S
Steve N.
typical said:
I don't either, but I think that was a really stupid thing for you to
say. I don't think Canadians are generally stupid, either, except maybe
for you.
Steve N.
I don't either, but I think that was a really stupid thing for you to
say. I don't think Canadians are generally stupid, either, except maybe
for you.
Steve N.
S
Steve N.
J. D. B. said:
I have known many Indian people personally. They probably speak better
English than you and I do and they are very charming and have a rich and
very interesting culture and history.
I've made a few tech support calls in the recent past and had the
pleasure of talking to some folks in India. I had no problem
understanding them and they promptly and professionally solved my issues.
The worst thing about tech support calls is the hold time, not language
issues.
Steve N.
C
Charlie Tame
Hehe, I must admit I find it amusing that these folks are actually "Trained"
in American accents and expressions.
Caught one last week, credit card company... he must have picked up my
English accent and asked me if I had a favorite Soccer team... well I never
was much of a Soccer fan so I told him that so he then asked if I followed
Cricket. I said "You're in India aren't you?". He said "Yes, can you tell
from my accent?"
I said no, but to an American a cricket is usually an insect that chirps...
which basically leaves Australia, India, Pakistan or the West Indies,
Americans generally avoid discussing the game because they don't understand
the rules any better than I do
Very pleasant guy, most helpful and polite.
Yes I do think exporting jobs is ultimately a bad thing, but you can't blame
the folks at the other end who are simply trying to do them.
Personally I think any company using offshore call centers should be
required to report this to the government so the offshore company can be
inspected to ensure that their employees and conditions are comparable to
those of domestic companies. If they don't comply then it's unfair
competition and they don't get the business. It would discourage some of the
offshoring and ultimately reduce the disparity between the operator's costs
and those of a domestic operator. That way at least if it doesn't reduce job
losses it becomes a respectable form of foreign aid instead of the present
purely charitable giveaways, many of which fall into the wrong hands anyway.
Charlie
in American accents and expressions.
Caught one last week, credit card company... he must have picked up my
English accent and asked me if I had a favorite Soccer team... well I never
was much of a Soccer fan so I told him that so he then asked if I followed
Cricket. I said "You're in India aren't you?". He said "Yes, can you tell
from my accent?"
I said no, but to an American a cricket is usually an insect that chirps...
which basically leaves Australia, India, Pakistan or the West Indies,
Americans generally avoid discussing the game because they don't understand
the rules any better than I do
Very pleasant guy, most helpful and polite.
Yes I do think exporting jobs is ultimately a bad thing, but you can't blame
the folks at the other end who are simply trying to do them.
Personally I think any company using offshore call centers should be
required to report this to the government so the offshore company can be
inspected to ensure that their employees and conditions are comparable to
those of domestic companies. If they don't comply then it's unfair
competition and they don't get the business. It would discourage some of the
offshoring and ultimately reduce the disparity between the operator's costs
and those of a domestic operator. That way at least if it doesn't reduce job
losses it becomes a respectable form of foreign aid instead of the present
purely charitable giveaways, many of which fall into the wrong hands anyway.
Charlie
U
Uncle Joe
NO!!!! Not when Americans are being put out of work by the millions.
I worked for a Fortune 100 company which ran the 45th largest data center
the USA. The CIO got the bright idea to bring in almost a thousand Indians
to learn our systems for three months. They flew in on three 747s and stayed
at company expense at the nicest hostels in the area.
We were threatened with immediate termination if any of the Indians reported that
we were unwilling to cooperate, or if we gave them bogus information. At the
end of three months, 460 American programmers, systems analysts, and
product managers were terminated in favor of an Indian company performing
my former company's IT maintenance offshore in India. The company liked the
idea that because of the time difference, the company could uplink via satellite to
India changes and, overnight, the Indians would complete the changes.
460 Americans with mortgages, kids in colleges, expensive cars, and unwavering
loyalty to the company were terminated in favor of Indians who work for $10 a
day. We all thought our futures were secure and we produced an outstanding
network product for our subsidiary companies. Suddenly, pushed out on the
street, many of us were 45+ years of age and unable to find jobs paying even half
of what we had been earning. I was so stressed and furious that I nearly went
postal. The executives just weren't worth me going to jail over. On termination
day, two my friends went home and shot themselves to death. I had a nervous
breakdown. I refuse to have anything to do with India--including calling MS's
call center.
And American manufacturing capacity is a shell of its former capacity. We were the
arsenal of democracy during World War II, producing prodigious quantities of planes,
tanks and boats. We'd be lucky to produce 1,000 tanks a year now.
