anti virus software

[Tom]

I have to admit I've been using a home computer on the web for about 20
years (although back then I don't think it was called the WWW), without
any
virus software and have never gotten a virus.

But I would never recommend to the average user to NOT use an AV, as most
don't know what it means to be cautious while operating a PC, especially
while browsing the WWW a great deal. They typically do not get involved in
learning the "ins and outs" of the whole PC, and are susceptible to such
attacks.

For me personally, I also don't use an AV at all, and I don't get viruses,
but I also know how to not get them, and take care of them anyway. AV
programs are just too invasive for my liking, especially anything from
Norton and McAfee (which are almost more destructive than helpful to ones
PC, IMHO!).

 

[Unknown]

Two honest and obvious intelligent users Don & Tom. Wouldn't it be great if we
could educate the average user? I try teaching all my friends and relatives.
None of us use AV programs.

 

[Unknown]

Your message is absolute garbage. I do not 'tell' people to NOT use an AV
program.
How the heck you equate not using an AV program with jumping out of the way of
a train
is so idiotic it borders on insanity.

 

[Unknown]

It is very clear that the poster POP and your defense for anti virus programs
is insults and name calling. And you question MY intelligence?

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings --

Do you have short term memory problems, or are you deliberately
lying? Let me refresh your memory, just in case it's the former:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: "Unknown" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: anti virus software
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Best is to use none at all. ......

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: "Unknown" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: anti virus software
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Message-ID: <%[email protected]>
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X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
X-Trace: newssvr28.news.prodigy.com 1087310267 ST000 67.37.129.211
(Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:37:47 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:37:47 EDT
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Xref: TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers:119547

You.ve got to be STUPID to use an AV program. They only causes
problems. .....

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And then there was this out-right falsehood:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: "Unknown" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: anti virus software
Lines: 48
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.37.129.211
X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
X-Trace: newssvr28.news.prodigy.com 1087309953 ST000 67.37.129.211
(Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:32:33 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:32:33 EDT
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
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r28.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Xref: TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers:119546

They cause far more problems than they prevent.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If that's not telling people not to use antivirus software, then
I'd have to conclude that your knowledge of the English language is
even more limited than your demonstrated lack of computing knowledge.


Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

Your responses were garbage. And not using AV is like dodging a
train....with luck, you'll be okay....but there is always the chance that
the train will win.
The point was not equating train dodging to not using AV, but that telling
others who do not know better that dodging trains is "okay" is socially
irresponsible.

You obviously have delusions of grandeur and your holier-than-thou attitude
grows tiresome.

Time for you to shut the f**K up.


Bobby

 

[Unknown]

Holier than thou you brought up I didn't. I never even hinted as such. Can't
you talk in a civil manner and not be so ostentatious? You are still a fear
monger. You teach fear rather than computer operations. I never mentioned
anything about dodging trains, you did. Only you with your fear would state
running a computer without AV protection is like dodging a train. How
ridiculously immature.

 

[Unknown]

You apparently interpret any 'suggestion' as an order. I do not, and of course
cannot, 'tell' people what to do. I can however try to teach them, via
suggestions, how to run their computers smoothly and without fear of getting a
virus. THEY must make the decision whether or not to try it.
As for 'they cause more problems than they prevent' don't you read these
newsgroups?
How many people have problems simply updating due to some software?

Greetings --

Do you have short term memory problems, or are you deliberately
lying? Let me refresh your memory, just in case it's the former:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: "Unknown" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: anti virus software
Lines: 51
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.37.129.105
X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
X-Trace: newssvr28.news.prodigy.com 1087228054 ST000 67.37.129.105
(Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:47:34 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:47:34 EDT
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Best is to use none at all. ......

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: "Unknown" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: anti virus software
Lines: 38
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
Message-ID: <%[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.37.129.211
X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
X-Trace: newssvr28.news.prodigy.com 1087310267 ST000 67.37.129.211
(Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:37:47 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:37:47 EDT
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:37:47 GMT
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r28.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Xref: TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers:119547

You.ve got to be STUPID to use an AV program. They only causes
problems. .....

