[PL] 2004 VOTE DISCUSSION: INTERNET

[Susan Bugher]

I don't think
it's necessary to include empty categories with an explanation as to why
there are no programs in it.

I agree.

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[Susan Bugher]

What I mean is to update the nominations page,
but do get a column in there to indicate whether a program was or was not
a final victor. Viewed by category, one could see when no program of a type
made it to PL, together with which ones were nominated.

The Nominations page *will* show the PL2004 picks - just as soon as I
can get to it. (The column showing the vote counts will disappear in the
final version.)

It would be good to see various related enhancements to the PL2004
nominations page, having it reside as a useful reference.

Most PL2004 nominations will have program descriptions - rather than
just a URL - IMO it should be a useful reference.

The categories are and subcategories could use some revision
(understatement) . . .

*If* that happens IMO a category index for the nominations page would be
helpful too.

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[Harvey Van Sickle]

I don't think it's necessary to include empty categories with an
explanation as to why there are no programs in it.

[/QUOTE]

I agree.

It is entirely reasonable for the Pricelessware lists to be selective
rather than comprehensive: to allow only the top X% of programs
which have earned their place, and that the final list doesn't even
recognise that "failed" categories were even considered.

That said, the present arrangement of the final list is, to me, quite
misleading: the number and detail of the sub-categories implies --
again, this is a personal view -- that at least one serious intent of
the list is to be comprehensive rather than selective. (That is, that
it intends to offer a port of first- middle- and last- call to find
recommendations for any -- and all -- types of freeware programs.)

I would say that if the list ignores categories which fell by the
wayside, then the sub-headings should be abandoned in favour of a
simple alphabetical list under the main heading.

The survival of detailed sub-categories in the final list projects a
false image of a comprehensive, rather than a selective, list.

 

[John Fitzsimons]

Susan Bugher wrote:

Should it really be out if it is the only one in its category?

Especially when it happens to be an add-in for Forte Agent which makes the list
this year?

I'd recommend to keep it.

Ditto.

Re-ordering the Agent/Free Agent newsgroups list is something that a
very large number of Agent/Free Agent users want to do. Probably the
most popular Agent/Free Agent utility.

Regards, John.

 

[dszady]

[PL] 2004 VOTE DISCUSSION: INTERNET

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004INTERNET.htm

Please review the capabilities of all the programs on this list
before posting an objection to the exclusion of a program. The
list is separated into subcategories to make it easier to read.
Many subcategories overlap to a greater or lesser degree.

Many of you have greater knowledge of the programs on this page
than I do. Comments are welcome.

I'm not convinced Weather Watcher is not Spyware after watching it
pinging out more than my required 15 minutes per update. It uses two
..exe files to do this.
1 cent worth

 

[dszady]

5 newsreaders? There is a clear choice.

Second
Throw in an off-line newreader for one apiece.

 

[dszady]

I have no need of an FTP server, but I'm surprised to see that
Filezilla rdidn't make it. The client is outstanding, does no acf
regular use Filezilla's server?

I use it for METAR updates and I like it.

 

[Terry]

Ditto.

Me too

Re-ordering the Agent/Free Agent newsgroups list is something that a
very large number of Agent/Free Agent users want to do. Probably the
most popular Agent/Free Agent utility.

I would add AgtFind and Agent Post as being invaluable Agent add ons

 

[dszady]

jason <[email protected]>:

Bookmark Wizard does only one thing. Processes your favorites
folder, and makes it into a customized html file. As to your .url
files, your only option is to choose to ignore some folders in
that set directory. Btw, Bookmark Wizard won't go anywhere else on
your drive; it restricts to the location of your favorites folder.

None of the above is criticism. We appreciate straightforward,
direct- purpose tools. But the issue is that it's area of
functionality is very tiny, making it odd for it to cancel out, by
one vote, another
tool which is multiplex by compare.

