Rude replies

[andy smart]

kurttrail wrote:

Serious question here Kurt, and I'm geniunely interested in your views.

But I happen to be a traditionalist American. I believe in an absolute
right to free speech, and will not stand aside quietly when I see
someone trying to infringe on it.

How does America, with this attitude to free speech also manage to be
the most litigious on Earth? If you have this right to absolute free
speech why do the courts spend so much time processing liable/slander
cases - I never understood how this can happen. If you have the right to
absolute free speech then how can you ever liable or slander somebody?

Does the right to free speech always overide the social need to be
tactful and polite. I know that you belive it does, but is that true of
US society as a whole? I use a lot of message boards/online communities
and of course a lot of the users are Americans; but they are also very
concerned about being tactful and not hurting the feelings of others
when expressing their opinions. Would you say you or they comply with
the ideas of the American majority on this?

 

[Jone Doe]

Thanks Kelly. A welcome break.

 

[Leythos]

I believe in an absolute
right to free speech, and will not stand aside quietly when I see
someone trying to infringe on it.

Free speech is about the message and getting it to the public, right?

How does being rude equate to the right to free speech - since the same
message can be presented without being rude, what does being rude add to
the message?

Why should being rude be tolerated when the message could be given
without disrespect?

(don't take these examples as directed at you): I could say "I disagree
with you", or I could say "you're a fricking moron butt baby that's
completely wrong" - both messages say the same thing, but one is rude
and one is polite.

As an American Military person, I served my country for your rights, and
I love free speech, but why do people feel they have to be rude and
disrespectful when talking with someone?

 

[andy smart]

Free speech is about the message and getting it to the public, right?

How does being rude equate to the right to free speech - since the same
message can be presented without being rude, what does being rude add to
the message?

Why should being rude be tolerated when the message could be given
without disrespect?

(don't take these examples as directed at you): I could say "I disagree
with you", or I could say "you're a fricking moron butt baby that's
completely wrong" - both messages say the same thing, but one is rude
and one is polite.

This would be my view - I never see the need to be rude myself.

As an American Military person, I served my country for your rights, and
I love free speech, but why do people feel they have to be rude and
disrespectful when talking with someone?

I suspect because either a) they think it's clever, or sometimes b)
because, and I think this is worth considering, they have one of the
conditions (like some of the autism spectrum disorders or tourette's)
where they genuinely don't realise that their response is inappropriate.

 

[Leythos]

Does the right to free speech always overide the social need to be
tactful and polite. I know that you belive it does, but is that true of
US society as a whole? I use a lot of message boards/online communities
and of course a lot of the users are Americans; but they are also very
concerned about being tactful and not hurting the feelings of others
when expressing their opinions. Would you say you or they comply with
the ideas of the American majority on this?

I'm not Kurt, but as an American, who is not an Attorney, I can honestly
say that the vast majority of people I have contact with speak to others
as they would like to be spoken too. This means that most people, ones
that have self-respect, will speak in a polite manner unless completely
ticked-off and will try to maintain composure even when steamed.

The right to free speech is pure, but it's been shown that using it to
incite action against people is not legal - the same about factual
statements - if you make a false statement, it's not covered as free
speech.

Most of the people I experience being rude as part of their normal daily
manner are one of several types, but most of them fall into the
delusional or uneducated (threatened by something about you) or the
trolls (lonely and with no social skills).

 

[kurttrail]

Actually I think one point that Neil made in his post is true, while
the majority of people here are helpful, tactful and considerate,
there are people here who post offensive, insulting and defamatory
replies which IMHO fall far short of what I was bought up to consider
acceptable.

So you want sheltered upbringing imposed on all! Fascist!

Kurt makes the point that:
"This is the virtual wild west, and if you are as unarmed as you
appear, then you should cower in the corner with the womenfolk and
watch house the gunslingers fight it out" - which is the kind of
attitude to which I think Neil is alluding.

So what is the harm of that?

It may come as news to
many here, but a lot of 'civilians' regard computer users as rude,
intollerant, arrogant and with minimal social skills, and the way
some people carry on here will only re-inforce that in somebody who
is having problems, hears that on usenet they can get advice from
experts for free, and then gets treated like dirt for asking.