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And then there was this out-right falsehood:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: "Unknown" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: anti virus software
Lines: 48
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.37.129.211
X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
X-Trace: newssvr28.news.prodigy.com 1087309953 ST000 67.37.129.211
(Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:32:33 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:32:33 EDT
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
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r28.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Xref: TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers:119546

They cause far more problems than they prevent.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If that's not telling people not to use antivirus software, then
I'd have to conclude that your knowledge of the English language is
even more limited than your demonstrated lack of computing knowledge.


Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH

Your message is absolute garbage. I do not 'tell' people to NOT use an AV
program.
How the heck you equate not using an AV program with jumping out of the way of
a train
is so idiotic it borders on insanity.

 

[Guest]

Well you are probably in a minority tending to one then.
I can't find any actual statistics, but if you go a google on this subject,
there are HUNDREDS of articles talking about viruses being received in
attachments from known sources. What about Mellissa? That sent out viral
attachments from the infectee's addressbook - ie a KNOWN source to the
recipients. That's how it spread so widely in the first place - because
people opened an infected attachment from a KNOWN source without thinking!

 

[Don]

I never open any attachments from any source, known or otherwise.

 

[Unknown]

I do Don, from my friends and relatives. But, they all use the firewall and
keep their systems updated. None of us have ever gotten a virus.

 

[Unknown]

Hundreds of articles? There are about 70,000,000 computers being used just in
the US.

 

[NellieBly]

I'm not reading this entire thread..only to say you may not have installed
an anti-virus program but your ISP provider (if they are reputable) more
than likely had it included with their program.

Go to the stupid.arguments.newsgroup for further follow-up guys!

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I don't totally disagree with what "Unknown" is saying.

I don't believe that "Unknown" is suggesting that everyone should run
without virus software, but stating the fact that "Unknown" has not yet
gotten a virus and neither has most of their friends/relatives that they
communicate with often gotten them because either they too are computer
literate (more so than most of the populace) or at least follow the advice
that "Unknown" or other "in the know" people have given them.

I know that almost all AV software do use a decent amount of resident memory
when they are running.
I know that there are reports of people having trouble doing one thing or
another because of AV software being incompatible in some way with something
else.
I know that most of the viruses I have seen people catch have been from
opening email attachments, not following common sense rules like using a
firewall or running un-researched software on their machines.

But - on the counter-point - although education is the best way to stop
having to rely on things like AntiVirus software - most people don't use
common sense when they use their computers. It's a tool to do their taxes
easier, write up their grocery list, download free "neat" things, find old
friends on the web, see pictures of their grandkids on, research their
favorite topics.. And the problem is they don't CARE how the computer runs
until they notice it is running badly (like it crashes or shuts down every
30 minutes..) and some of them, even then, would prefer NOT to know what is
wrong and give it to someone else to repair.

"Unknown" is correct in that if you only accept/open attachments from people
you know and trust to be doing the same common sense things you are
(firewall, not opening junk attachments, not forwarding crap emails - like
scams and chain letters, not signing up for random free things on the web,
not installing whatever you think sounds cool, etc), the chances of you
getting a virus in that way is like winning a lotto.. (or any game of
chance) - slim to none. The chance is never eliminated, however - since you
don't control all the factors - but it is so slim that you don't have to
worry about it.

However - even never have gotten a virus - I see people get them all the
time - people like I described earlier. They go to work and expect that
their network admin would never let Aunt Fran or Uncle Bobby send them a
virus via attachment (even though they are getting it via their hotmail
account where their admin has no control, or yahoo, or petscentral, or
hushmail or the hordes of others that may or may not be known about so
thereby not blocked at work.) and so they download it. They don't care
about security, they don't know what a computer virus is beyond, "Bad and
the computer guy sometimes has to take my computer and they look pissed when
they do", and they have this false sense of security - so they download it
and BAM - the antivirus software pops up telling them something they don't
understand so they get all worried and call their computer tech asking what
"quarantined" means, and how can they get the file their Uncle/Aunt sent
them? Those same people then go home, come back the next day and track down
their computer admin, wondering if they could help them because their home
PC sure is acting funny since they downloaded the other file from their Aunt
last night..