American manufacturing can't compete with the average Chinese factory wage of
$0.60 an hour (with no beenefits.) Our government wants to further expand free trade
zones to impoverished central and South American countries were the average wage is
$0.25 an hour. That's great for Wal-Mart and Target but it is slowly dooming the
American economy. Many of the free trade avocates don't realize that their jobs
could easily be next. Ditto for all the people happily shopping at Wal-Mart. Will
they still love Wal-Mart when their jobs go away, too?
I'm utterly opposed to free trade zones and free markets. China and Japan certainly
don't cut us any slack. Their tariffs on American-made goods are astronomical. So
we keep incurring these huge trade deficits. Someday, we've got to pay all that back.
If I were president, I'd swap twenty hydrogen bombs for the $162 billion deficit.
"There, now we're even." (Smile.)
"David Candy" <.> wrote in message Don't you believe in free markets?
I worked for a Fortune 100 company which ran the 45th largest data center
the USA. The CIO got the bright idea to bring in almost a thousand Indians
to learn our systems for three months. They flew in on three 747s and stayed
at company expense at the nicest hostels in the area.
We were threatened with immediate termination if any of the Indians reported that
we were unwilling to cooperate, or if we gave them bogus information. At the
end of three months, 460 American programmers, systems analysts, and
product managers were terminated in favor of an Indian company performing
my former company's IT maintenance offshore in India. The company liked the
idea that because of the time difference, the company could uplink via satellite to
India changes and, overnight, the Indians would complete the changes.
460 Americans with mortgages, kids in colleges, expensive cars, and unwavering
loyalty to the company were terminated in favor of Indians who work for $10 a
day. We all thought our futures were secure and we produced an outstanding
network product for our subsidiary companies. Suddenly, pushed out on the
street, many of us were 45+ years of age and unable to find jobs paying even half
of what we had been earning. I was so stressed and furious that I nearly went
postal. The executives just weren't worth me going to jail over. On termination
day, two my friends went home and shot themselves to death. I had a nervous
breakdown. I refuse to have anything to do with India--including calling MS's
call center.
And American manufacturing capacity is a shell of its former capacity. We were the
arsenal of democracy during World War II, producing prodigious quantities of planes,
tanks and boats. We'd be lucky to produce 1,000 tanks a year now.
American manufacturing can't compete with the average Chinese factory wage of
$0.60 an hour (with no beenefits.) Our government wants to further expand free trade
zones to impoverished central and South American countries were the average wage is
$0.25 an hour. That's great for Wal-Mart and Target but it is slowly dooming the
American economy. Many of the free trade avocates don't realize that their jobs
could easily be next. Ditto for all the people happily shopping at Wal-Mart. Will
they still love Wal-Mart when their jobs go away, too?
I'm utterly opposed to free trade zones and free markets. China and Japan certainly
don't cut us any slack. Their tariffs on American-made goods are astronomical. So
we keep incurring these huge trade deficits. Someday, we've got to pay all that back.
If I were president, I'd swap twenty hydrogen bombs for the $162 billion deficit.
"There, now we're even." (Smile.)
"David Candy" <.> wrote in message Don't you believe in free markets?
E
Edward W. Thompson
snipMax Wachtel said:
I thought you Americans are/were the chsampions of the capitalist system.
Has something changed?
E
Edward W. Thompson
snipR. McCarty said:
1. Quality of work: in many instances the quality of work of 'offshore
individuals' exceeds that of 'domestic workers'. Take a look around you at
the high quality goods on sale from overseas.
2. Poor quality work occurs everywhere, even in the USA.
3. Placing workers in a position where they are ill equiped to deal with
customers for whatever reason is a function of management, in this case US
management.
4. Speaking English with an accent/inflection? Many Americans speak that
way and are not easily inderstood by us English speakers.
5. It appears your problem was due to lack of communication between the
US company and the offshore company employees. Doesn't that indicate fault
at the US end?
You a racist? Nah!
P
PA Bear
Despite your xenophobia*, was your problem resolved?
Did it occur to you that she may have thought you had an accent? That she
might hate you for your ignorant attitude?
Did it occur to you that she may have thought you had an accent? That she
might hate you for your ignorant attitude?
M
Mistoffolees
mikesg wrote:
From what part of West Virginia did this person say he
came?
From what part of West Virginia did this person say he
came?
P
Plato
You made, tho somewhat exaggerated, some very, very good points.
For example. Lets say you have a lawn service business, a tree trimming
service, a roofing service, a home siding business. Personally I have
dealt with all of the above in the last few years as I finially saved up
enough money to do the repairs on my 250 year old house that should have
been done 20 years ago before I even moved in.
All those businesses employed "foreign" workers. They show up every day
on time, dont take "smoking" breaks, and are glad to earn the $125/day
in wages. Their wifes often work in warehouses picking/packing or in
local textile manufacturers where they sew all day long just like my
grandmothers did when they came the to the usa from Poland.