Small correction.(sorry)
Bookmark Wizard will do other directories if you type them in. And
experimenting with it just now it does't do Mozzila-type Bookmarks. It
should be called "Favorites Wizard.
Round file.

 

[dszady]

ROFOLOL!

Outlook Express coming out ahead in a popular vote, who would have
thought this when hearing the ferociously vocal MS-bashing
minority.

I wonder how they are going to make this fit with their set vision
of the world: in a popular vote where money and MS clout had no
say, users actually liked the MS product better. Imagine that.

All 19 votes were from MS-users
Actually, I think most of use started out using QE and went out
searching for something better. Most people use and more posts are made
from OE in this group.
"MS-Bashers" are just a very vocal minority. They can't help it. They
have a right to be

 

[dszady]

I'm probably splitting hairs here, but don't you have to "buy"
Windows in order to run OE? Wouldn't that move OE out of the
freeware realm?

Damn. I forgot I'm using Win98 to run Xnews.
Sorry. It's OT now.

 

[Joseph S. Agrillo]

[PL] 2004 VOTE DISCUSSION: INTERNET

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004INTERNET.htm

Please review the capabilities of all the programs on this list before
posting an objection to the exclusion of a program. The list is
separated into subcategories to make it easier to read. Many
subcategories overlap to a greater or lesser degree.

Many of you have greater knowledge of the programs on this page than I
do. Comments are welcome.

Susan


PopupStopper (Popup Killer) 9 (won)
Popup Manager (Popup Killer) 6 (out)

I use Popup Manager on 98SE and W2k. It works perfect for me. Pop-Up
Stopper runs in the system tray,
some of us hate to have anything in the system tray except the clock and
maybe the volume control. I have a knpb on my speakers so I don't even
keep that there. 9 to 6 is close. I would have thought that more people
hate popups than that.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

Damn. I forgot I'm using Win98 to run Xnews.
Sorry. It's OT now.

Feel free to run Xnews under Linux, using Wine. It's not legal to do
that with OE.

 

[Susan Bugher]

There is a good reason to have two newsreaders, one offline and one
online. I'd put the top three on the list, with Gravity/Super
Gravity having only one entry.

Stand back and look at the *big* picture. We have many newsreaders and
Email clients that are very popular:

Mozilla (Browser) 26 (won) - also eMail client and Newsreader with
offline capability

Pegasus Mail (Email Client) 23 (won)
FoxMail (Email Client) 19 (won)
Calypso (Email Client) 12 (won)
Scribe (Email Client) 7 (out)

Outlook Express (Email And News Client) 19 (won)
Pimmy (Email And News Client) 14 (won)
Sylpheed (Email And News Client) 8 (out)
Noworyta News Reader (Email And News Client) 6 (out)

Xnews (Newsreader) 44 (won)
Free Agent (Newsreader) 20 (won)
Super Gravity (Newsreader) 17 (won (23 comb))
Gravity (Newsreader) 14 (won (23 comb))
40tude Dialog (Newsreader) 14 (won)
Pan (Newsreader) 5 (out)


Should we throw out everything but Mozilla and Xnews? Those are the
*top* vote getters with eMail and Newsreader capabilities.

Look at the *big* picture in terms of the popular vote:

A program that received:

25 votes is in the top 9 percent.
24 votes is in the top 9-10 percent.
23 votes is in the top 10-11 percent.
22 votes is in the top 11-13 percent.
21 votes is in the top 13-15 percent.
20 votes is in the top 15-17 percent.
19 votes is in the top 17-20 percent.
18 votes is in the top 20-21 percent.
17 votes is in the top 21-23 percent.
16 votes is in the top 23-25 percent.
15 votes is in the top 26-29 percent.
14 votes is in the top 29-33 percent.
13 votes is in the top 33-36 percent.
12 votes is in the top 36-41 percent.
11 votes is in the top 41-46 percent.
10 votes is in the top 47-53 percent.

