Why My Shop No Longer Sells Linux Systems.

[wiltons_pypes]

Reading the recent Dell Linux sidestep made me chuckle because I have
always admired the way Dell has done it's homework and research before
comitting to a business decision.
In fact, I used Dell as one of my sources for a paper I wrote during
my MBA studies.
Sadly, this time it appears that Dell has been pressured by Linux
advocates stuffing the ballot boxes on the Dell websites and have
rushed into a decision to support Linux which they have subsequently
throttled back on.

Dell could have saved themselves a lot of money if they had only asked
me, or one of my friendly competitiors who run small PC shops and who
have been down the Linux road already many times, reaching the same
conclusion each time.

Selling Linux or Linux services to consumers, not businesses, but
consumers is a dead end proposition.
There are not enough customers to make it worth the extra support
costs.
The savings to the customer who doesn't have to purchase Windows is
minimul but the impact can be major.

I have managed to sell several Linux equipped machines to clients I
have never heard from again so it can be done, but the complaints from
other clients who purchased Linux machines far outweigh the positive
experiences.
And like I said, other shops like mine who I am in contact with have
gone through the same scenario with the same results. It boils down to
Linux not being Windows.
People want Windows, they want to use what their friends, coworkers
and family are using.
The ignorance of these same people is what sends Linux into the tank.
Software that is not as good as Windows software.
How come I can't use the tax program my accountant wants me to use?
Why doesn't my day trading program run?
Why can't I view my excercise DVD?
I signed up for a CBT course in cooking and it doesn't run.
I bought a new scanner and can't make it work.
Why doesn't the software my ISP gave me for parental control work?
Why can't I use the tutorial programs my children got at school for
their SAT preparation?

The list is endless.

I suspect that Dell has finally figured this out and that is why they
have retracted their gung ho attitude toward supporting Linux.
Also, the support they are going to offer is on older, less powerful
machines that will not run Vista so Dell thinks they might have found
a way, via Linux, to unload these things.

Dell should have talked to the many independent shops around first
because they, Dell, would have learned that selling and supporting
Linux machines to John Q Public is almost an impossiblity.

It's a Windows world and Linux on John Q Public's desktop is just not
feasable.
Good thing Dell discovered it before they invested too much in Linux.

Wiltons

 

[Michael Jennings]

If MS sticks with their "eat it" policy and drives people to alternative
browsers, newsreaders and office suites, then there would be hope for
Linux *if* that community were less unwilling to tolerate fools. How could
they get to be warm, friendly and outgoing instead of cold uber-geeks?
At least the rep - that would be a miracle. So I seem to agree with you.

 

[B Gruff]

Reading the recent Dell Linux

Oh my word - It's That Troll Again!

 

[ed]

On 6 Mar 2007 11:15:36 -0800

Reading the recent Dell Linux sidestep made me chuckle because I have
always admired the way Dell has done it's homework and research before
comitting to a business decision.
In fact, I used Dell as one of my sources for a paper I wrote during
my MBA studies.
Sadly, this time it appears that Dell has been pressured by Linux
advocates stuffing the ballot boxes on the Dell websites and have
rushed into a decision to support Linux which they have subsequently
throttled back on.

Dell could have saved themselves a lot of money if they had only asked
me, or one of my friendly competitiors who run small PC shops and who
have been down the Linux road already many times, reaching the same
conclusion each time.

Selling Linux or Linux services to consumers, not businesses, but
consumers is a dead end proposition.
There are not enough customers to make it worth the extra support
costs.
The savings to the customer who doesn't have to purchase Windows is
minimul but the impact can be major.

I have managed to sell several Linux equipped machines to clients I
have never heard from again so it can be done, but the complaints from
other clients who purchased Linux machines far outweigh the positive
experiences.
And like I said, other shops like mine who I am in contact with have
gone through the same scenario with the same results. It boils down to
Linux not being Windows.
People want Windows, they want to use what their friends, coworkers
and family are using.
The ignorance of these same people is what sends Linux into the tank.
Software that is not as good as Windows software.
How come I can't use the tax program my accountant wants me to use?
Why doesn't my day trading program run?
Why can't I view my excercise DVD?
I signed up for a CBT course in cooking and it doesn't run.
I bought a new scanner and can't make it work.
Why doesn't the software my ISP gave me for parental control work?
Why can't I use the tutorial programs my children got at school for
their SAT preparation?

The list is endless.

I suspect that Dell has finally figured this out and that is why they
have retracted their gung ho attitude toward supporting Linux.
Also, the support they are going to offer is on older, less powerful
machines that will not run Vista so Dell thinks they might have found
a way, via Linux, to unload these things.

