I can accept that answer - thanks for providing it.
You're welcome... at least /some/ common ground
I have no reason to believe they are not there for valid reasons.
One reason I have is that they have, even after such long a time, not been
charged with any wrongdoing.
I don't believe that the children/wife of a terrorist is exactly innocent
when they are aware of what the terrorist is doing. I believe that you
don't have to pull the trigger to be guilty, only assist in any number
of ways - even providing food/shelter is aid to the enemy and should be
dealt with strongly/swiftly.
See, here you're getting somewhere... The various US governments have been
actively involved in all kinds of terrorist movements and activities
throughout the last 50 years. Does that make all citizens terrorists?
If I disagreed with my government I might not give them the benefit of
what I believe is the correct action. [...] I believe we are doing the
right thing, even if it's not sitting well with all the bleeding heart
types and the tin-hatters.
That's a lot of "believing". For me, "believing" is a thing for religion.
In politics and government, I'm a fan of transparency and being held
responsible. The thing is, you don't know what they are doing, because they
are doing it in secret. So how can you say you agree or disagree -- unless
you agree with not knowing what they are doing?
Having been in locations/operations that were not reported properly in
the press, having seen no public reports of some of our actions, having
done things that will not be public, I can see the valid reason that
things happen that the public and "government" don't need to know in
order to keep America the country it is. You can read into that as
needed.
That's irrelevant. You still seem to "believe" that all the detainees are
there because they have been actively involved in criminal activities, and
seem to "believe" that the government would act always justly, and you seem
to believe that the principle of "checks and balances" is really a silly
thing and that the executive branch of the government is good enough to
determine who should be locked up. Well, we just have to agree to disagree
here. I believe in the necessity of "checks and balances" and that the
three branches need to control each other -- and that the government as a
whole needs the control by the people.
I firmly believe that my country, the people detaining the terrorists,
has justification for it and that, based on my personal experiences,
that they are justified in doing it - I also don't believe that you or I
need to know more about it than we already do - there are many instances
when these things, when made public, can be used against us - and
sources of information can be rendered useless once it's known that we
have information.
Do you know of the criteria why people are locked up? I suspect you don't.
What makes you believe they are any better? (And it can't be more than
"believing" -- which I already said that for me it should stay in the realm
of religion, and out of government.)
I've not been given the exact reasons for the specific individuals at
GITMO, but I know of other instances and felt the reasons were
justified. That's good enough for me with the GITMO group.
Depending on where you want to get... it sure isn't targeted on ending
terrorism. (Your "intel" might tell you that
There's more terrorism now
than there was before. And growing. Where I come from, you need to face the
results of what you do; intentions (even if they were good) don't count
that much.
The "more terrorism now" is being blind - once you take the fight to
radicals it's going to be worse until you put a end to it - in the past
we let them come to us on our own territory, not we're in their homes
and they are fighting more/harder.... It only makes sense that there are
more actions now that we're taking the fight to them.
That's not the issue. What they believe is pretty irrelevant -- most of
them live a live few in the "developed world" can imagine, and are easy
victims for all kinds of propaganda -- if it can get strong enough. The
issue is how they got to believe what they believe. And that's something
you seem not capable of understanding.
If you understand why they want ALL American's dead, you start to
understand your enemy, you have to know their motivations before you can
take them on.
Well, if supporting a Saudi-type government is your thing, I think we can
end the conversation right here. This is a hard-core dictatorship, and the
blindness on this eye of quite a number of US citizens is exactly the
I don't do business with them - I went there because we were invited to
bid on a project. As it turned out we decided we were not compatible
with their methods/business practices.
reason why for a large part of the world the biggest threat currently is
the USA. That's not because of some silly anti-Americansm that they got
born with, it's because a lot of people in the US government over the past
50 years have shown exactly this attitude you are presenting, without even
having a clue what they are telling the others with that.
I understand what you're saying, even what we've done to cause peoples
to hate us, but, what is going to change that now?
Sorry... you're probably lost. Not sure there's a way to recovery.
I think there is a way to recover, but it starts with education and
commerce.