Often, they share a home, one family upstairs, one downstairs. Perhaps
rent out the basement to a few new arrivals.
Hablo español, and I tip well, so I've learned a bit about the labor
force.
The business owners say that without their current source of "imported"
labor, they couldn't survive in the business. Not because of the wages
they pay, but they simply cant get American workers to actually work.
When I was 12 I started a lawn service business. After school for the
next 6 years I worked till dark, ate dinner, watched TV for a bit then
did my homework. I did that only because I wanted to be independent and
have the money to purchase anything I wanted.
Oddly tho, I havn't been able to teach my son the same "values". He'd
rather complain about having no money then to work for it. I have no
idea where that thought process came from. Heck, I never even gave him
an allowance.
Have Americans become too fat and lazy? Does our society, as you say,
promote the "hand everything to me free" mentallity? Do high schools and
parents say "go to college" so you can get an easy desk job so you dont
have to do "hard work"? I dont know.
Or, have American workers decided that they dont have to compete for
work, and somehow it's some "guaranteed" benefit of being an American?
I was driving around the other day with a Mexican buddy and each time we
passed a home that was being worked on, he said, take a good look at
who's working, he said watch out, look who you'll soon will be working
for.
For example. Lets say you have a lawn service business, a tree trimming
service, a roofing service, a home siding business. Personally I have
dealt with all of the above in the last few years as I finially saved up
enough money to do the repairs on my 250 year old house that should have
been done 20 years ago before I even moved in.
All those businesses employed "foreign" workers. They show up every day
on time, dont take "smoking" breaks, and are glad to earn the $125/day
in wages. Their wifes often work in warehouses picking/packing or in
local textile manufacturers where they sew all day long just like my
grandmothers did when they came the to the usa from Poland.
Often, they share a home, one family upstairs, one downstairs. Perhaps
rent out the basement to a few new arrivals.
Hablo español, and I tip well, so I've learned a bit about the labor
force.
The business owners say that without their current source of "imported"
labor, they couldn't survive in the business. Not because of the wages
they pay, but they simply cant get American workers to actually work.
When I was 12 I started a lawn service business. After school for the
next 6 years I worked till dark, ate dinner, watched TV for a bit then
did my homework. I did that only because I wanted to be independent and
have the money to purchase anything I wanted.
Oddly tho, I havn't been able to teach my son the same "values". He'd
rather complain about having no money then to work for it. I have no
idea where that thought process came from. Heck, I never even gave him
an allowance.
Have Americans become too fat and lazy? Does our society, as you say,
promote the "hand everything to me free" mentallity? Do high schools and
parents say "go to college" so you can get an easy desk job so you dont
have to do "hard work"? I dont know.
Or, have American workers decided that they dont have to compete for
work, and somehow it's some "guaranteed" benefit of being an American?
I was driving around the other day with a Mexican buddy and each time we
passed a home that was being worked on, he said, take a good look at
who's working, he said watch out, look who you'll soon will be working
for.
G
Guest
Dear All Frustrated People
This is not the question of Indian or American. But skilled and the unskiled
one. America is also prividing such foolish help centres. The example is
Macromedia.
a month back i called Macromedia product help center and finsihed with
disappointment. This was a direct product help center. I was surprised by
theier product knowledge. Whoops u can get better people in India.
I m from India and ofcourse i understand your problem. When some1 needs help
and the other end is just with a blank mind. But there is nothing to blame
India.
I think this is the habit of Americans of blaming the world over. Sometimes
they blame China then Iraq, then India then Russia....and so on. This is true
dear Aliens will land first on America.
Pls get rid of this and come positive with the world.
Whtever is happening is coz of the business profits in USA so blame yr
people not India.
This is not the question of Indian or American. But skilled and the unskiled
one. America is also prividing such foolish help centres. The example is
Macromedia.
a month back i called Macromedia product help center and finsihed with
disappointment. This was a direct product help center. I was surprised by
theier product knowledge. Whoops u can get better people in India.
I m from India and ofcourse i understand your problem. When some1 needs help
and the other end is just with a blank mind. But there is nothing to blame
India.
I think this is the habit of Americans of blaming the world over. Sometimes
they blame China then Iraq, then India then Russia....and so on. This is true
dear Aliens will land first on America.
Pls get rid of this and come positive with the world.
Whtever is happening is coz of the business profits in USA so blame yr
people not India.
G
Guest
Dear All Frustrated People
This is not the question of Indian or American. But skilled and the unskiled
one. America is also prividing such foolish help centres. The example is
Macromedia. A month back i called Macromedia product help center and
finsihed with disappointment. This was a direct product help center. I was
surprised by
theier product knowledge. Whoops u can get better people in India.
I m from India and ofcourse i understand your problem. When some1 needs help
and the other end is just with a blank mind. But there is nothing to blame
India.