Dell should have talked to the many independent shops around first
because they, Dell, would have learned that selling and supporting
Linux machines to John Q Public is almost an impossiblity.

It's a Windows world and Linux on John Q Public's desktop is just not
feasable.
Good thing Dell discovered it before they invested too much in Linux.

thats the most insane crap i've read. thanks, you just made my month.

i almost spit coffee over my screen reading this.

why dont you talk to Mark Shuttleworth about what the public wants, but
i guess your head is too far up your own ass to see, thats why you're
just a shop with no technical merit.

if you fear the support costs, just refer the client to a company that
*can* support gnu/linux kernels?

it's doesnt matter in the long run, you can just sell computers with no
software, most people pirate windows anyway, but you could just get a
bunch of ubuntu install cds and hand that to the customer as a freebie
(it's free anyway). you cant loose that way. just make it optional...
surely any salesman knows this.

good luck running your business.

 

[john]

Dell could have saved themselves a lot of money if they had only asked
me,

LOL
I think you think a little too much of yourself

 

[yttrx]

Reading the recent Dell Linux sidestep made me chuckle because I have
always admired the way Dell has done it's homework and research before
comitting to a business decision.

You know what I enjoyed most about Dell?

Systematically replacing, over a period of ten months, just under 8,000
Dell 1u piece of shit servers with just under 5,000 IBM 1u blade
servers, and cancelling every contract my old company had with Dell.

It was very highly satisfying.




-----yttrx

 

[chrisv]

Reading the recent

*plonk*

Please don't feed the troll, folks.

 

[Reporter]

Reading the recent Dell Linux sidestep made me chuckle because I have
always admired the way Dell has done it's homework and research before
comitting to a business decision.
In fact, I used Dell as one of my sources for a paper I wrote during
my MBA studies.
Sadly, this time it appears that Dell has been pressured by Linux
advocates stuffing the ballot boxes on the Dell websites and have
rushed into a decision to support Linux which they have subsequently
throttled back on.

Dell could have saved themselves a lot of money if they had only asked
me, or one of my friendly competitiors who run small PC shops and who
have been down the Linux road already many times, reaching the same
conclusion each time.

Selling Linux or Linux services to consumers, not businesses, but
consumers is a dead end proposition.
There are not enough customers to make it worth the extra support
costs.
The savings to the customer who doesn't have to purchase Windows is
minimul but the impact can be major.

I have managed to sell several Linux equipped machines to clients I
have never heard from again so it can be done, but the complaints from
other clients who purchased Linux machines far outweigh the positive
experiences.
And like I said, other shops like mine who I am in contact with have
gone through the same scenario with the same results. It boils down to
Linux not being Windows.
People want Windows, they want to use what their friends, coworkers
and family are using.
The ignorance of these same people is what sends Linux into the tank.
Software that is not as good as Windows software.
How come I can't use the tax program my accountant wants me to use?
Why doesn't my day trading program run?
Why can't I view my excercise DVD?
I signed up for a CBT course in cooking and it doesn't run.
I bought a new scanner and can't make it work.
Why doesn't the software my ISP gave me for parental control work?
Why can't I use the tutorial programs my children got at school for
their SAT preparation?

The list is endless.

I suspect that Dell has finally figured this out and that is why they
have retracted their gung ho attitude toward supporting Linux.
Also, the support they are going to offer is on older, less powerful
machines that will not run Vista so Dell thinks they might have found
a way, via Linux, to unload these things.

Dell should have talked to the many independent shops around first
because they, Dell, would have learned that selling and supporting
Linux machines to John Q Public is almost an impossiblity.

It's a Windows world and Linux on John Q Public's desktop is just not
feasable.
Good thing Dell discovered it before they invested too much in Linux.

Wiltons

Thank you for your words of wisdom.

 

[Guest]

The racist, liar and software thief Gary Stewart (flatfish) nymshifted:

< snip flatfish droppings >

Poor flatfish. Can't ewven think of a new "story"

 

[Reporter]

If MS sticks with their "eat it" policy and drives people to alternative browsers, newsreaders and office suites, then there > would be hope for Linux *if* that community were less unwilling to tolerate fools.

See what the Linux community calls "fools", the business community
(the people making real money on pc hardware and software) calls
customers.

 

[Robert Newson]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

....

Dell could have saved themselves a lot of money if they had only asked
me, or one of my friendly competitiors who run small PC shops and who
have been down the Linux road already many times, reaching the same
conclusion each time.