Man, what a friggin' pansy your mama raised!

Worth
also noting that the gunslingers in the wild west only killed people,
it was the ordinary people with civilised manners who actually
created anything in the west.

Hence I called it a "virtual wild west," since you can't get phyiscally
killed in cyberspace, only in the real world.

Standing back and waiting for the abuse to come my way next ......

F*^k you! If you feel abused by some mere words, then that is your
problem, which I believe was David's point. The abuse is in your head.

I was brought up, not to give a sh*t about the nasty things people say
to me. Have you ever heard of, "Stick and Stones may break my bones,
but WORDS will never hurt me?!"

Stop acting like a little girl freightened by shadows in the dark! Me
telling you to bugger off, is not the end of civilization as we know it.
If you want something to get your panties in a twist, then stand up and
speak out about what is going on in the Sudan, and how little is being
done there because they have no oil, or other natural resource that can
be exploited by the rest of the world! Stand up and speak out about the
abuse at GITMO, people being denied their human right to due process
under the law! Stand up and speak out about the real human on human
violence!

I'm excercising my right to free speech. If you don't like it, kill me,
because that is the only way you can stop me from being true to myself.

"Give Me Liberty, or Give Me Death!"

"This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the
night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man."

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
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[Leythos]

Stand up and speak out about the
abuse at GITMO, people being denied their human right to due process
under the law!

I would rather see people stand up and take action against the morons
asking for rights for terrorists, the terrorists that would kill the
people seeking to help them get rights, if they were able too.

What about the abuses those terrorists committed against the world? Why
are you not demanding justice for the victims of terrorists? Where was
the due process for all the people, all over the world, killed by
terrorists?

Ask yourself this - would you want them freed if they were going to be
released into your local community and possibly living next door to you?

 

[kurttrail]

kurttrail wrote:

Serious question here Kurt, and I'm geniunely interested in your
views.


How does America, with this attitude to free speech also manage to be
the most litigious on Earth?

America no longer has this attitude about free speech, and hasn't since
for a very long time.

If you have this right to absolute free
speech why do the courts spend so much time processing liable/slander
cases - I never understood how this can happen. If you have the right
to absolute free speech then how can you ever liable or slander
somebody?

I believe in free speech as written in the Constitution, unfortunately
the government doesn't.

Does the right to free speech always overide the social need to be
tactful and polite.

My view, yes. Even under the US government view, yes. Otherwise Dick
Cheney would have been impeached when he told a Senator to go F*^k
himself last year.

Of course had you had your way, Dick would have been!

And I voted for Kerry, but Dick had every right to express himself.
That Dick is a dick is no surprise to me. That I'm an a**hole is not a
shocker either.

I know that you belive it does, but is that true
of US society as a whole?

Unless or until the American Taliban, the Christian Right, gets its way.
There is no law that prohibits rudeness. And as I demonstrate, I can
follow the rules here regarding profane speech, as I mung up the most
profane ones, yet still get my point across.

I use a lot of message boards/online
communities and of course a lot of the users are Americans; but they
are also very concerned about being tactful and not hurting the
feelings of others when expressing their opinions.

Good for them. That would be their choice. And I'm not trying to stop
you or anyone one else from posting politely. I'm not a fascist trying
to impose my sensibilities onto others. I leave that to the PC police!

Would you say you
or they comply with the ideas of the American majority on this?

Majority rule is nothing by the tyranny of the Majority!

And that's why America doesn't have a government based on a true
democracy, but a constitutional republic. America's Founding Fathers
were well aware that a true democracy was really the tryanny of the
majority over the minority.

Unfortunately, modern day Rightards have forgotten that lesson, and
think that since they hold a majority of the government, that they have
the right to bully the minority.

Like all fascist eventually tyranize the minority of society, so does
the majority rule.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
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"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[andy smart]

America no longer has this attitude about free speech, and hasn't since
for a very long time.




I believe in free speech as written in the Constitution, unfortunately
the government doesn't.




My view, yes. Even under the US government view, yes. Otherwise Dick
Cheney would have been impeached when he told a Senator to go F*^k
himself last year.

Of course had you had your way, Dick would have been!

