[PL] 2004 VOTE DISCUSSION: INTERNET

[Onno]

Keep first 2, dump Calypso.

Even though I absolutely prefer Calypso to Foxmail and Pegasus, I agree.

 

[Onno]

There is a good reason to have two newsreaders,

At least to have two on the Pricelessware List.

one offline and one online.
I'd put the top three on the list, with Gravity/Super
Gravity having only one entry.

First I thought that just Xnews and (Super)Gravity would be enough and
then I realized how much difficulties I had configuring Gravity and how
easy Free Agent was. So I'll go along with your proposal.

Anyway, four winners out of five contenders seems pointless to me.

 

[Tiger]

Even though I absolutely prefer Calypso to Foxmail and Pegasus, I
agree.

Especially since it's out of production and quickly getting dated.
The new version will be shareware, or so I've heard.

 

[omega]

Also, since this is acF, and many non-M$ alternatives in Windows are
not free, notably Agent for news and The Bat! for mail, the number of
qualifying competitors for this particular category was rather small
to begin with.

I've tried a hundred email progs, and dislike every one of them, where
the only exception is $Bat. That means I couldn't vote yes to any of the
freeware mail clients in the list. But if I were to vote, last thing I'd
choose is OE. I cannot forgive it the mass destruction it wreaked across
the realms of mail and netnews, and miss the days before it got born.

A lot of people are fans of OE, and it did clearly make it to PL; but it is
far from ever enjoying a full popularity.

 

[REMbranded]

"»Q«" <[email protected]> wrote:

I disagree. If there are so few people in a.c.f to vote for them as
Pricelessware, they should not be on the PL.

I have never used a server, so I did not vote on the category. I would
guess this is true for most everyone else also. They did get 5 votes
though, hopefully by people who are familar enough with them to denote
them as pricelessware.

The nominations page will still be available, so these apps will still
be on the pricelessware.org website. Perhaps an empty category for FTP
servers, with an explanation that no FTP servers made the list along
with a link to the nominations/voting page?

True. That sounds fair enough.

 

[omega]

Should it really be out if it is the only one in its category?

Especially when it happens to be an add-in for Forte Agent which makes the list
this year?

I'd recommend to keep it.

I wouldn't. What if plugins for a whole array of sofware - example: all the
plugins for Mozilla - were then up for categories?

The Agent user base, pay and freeware combined, it's not in a majority
position to begin with; and then even within that group, many do not have
interest in AGO.

 

[omega]

Even though I absolutely prefer Calypso to Foxmail and Pegasus, I agree.

Thirded.

 

[john p.]

I don't think
it's necessary to include empty categories with an explanation as to why
there are no programs in it.

I disagree. A category listing with a "No winner this year" remark
would serve to remind people that the category exists, in case they
have a program in mind that they would like to nominate the following
year in that category.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

I don't expect the server to offer up passwords to the
users...that would be rediculous. I'm talking about the person
maintaining the server. For me, maintaining the accounts in a
privately operated news server was a problem if I could not move
the accounts to a different server program. So, for me this was a
problem of hijacked data, not a "feature". In my definition, a
"feature" should be a desireable option.

Ok. I guess I'm happy that my server admins don't have access to my
passwords. As access to your users' passwords is something you want,
you have made the right choice in abandoning Hamster.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

ROFOLOL!

Outlook Express coming out ahead in a popular vote, who would have
thought this when hearing the ferociously vocal MS-bashing
minority.

I think anyone could have predicted this.

I wonder how they are going to make this fit with their set vision
of the world: in a popular vote where money and MS clout had no
say, users actually liked the MS product better. Imagine that.

Not better than the e-mail clients Pegasus Mail and Foxmail, and not
better than the news clients Xnews, Gravity, and Free Agent. As for MS
'clout' having no say, see Max's post about IE/OE being preinstalled on
every Windows machine.

But thanks for adding some 'ROFOLOL' crowing to the discussion thread.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

At least to have two on the Pricelessware List.

Yeah, I meant on the PL.

First I thought that just Xnews and (Super)Gravity would be enough
and then I realized how much difficulties I had configuring
Gravity and how easy Free Agent was. So I'll go along with your
proposal.

I had the opposite experience; for me, configuring Gravity is much
easier than Free Agent. But my suggestion was based on number of
votes - I don't think 23/20 is a high enough ratio to separate
(Super)Gravity from Free Agent.

 

[omega]

john p.:

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:23:00 GMT "Genna Reeney"


I disagree. A category listing with a "No winner this year" remark
would serve to remind people that the category exists, in case they
have a program in mind that they would like to nominate the following
year in that category.

How would not the same purpose be served by, eg

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003nominations/

(C) before a program name indicates the program is listed on the 2002 PL

CATEGORY PROGRAM NAME DESCRIPTION LINKS NOTES

Charting Tools (C) Dia Draw many diff... ...
Charting Tools (C) Grids schemes drawing... ...
Charting Tools TeeChartOffice Draw charts... ...
[....]