You can TRY to educate them, but all they want is a quick fix and get on
with their lives.. Not to mention that it better automatically "improve
itself" so they never have to worry about this issue again.

So, I still and will continue recommending Firewall, Updates/Patches,
AntiVirus, AntiSpyware and AntiSpam software I have tested in various
environments, researched and found to be somewhat reliable to the people who
come around wondering/whining about "Why their computer got slow? or "Why
does it shut down with something about 'NTAuthority'?" or "Who are these
Nigerians and is their money real?" or "Why do all these porn advertisements
come up when I surf the web?"

Why? Well, I try to throw a little education in my advice. I figure they
came for advice, they must know they did something wrong, so I might as well
use their vulnerable state as a learning tool, but I also think their want
to learn is usually limited - they want enough to fix it and move on - but
if you can tell them they need this all, the chances of them coming back in
a week is slimmer. Not only that - but if they read what I give them,
listen to what I tell them, they might actually, in following the advice,
learn something and come to the same point "Unknown" has gotten to - you
never know...

 

[Frank Saunders, MS-MVP]

I'm afraid you can't educate ANY of the users, other than
the types who would follow a prejudiced moron like you. You
will be exposed anywhere you spread your hate and prejudiced
teenie minded sloth in public. Go back and look for that
used sock - you need it.
Oh, and if you think you're pissing anyone off, you
arean't: Children like you aren't taken very seriously. I
am glad however that you are not my neighbor.
Pop

Since he is basically correct, ad hominem arguments such as yours reveal
your unwillingness to think and address the real issue.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP, IE/OE
Please respond in Newsgroup. Do not send email
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

 

[Frank Saunders, MS-MVP]

Let's add narcissistic idiot to the list of mornonic
statements. If it's double jointed it won't need a woman,
but at least it won't reproduce that way. Broadcasting
ignorance is the act of the ignorant and the coward, as
shown by the nick.

Gee, how helpful.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP, IE/OE
Please respond in Newsgroup. Do not send email
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

 

[Frank Saunders, MS-MVP]

You are missing the point entirely. How do you KNOW 100% that an
attachment you get from a KNOWN source is virus free without scanning
it yourself? Your KNOWN source may be infected without them knowing
it - it happens all the time!

That is so simple:
If I don't know 100% that it's safe I make sure the sender sent it on
purpose after verifying it before he(she) verified it. While I run an AV, I
don't trust it anymore that I trust my own methods. I just use the AV
program to make sure I remember to think.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP, IE/OE
Please respond in Newsgroup. Do not send email
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

 

[Gordon]

I do Don, from my friends and relatives. But, they all use the firewall and
keep their systems updated.

Umm - a "firewall" does NOT stop OR detect viruses.

 

[Gordon]

I don't totally disagree with what "Unknown" is saying.

"Unknown" is correct in that if you only accept/open attachments from people
you know and trust to be doing the same common sense things you are
(firewall, not opening junk attachments, not forwarding crap emails - like
scams and chain letters, not signing up for random free things on the web,
not installing whatever you think sounds cool, etc), the chances of you
getting a virus in that way is like winning a lotto..

Umm - that's how Mellissa spread so quickly - people opening infected
attachments that came FROM PEOPLE THEY KNEW.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I don't totally disagree with what "Unknown" is saying.

"Unknown" is correct in that if you only accept/open attachments
from people you know and trust to be doing the same common sense
things you are (firewall, not opening junk attachments, not
forwarding crap emails - like scams and chain letters, not signing
up for random free things on the web, not installing whatever you
think sounds cool, etc), the chances of you getting a virus in that
way is like winning a lotto..

Umm - that's how Mellissa spread so quickly - people opening infected
attachments that came FROM PEOPLE THEY KNEW.