Selling Linux or Linux services to consumers, not businesses, but
consumers is a dead end proposition.

Perhaps if consumers used the law available to them (in the UK at least) and
complained about unfit-for-purpose computers (made so by Windwos) and took
the retailers to task about supplying unfit-for-purpose goods[1] the
situation may change. If enough consumers complained, demanded and received
compensation, the retailers, I'm sure, could then complain to their
suppliers (the OEMs) about the supply of unfit-for-purpose computers for
compensation. It would soon become even more expensive to ship Windwos
computers than to ship OS-less computers?

[1] The recent contaminated fuel news has exposed that retailers are
responsible for faults caused by unfir-for-purpose goods they sold.[2] If
consumers complained to retailers about the unfit-for-purpose computers
being sold, perhaps something would be done about fit-for-purpose computers
being sold. However, how much culpability can be laid on the consumer if
they didn't follow the advice of the retailer to spend more on making the
computer fit-for-purpose?
[2] The fuel retailers in question are compensating their customers.

There are not enough customers to make it worth the extra support
costs.

Offer to ship OS-free machines then. The support would be for the OS-free
hardware only - /less/ support costs!

As no OS would be shipped *AND* the support costs would be less, the price
should be significantly /less/ than one supplied *WITH* Windwos.

The savings to the customer who doesn't have to purchase Windows is
minimul but the impact can be major.

Actually, there are greater savings than just the purchase price of Windwos
itself, there is also:

the cost of anti-virus, anti-malware, etc software;
the costs of keeping them upto date;
the cost of administrators looking after the machines, etc.

I have managed to sell several Linux equipped machines to clients I
have never heard from again so it can be done, but the complaints from
other clients who purchased Linux machines far outweigh the positive
experiences.
And like I said, other shops like mine who I am in contact with have
gone through the same scenario with the same results. It boils down to
Linux not being Windows.
People want Windows, they want to use what their friends, coworkers
and family are using.

People are sheep. They want Windwos as that's what they think a computer
should be. Also, the software they want to run requires Windwos, but does
it? There are lots of equivalent software for Linux - just because a
program isn't called excel[.exe] it doesn't mean it's /not/ a spreadsheet.

The other problem is supply and demand. There is little demand for Linux
versions of stuff as there is little supply, but there is little supply as
there is little demand. Besides, Windwos came free[3] with the computer.

[3] Actually it's included in the cost, just sheep don't realise it.

The ignorance of these same people is what sends Linux into the tank.
Software that is not as good as Windows software.

That depends what you want to do - I've got much better Linux software than
Windwos software for which I use my computer.

How come I can't use the tax program my accountant wants me to use?

Because he's following the sheep.
Complain to the tax program supplier that they don't make a version for your
computer and request one that does.

Why doesn't my day trading program run?

It probably wouldn't run on one of my /Windwos/ computers here either.
Complain to the software maker that their software doesn't work on your
/chosen/ computer system and request one that does.

Why can't I view my excercise DVD?

Blame software patents.

I signed up for a CBT course in cooking and it doesn't run.

CBT - Compulsory Basic Training for motorcycle learners...
Complain that your CBT course supplier doesn't supply a version for your
computer and request that they supply a version that does work.

I bought a new scanner and can't make it work.

Complain to the scanner manufacturer that it doesn't work with your /chosen/
computer system and request that they supply the necessary drivers.

Why doesn't the software my ISP gave me for parental control work?

Complain to your ISP that the software wasn't designed for your /chosen/
computer system and request one as such.

Why can't I use the tutorial programs my children got at school for
their SAT preparation?

Complain to the school for not providing programs that work with your
/chosen/ computer system and request that they do.

The list is endless.

All generated because people don't complain about the lack of choice and
lack of versions for their /chosen/ computer system. As
suppliers/manufacturers don't get complaints and a request for other
versions, they don't perceive there is a demand and so don't bother with supply.

I suspect that Dell has finally figured this out and that is why they
have retracted their gung ho attitude toward supporting Linux.

It is more likely to be a bit push from another quarter.

Also, the support they are going to offer is on older, less powerful
machines that will not run Vista so Dell thinks they might have found
a way, via Linux, to unload these things.

There's a good reason to go with Linux for a start: less powerful machines
work well with *nix.

Dell should have talked to the many independent shops around first
because they, Dell, would have learned that selling and supporting
Linux machines to John Q Public is almost an impossiblity.

