on it.

But - at least I'm trying, unlike you neanderthals

PC LInux OS 2007 anybody?

 

[Orakk]

Neanderthals? Well my favourite tool is a hammer.

 

[vaio]

Vista looks great, but I can't explain it, there's just a more comfortable feeling about XP.

Like I said, I don't know why, I wish I could put my finger on it.

Maybe it's cos you've used XP for xxx years so it's bound to feel more comfy.
No qualms at all about buying another Vista, for my lil media rig....though would probably have to go XP to save buying more ddr ram.

Media rig only has 2 x 256 pc2700

Luddite or no?

I prefer Vista to XP......yet prefer analogue to digital audio.

 

[floppybootstomp]

Maybe it's cos you've used XP for xxx years so it's bound to feel more comfy.

Aye, that very thought occured to me after I posted.

Have been using XP for around seven years so I guess anything new is bound to feel a little strange.

I do like Vista, I dare say soon I'll prefer it to XP.

 

[historian]

Is it still possible to buy a compter,be it a laptop or desk top,with XP as a O.S. If not can a XP program disk be bought and installed over Vista.
historian.

 

[polysynaptic]

waiting for Windows 7

hope it is better then Vista.

 

[chrissycrab]

I wouldn't upgrade to Vista - the problem is that Microsoft seem to be doing pointless changes that create a learning curve without giving any obvious benefits. Also, it's slow and not that stable - I'm always getting submodules crashing or just hanging around for it to load. I think my next upgrade is going to be to Mac or Linux.