Gordon,

Please read the way I phrased the whole statement. I did not say just from
people they knew, I said "from people they know and trust to be doing the
same common sense things you are.." and I continue to list those common
sense things. This group of people would likely be smaller than your
average circle of family and friends by far - unless your whole family
happened to consist of computer admins. Also, please do not take parts of
my post and cut them out of context.. The post is a whole point, not many
small ones. The whole post is as follows:

----
I don't totally disagree with what "Unknown" is saying.

I don't believe that "Unknown" is suggesting that everyone should run
without virus software, but stating the fact that "Unknown" has not yet
gotten a virus and neither has most of their friends/relatives that they
communicate with often gotten them because either they too are computer
literate (more so than most of the populace) or at least follow the advice
that "Unknown" or other "in the know" people have given them.

I know that almost all AV software do use a decent amount of resident memory
when they are running.
I know that there are reports of people having trouble doing one thing or
another because of AV software being incompatible in some way with something
else.
I know that most of the viruses I have seen people catch have been from
opening email attachments, not following common sense rules like using a
firewall or running un-researched software on their machines.

But - on the counter-point - although education is the best way to stop
having to rely on things like AntiVirus software - most people don't use
common sense when they use their computers. It's a tool to do their taxes
easier, write up their grocery list, download free "neat" things, find old
friends on the web, see pictures of their grandkids on, research their
favorite topics.. And the problem is they don't CARE how the computer runs
until they notice it is running badly (like it crashes or shuts down every
30 minutes..) and some of them, even then, would prefer NOT to know what is
wrong and give it to someone else to repair.

"Unknown" is correct in that if you only accept/open attachments from people
you know and trust to be doing the same common sense things you are
(firewall, not opening junk attachments, not forwarding crap emails - like
scams and chain letters, not signing up for random free things on the web,
not installing whatever you think sounds cool, etc), the chances of you
getting a virus in that way is like winning a lotto.. (or any game of
chance) - slim to none. The chance is never eliminated, however - since you
don't control all the factors - but it is so slim that you don't have to
worry about it.

However - even never have gotten a virus - I see people get them all the
time - people like I described earlier. They go to work and expect that
their network admin would never let Aunt Fran or Uncle Bobby send them a
virus via attachment (even though they are getting it via their hotmail
account where their admin has no control, or yahoo, or petscentral, or
hushmail or the hordes of others that may or may not be known about so
thereby not blocked at work.) and so they download it. They don't care
about security, they don't know what a computer virus is beyond, "Bad and
the computer guy sometimes has to take my computer and they look pissed when
they do", and they have this false sense of security - so they download it
and BAM - the antivirus software pops up telling them something they don't
understand so they get all worried and call their computer tech asking what
"quarantined" means, and how can they get the file their Uncle/Aunt sent
them? Those same people then go home, come back the next day and track down
their computer admin, wondering if they could help them because their home
PC sure is acting funny since they downloaded the other file from their Aunt
last night..

You can TRY to educate them, but all they want is a quick fix and get on
with their lives.. Not to mention that it better automatically "improve
itself" so they never have to worry about this issue again.

So, I still and will continue recommending Firewall, Updates/Patches,
AntiVirus, AntiSpyware and AntiSpam software I have tested in various
environments, researched and found to be somewhat reliable to the people who
come around wondering/whining about "Why their computer got slow? or "Why
does it shut down with something about 'NTAuthority'?" or "Who are these
Nigerians and is their money real?" or "Why do all these porn advertisements
come up when I surf the web?"

Why? Well, I try to throw a little education in my advice. I figure they
came for advice, they must know they did something wrong, so I might as well
use their vulnerable state as a learning tool, but I also think their want
to learn is usually limited - they want enough to fix it and move on - but
if you can tell them they need this all, the chances of them coming back in
a week is slimmer. Not only that - but if they read what I give them,
listen to what I tell them, they might actually, in following the advice,
learn something and come to the same point "Unknown" has gotten to - you
never know...