IMO selecting PW (top picks) *and* Honorable Mentions in a category with
many popular programs is more logical than eliminating high vote getters
on a *wholesale* basis.

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

We vote for programs, not categories. If programs fail to get
enough support from the members of the group, then the programs
should not be included. The categories are only used to list the
programs and make it easier to find them.

This is an excellent point, and easy to lose track of (as I have to
admit I had). Elsewhere in these threads, I've said I think some apps
should not be listed because they did not get nearly as many votes as
other apps in the category; I've now changed my mind about that. I
would like to see the 12-vote threshold a bit higher, but ISTM that 12
is ok too.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Agreed.

Hi Tiger,

You've advocated keeping a program that one person in 20 voted for *and*
throwing out programs that 1 person in 5 voted for. I'm in favor of a
broad selection *but* part of the PW selection process *is* choosing
programs *favored* by alt.comp.freeware participants . . .

The *best* program is the world is valueless to a person if it doesn't
have a capability s/he wants and/or needs. IMO programs that occupy a
*very* small niche should not selected as Pricelessware. They may be
invaluable to some but they are not *favored* by the group as a whole.

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[Tiger]

You've advocated keeping a program that one person in 20 voted for
*and*
throwing out programs that 1 person in 5 voted for. I'm in favor
of a
broad selection *but* part of the PW selection process *is*
choosing programs *favored* by alt.comp.freeware participants . .
.

The *best* program is the world is valueless to a person if it
doesn't have a capability s/he wants and/or needs. IMO programs
that occupy a *very* small niche should not selected as
Pricelessware. They may be invaluable to some but they are not
*favored* by the group as a whole.

Like this one?

nnCron LITE (Reminders; Scheduler) 6 (won)

 

[Susan Bugher]

[PL] 2004 VOTE DISCUSSION: INTERNET

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004INTERNET.htm

PopupStopper (Popup Killer) 9 (won)
Popup Manager (Popup Killer) 6 (out)

I use Popup Manager on 98SE and W2k. It works perfect for me. Pop-Up
Stopper runs in the system tray,
some of us hate to have anything in the system tray except the clock and
maybe the volume control. I have a knpb on my speakers so I don't even
keep that there. 9 to 6 is close. I would have thought that more people
hate popups than that.

IMO this is a case where it's helpful to stand back and look at *all*
the programs in a *Category* - popup killers are not the only apps that
offer popup control - IIRC:

Mozilla Firebird (was Phoenix) (Browser) 41 (won)
Mozilla (Browser) 26 (won)
K-meleon (Browser) 14 (won)

The Proxomitron (Content Filter) 43 (won)

probably others as well . . .

check the vote counts for *those* programs . . .

then look at these again:

I am more inclined to omit PopupStopper than I am to include Popup
Manager . . .

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[Susan Bugher]

Like this one?

nnCron LITE (Reminders; Scheduler) 6 (won)

Yup - I've seen several *very* recent favorable mentions - nnCron is new
to the nomination list - has unique capabilities - IMO the user base is
growing - I think it deserves a spot.

MyAlbum squeaked onto the PL last year with 2 votes - this year it
received 9 votes. FotoAlbum, now disqualified, showed a similar
increase. There are other examples . . .

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[dszady]

[PL] 2004 VOTE DISCUSSION: INTERNET

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004INTERNET.htm

I'm not convinced Weather Watcher is not Spyware after watching it
pinging out more than my required 15 minutes per update. It uses two
.exe files to do this.
1 cent worth

<quote from Author to me in an e-mail>>
Only the "DL.EXE" handles downloading the forecasts. "WW.EXE" is the
main
Weather Watcher program. I use an external program (DL.EXE) to
download the
weather because the language I wrote Weather Watcher in does not
support
synchronous processing -- Weather Watcher would freeze while the
weather was
downloading if this setup was not used.

I hope that helps.

Regards,
Mike~
</quote>

Now I'm happy. I really do like the program.