I think this is the habit of Americans of blaming the world over. Sometimes
they blame China then Iraq, then India then Russia....and so on. This is true
dear Aliens will land first on America.
Pls get rid of this and come positive with the world.
Whtever is happening is coz of the business profits in USA so blame yr
people not India.
This is not the question of Indian or American. But skilled and the unskiled
one. America is also prividing such foolish help centres. The example is
Macromedia. A month back i called Macromedia product help center and
finsihed with disappointment. This was a direct product help center. I was
surprised by
theier product knowledge. Whoops u can get better people in India.
I m from India and ofcourse i understand your problem. When some1 needs help
and the other end is just with a blank mind. But there is nothing to blame
India.
I think this is the habit of Americans of blaming the world over. Sometimes
they blame China then Iraq, then India then Russia....and so on. This is true
dear Aliens will land first on America.
Pls get rid of this and come positive with the world.
Whtever is happening is coz of the business profits in USA so blame yr
people not India.
L
Leythos
I setup two off shore development centers, I have setup local
development centers, I have employed workers from all over the world in
various I.T. positions - other than wages, the single difference I've
seen is the ability to think outside of the box.
With IT workers I've not seen where anyone works harder/less, not seen
where anyone wants less money in the US, found that the foreign workers
communication and understanding ability are often a problem - if you
don't understand that they don't understand something, and it's often
very hard to know if they don't understand, then you will get exactly
what they thought you wanted even thought it's not want you asked for.
I've not see any of the teams (US or not) complain about working long
hours (as they all get paid for it), complain about each other (as they
are all highly skilled and have respect for all people).
What I see happening is that the IT infrastructure around the world is
reaching a point where we've made it possible to remotely do anything.
That means I that the wages and value around the world will be leveling
to some standard and that any country that doesn't level off with the
average will be unable to compete - it's going to happen, it's already
started (see India IT workers now making $25/hr and asking for more)...
I
Incognitus
Jitendra said:Dear All Frustrated People
This is not the question of Indian or American. But skilled and the
unskiled
one. America is also prividing such foolish help centres. The example is
Macromedia. A month back i called Macromedia product help center and
finsihed with disappointment. This was a direct product help center. I was
surprised by
theier product knowledge. Whoops u can get better people in India.
I m from India and ofcourse i understand your problem. When some1 needs
help
and the other end is just with a blank mind. But there is nothing to blame
India.
I think this is the habit of Americans of blaming the world over.
Sometimes
they blame China then Iraq, then India then Russia....and so on. This is
true
dear Aliens will land first on America.
Pls get rid of this and come positive with the world.
Whtever is happening is coz of the business profits in USA so blame yr
people not India.
Your typing of the English language needs improvement. How's that for being
positive?
M
MAP
i don't know about microsoft but I certainly think they are stupid.
That is why we American's basically rule the world?
That is why we American's basically rule the world?
M
MAP
mike is right-
Let's elect "Jeb Bush" next time and keep this trend going!
Let's elect "Jeb Bush" next time and keep this trend going!
M
MAP
Both my wife and me work for a US Airline,last Feb. we both took a 33%
paycut and are pension was handed over to the Government. At the same time
the SOB's running the Co. gave themselfs a bonus and made cash deposits to
their own pension accounts.
Now I understand "peasant" uprisings followed by mass purgings in the days
of old.
paycut and are pension was handed over to the Government. At the same time
the SOB's running the Co. gave themselfs a bonus and made cash deposits to
their own pension accounts.
Now I understand "peasant" uprisings followed by mass purgings in the days
of old.
A
Alias
MAP said:
For some reason my last post was censored. I suspect it was because I
used the word "sh*t".
Anyway, plurals don't use apostrophes, stupid.
The USA is on the decline, just like Rome. Bush & Co. are trying to rape
the world, not control it and it will backfire on them. The USA now
enjoys the worst reputation overseas that ever before. As an American, I
am ashamed.
Bush fixes elections and then bombs the shi*t out of civilians to
promote his "democracy and freedom" while he systematically strips
Americans of the civil rights.
Advice to young people: learn Chinese.
Alias
G
Guest
Knowing a good english doesnot mean u r positive...does it mean so?
Being positive is something related to ur mind...
Being positive is something related to ur mind...
K
Ken Blake, MVP
Edward said:
Double yes! This is the most significant point of all.
Yes, again. The support calls where I've had the most difficult times
understanding the person on the other end have been with domestic support
people, not overseas ones.
Yes.
All very well said.
G
Guest
Please take out this thing from your mind that Americans rule the world. I
agree USA is too far but the other world is coming fast now...the Euro and
RIC (Russia India and China) are doing good....
agree USA is too far but the other world is coming fast now...the Euro and
RIC (Russia India and China) are doing good....