And I voted for Kerry, but Dick had every right to express himself.
That Dick is a dick is no surprise to me. That I'm an a**hole is not a
shocker either.




Unless or until the American Taliban, the Christian Right, gets its way.
There is no law that prohibits rudeness. And as I demonstrate, I can
follow the rules here regarding profane speech, as I mung up the most
profane ones, yet still get my point across.




Good for them. That would be their choice. And I'm not trying to stop
you or anyone one else from posting politely. I'm not a fascist trying
to impose my sensibilities onto others. I leave that to the PC police!




Majority rule is nothing by the tyranny of the Majority!

And that's why America doesn't have a government based on a true
democracy, but a constitutional republic. America's Founding Fathers
were well aware that a true democracy was really the tryanny of the
majority over the minority.

Unfortunately, modern day Rightards have forgotten that lesson, and
think that since they hold a majority of the government, that they have
the right to bully the minority.

Like all fascist eventually tyranize the minority of society, so does
the majority rule.

Thanks

 

[kurttrail]

I'm not Kurt, but as an American, who is not an Attorney, I can
honestly say that the vast majority of people I have contact with
speak to others as they would like to be spoken too. This means that
most people, ones that have self-respect, will speak in a polite
manner unless completely ticked-off and will try to maintain
composure even when steamed.

The right to free speech is pure, but it's been shown that using it to
incite action against people is not legal - the same about factual
statements - if you make a false statement, it's not covered as free
speech.

Most of the people I experience being rude as part of their normal
daily manner are one of several types, but most of them fall into the
delusional or uneducated (threatened by something about you) or the
trolls (lonely and with no social skills).

Are we back in in your Bible Study Class. Most of the people I know are
educated enough to be able to handle coarse language. And are not
shocked at al over it.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Lou]

Free speech is about the message and getting it to the public, right?

How does being rude equate to the right to free speech - since the same
message can be presented without being rude, what does being rude add to
the message?

Why should being rude be tolerated when the message could be given
without disrespect?

(don't take these examples as directed at you): I could say "I disagree
with you", or I could say "you're a fricking moron butt baby that's
completely wrong" - both messages say the same thing, but one is rude
and one is polite.

As an American Military person, I served my country for your rights, and
I love free speech, but why do people feel they have to be rude and
disrespectful when talking with someone?

--

Leythos, you do not appreciate rude speech: "Why should being rude be
tolerated ....." Yet not only do you tolerate the following, you have
advocated same on prior posts to this newsgroup:

1. Treating 5 year olds who commit acts society deems crimes in the
same manner as adults are treated - lock them up or do away with them.

2. Treating the insane who commit acts society deems crimes in the
same manner as adults are treated with one caveat - treat them with
drugs first, then lock them up or do away with them.

3. Public hangings in the town square as a means of deterring crime.

Might I suggest that you re-examine your priorties. I cannot express
my opinion of you (Leythos) better than others in this newsgroup have
done. You (Leythos) are the excrement of the human race - a piece of
sh*t.

Lou

 

[kurttrail]

Free speech is about the message and getting it to the public, right?

Not the way it is written in the First Amendment, not that our
government ever followed Free Speech in the manner it was written.

How does being rude equate to the right to free speech - since the
same message can be presented without being rude, what does being
rude add to the message?

Is there some law against rudeness that I'm unaware of? And who is the
arbiter of what is rude? The Christian Right?

Why should being rude be tolerated when the message could be given
without disrespect?

Who said you had to tolerate it? You have a block senders list, use it!
No one is forcing you to read anything you don't want to read. Take
matters into your own hands and block my post from your view!

(don't take these examples as directed at you): I could say "I
disagree with you", or I could say "you're a fricking moron butt baby
that's completely wrong" - both messages say the same thing, but one
is rude and one is polite.

LOL! I hardly ever give a blanket statement that someone is wrong
without explaining why I feel that why. To me the false civility of
saying "I disagree with you" without explaining why, is much more
reprehensible that telling someone that they are a moron and here is why
you are a moron!

As an American Military person, I served my country for your rights,
and I love free speech, but why do people feel they have to be rude
and disrespectful when talking with someone?