There's the difference: Dell is not a /small/ shop (which I presume is the
size of most independent shops) and so can afford to provide support - they
should have very intimate knowledge of the hardware as they build it.
Supporting them would probably be along the lines of the kind of support
that used to have to be provided:

HelpDesk: Hello, support for Microsoft programs: how can I help you?
Caller: Where's the "ANY KEY" - it says press ANY KEY to continue...

[This request has actually happened.]

Linux is different and administering it is different to Windwos. Windwos
hides so much from the user that doing anything not deigned by MS is a pain,
often harder than doing the same thing under Linux.

The biggest hurdle to overcome is the laziness of people to learning.

It's a Windows world and Linux on John Q Public's desktop is just not
feasable.

Perhaps, but there are also lots of non-Joe Public to whom Dell supplies,
and for whom the requirement for Windwos is limited. These people would be
more than happy with OS-free machines and the savings thereof[4]

[4]I would presume that in the manufacturing plant hard disks arrive and are
put into a machine. After testing the machine an OEM version, or 4, of
Windwos is put onto the hard disks. That is going to cost - not only for
the OS, but also for the labour of doing it, or overseeing it done. Without
an OS being put onto the disk, it *MUST* be cheaper.[5]

[5] Unless the OS supplier has arranged the cost of the OS in tiers that
make it cheaper to buy enough for every machine shipped whether shipped or
not with the OS - in that case, those shipped OS-free would have to
/subsidise/ those with the OS!

Good thing Dell discovered it before they invested too much in Linux.

Let's see: the PC - where did it originate? A: IBM - IBM invested a *LOT*
into the PC with Microsoft OS. What does IBM push now: Microsoft OS or Linux?

 

[gls858]

LOL
I think you think a little too much of yourself

Well he has a MBA, what do you expect

 

[CptDondo]

See what the Linux community calls "fools", the business community
(the people making real money on pc hardware and software) calls
customers.

And all too often treats them like cattle.

Or worse.

 

[Dean G.]

See what the Linux community calls "fools", the business community
(the people making real money on pc hardware and software) calls
customers.

Actually, if you had done your reasearch before posting, you would
have known that the person you are replying to is a member of the
Windows community.

Dean G.

 

[Reporter]

Actually, if you had done your reasearch before posting, you would
have known that the person you are replying to is a member of the
Windows community.

Dean G.

My reply is correct, now matter what "community" anyone comes from.

 

[invader]

Selling Linux or Linux services to consumers, not businesses, but

consumers is a dead end proposition.

I agree. Selling Linux preinstalled on a machine to consumers is just plain
foolish. If the user is not capable of downloading an ISO, burning it, and
installing the OS himself, then he is going to be far happier with Windows
than with Linux. Otherwise you're going to sell them Linux and you're just
going to deal with support calls from a bunch of end-users trying to get
Windows software to work under Linux.

I am a staunch supporter of Linux, but people need to understand what it is
they are doing and why they are doing it. Someone has convinced people that
they can 'stick it to the man' by using Linux instead of Windows. That is not
a valid reason for choosing an operating system. You want the operating
system that best fits your needs, the type of work that you do, is compatible
with the software you use, and fits *your* abilities and skill level.

That being said, I think there is a good reason to sell PCs with no OS
installed for those people who want to install an alternative OS (i.e. Linux)
and don't want to pay Microsoft for an undesired windows license. Nobody
should have to pay Microsoft for an OS they don't intend to use.

 

[Guest]

Actually, if you had done your reasearch before posting, you would
have known that the person you are replying to is a member of the
Windows community.

Dean G.

Actually, flatfish does no "research"
He trolls. He is a windows user

 

[Dean G.]

My reply is correct, now matter what "community" anyone comes from.

You are apparently swimming (or sinking, as the case may be) just a
few hundred meters upstream of the Aswan High Dam*.

Dean G

*Windows - The OS for people deep in 'de Nile.

 

[Dean G.]

Dell could have saved themselves a lot of money if they had only asked
me, or one of my friendly competitiors who run small PC shops and who
have been down the Linux road already many times, reaching the same
conclusion each time.

Why don't you tell us what you "shop" is ? Or is it a complete
fabrication of a sorry little mind ? I see you mention that it is
still small, and it seems bound to stay that way with your attitude
(assuming it exists at all)

Dean G.

Windows - when popularity is more important than competence.

 

[Jeffrey S. Sparks]

I don't see how MS has an "eat it" policy in regards to browsers,
newsreaders, office suites, etc... You have always been able to load any
one you want. If you want to run Corel instead of MS Office, go for it. If
you want to run Mozilla instead of Internet Explorer then go for it.

Jeff