I don't feel I "HAVE TO." I just say things as I see it. True to
myself, not to what you think is civil.

--
Peace!
Kurt
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[kurttrail]

This would be my view - I never see the need to be rude myself.


I suspect because either a) they think it's clever, or sometimes b)
because, and I think this is worth considering, they have one of the
conditions (like some of the autism spectrum disorders or tourette's)
where they genuinely don't realise that their response is
inappropriate.

LOL! Ever consider that is just the way they are. Those that get upset
over mere words, in my opinion, are the ones with the problem!

I am not asking you to conform to my manner, am I?

But that is exactly what you are asking of me, to conform to you view of
what is polite!

--
Peace!
Kurt
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[kurttrail]

Thanks

You're Welcome.

--
Peace!
Kurt
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[kurttrail]

Leythos, you do not appreciate rude speech: "Why should being rude be
tolerated ....." Yet not only do you tolerate the following, you have
advocated same on prior posts to this newsgroup:

1. Treating 5 year olds who commit acts society deems crimes in the
same manner as adults are treated - lock them up or do away with them.

2. Treating the insane who commit acts society deems crimes in the
same manner as adults are treated with one caveat - treat them with
drugs first, then lock them up or do away with them.

3. Public hangings in the town square as a means of deterring crime.

Might I suggest that you re-examine your priorties. I cannot express
my opinion of you (Leythos) better than others in this newsgroup have
done. You (Leythos) are the excrement of the human race - a piece of
sh*t.

Lou

And he has every right to be as he is, and to be ridiculed for it.

--
Peace!
Kurt
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microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

I would rather see people stand up and take action against the morons
asking for rights for terrorists, the terrorists that would kill the
people seeking to help them get rights, if they were able too.

Based on the assumption that all held at GITMO are terrorists! How do
you know that? Just because the Government told you they were. And yet
even that very same Government has release some of those held at GITMO!
So that should show you that not all held at GITMO are really
terrorists!

So how do we prove that people are actually guilty of something in our
society. That's right, in a court of law! Our constitution guarantees
the right to a quick and speedy trial, to be able to confront one's
accuser!

These are the very principles that men and women have fought to protect
over more than 2 1/4 centuries! To put it into terms that you Rightards
can understand:

YOU ARE EITHER AN AMERICAN, A BELIEVER IN THE INALIENABLE RIGHTS OF
LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, *OR* YOU ARE A FASCIST!

What about the abuses those terrorists committed against the world?

Try and convict them, according to American Principles, DUE PROCESS OF
LAW! Don't stoop to their level and work outside of our constitution!
Don't become the fascists that they claim we are!

Why are you not demanding justice for the victims of terrorists?

I have!

http://www.kurttrail.com/kblog/kblogarch/00000011.php

Where was the due process for all the people, all over the world,
killed by terrorists?

You are stupid. It is in bringing the terrorists to justice under the
law, not outside of the law. When we exact vengeance outside of the
law, we have become just like the terrorists!

Ask yourself this - would you want them freed if they were going to be
released into your local community and possibly living next door to
you?

Nothing is perfect. OJ is loose in society though I believe he is a
killer, but I don't lose any sleep over it. I stand a better chance
slipping in the shower, than being a victim of terrorism, even if every
single one of the detainees were released in Southern Florida today.

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[Thomas Ereston]

In

Yeah, I understand where he is coming from, and that is why I stood up
to him. I will never back down to the PC police. Oh, they mean well,
just like the Nazis thought that they were doing good for their
society. But I happen to be a traditionalist American. I believe in
an absolute right to free speech, and will not stand aside quietly
when I see someone trying to infringe on it.

"Live Free or Die!"

The biggest danger to the freedom of speech comes from those who misuse
it!

 

[GF]

In

The biggest danger to the freedom of speech comes from those who misuse
it!

No....it's those who want to interpret what construes that misuse.

 

[kurttrail]

In

The biggest danger to the freedom of speech comes from those who
misuse it!

LOL! If it can be "misused," then it is not free in the first place.

The biggest danger to free speech are those that are afraid to exercise
it, those that remain silent as free speech is limited over and over
again!

--
Peace!
Kurt
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microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
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