 

[omega]

john p.:

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:23:00 GMT "Genna Reeney"


I disagree. A category listing with a "No winner this year" remark
would serve to remind people that the category exists, in case they
have a program in mind that they would like to nominate the following
year in that category.

How would not the same purpose be served by, eg

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003nominations/

(C) before a program name indicates the program is listed on the 2002 PL

CATEGORY PROGRAM NAME DESCRIPTION LINKS NOTES

Charting Tools (C) Dia Draw many diff... ...
Charting Tools (C) Grids schemes drawing... ...
Charting Tools TeeChartOffice Draw charts... ...
[....]

Sorry, pretty incomplete. What I mean is to update the nominations page,
but do get a column in there to indicate whether a program was or was not
a final victor. Viewed by category, one could see when no program of a type
made it to PL, together with which ones were nominated.

It would be good to see various related enhancements to the PL2004
nominations page, having it reside as a useful reference.

 

[Onno]

I had the opposite experience; for me, configuring Gravity is much
easier than Free Agent.

LOL. It is personal indeed.

But my suggestion was based on number of
votes - I don't think 23/20 is a high enough ratio to separate
(Super)Gravity from Free Agent.

I see.

 

[Spacey Spade]

john p.:

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:23:00 GMT "Genna Reeney"

I don't think
it's necessary to include empty categories with an explanation as to why
there are no programs in it.

I disagree. A category listing with a "No winner this year" remark
would serve to remind people that the category exists, in case they
have a program in mind that they would like to nominate the following
year in that category.

How would not the same purpose be served by, eg

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003nominations/

(C) before a program name indicates the program is listed on the 2002 PL

CATEGORY PROGRAM NAME DESCRIPTION LINKS NOTES

Charting Tools (C) Dia Draw many diff... ...
Charting Tools (C) Grids schemes drawing... ...
Charting Tools TeeChartOffice Draw charts... ...
[....]

Sorry, pretty incomplete. What I mean is to update the nominations page,
but do get a column in there to indicate whether a program was or was not
a final victor. Viewed by category, one could see when no program of a type
made it to PL, together with which ones were nominated.

It would be good to see various related enhancements to the PL2004
nominations page, having it reside as a useful reference.

Speaking of completeness, I would still like to see the results for 2001
in there. You can track them to the point of the Archives link in the
2002 pages, but then you get this page:

http://www.pricelessware.org/2001

Ofcourse, I feel like I am whipping Susan to do even more... *guilt*

 

[omega]

I agree with your analysis Karen. I'd also add another point of
confusion....I was actually talking about "URLs", not ".url files".

It only appears that I misunderstood your question. Truly, I didn't.
I got focused only on the perimeters of that Bookmark Wizard does, and
was mentally tracking on how similar convertors will let you point at
whatever directory you want that contains .url files.

As a Mozilla and Netscape user, it took me awhile to learn what ".URL files"
were. That's because the extension on Mozilla/Netscape URL shortcuts are
not visible in Windows...at least not Windows 98. At any rate, when I think
of URLs, I think of the strings you type into your browser that start with
"http://"

Apologies for being sloppy about not directly replying to the question
of handling lines of text that are URLs. We got there the long way, at
least.

And yes, your reading of what "URLs" denotes would be standard. With
regard to the other, no"rmal usage is the word favorites. I'd done
the phrasing ".url files mainly to distinguish those favorites files
as stored in any directory, not just in the special "favorites" path.

I'm extremely fond of the format used by the tabbed browsers of the MSIE
family, their "groups" files. Each groups file is a text file, with URLs
in it, each on one line. Very handy, no convertor ever needed. And right,
those are _URLs_ in those files, wholly separate thing from the MSIE .url
files.

At any rate, when I think of URLs, I think of the strings you type into your
browser that start with "http://" and I thought the category in question...
"URL: Convert to HTML" was designed to convert lists of URLs into HTML.

The PL category page

# URL: Bookmarks-Favorites
# URL: Checker-Validator
# URL: Clipboard tool
:: # URL: Convert To HTML

Bookmark Merge is the only one there, under URL: Convert to HTML. It would
be accurate, and clearer, to instead have it read:

# URL: Bookmarks-Favorites
# URL: Checker-Validator
# URL: Clipboard tool
:: # URL: Favorites to HTML

.. . .

Btw, if VisitURL gets back in, how to call it? For it does do the first,
third, and forth of the things on that list. Together with the 25 other
functions it does, related to reading + importing + exporting + launching
of URLs.

 

[omega]

Speaking of completeness, I would still like to see the results for 2001
in there. You can track them to the point of the Archives link in the
2002 pages, but then you get this page:

http://www.pricelessware.org/2001

I would, too. The historical is always good reading.

Ofcourse, I feel like I am whipping Susan to do even more... *guilt*

I propose she cut back on sleeping, to provide more time for fulfilling our
wishes. My vote is to alot her 3hrs a night sleep.

 

[Ceg]

ROFOLOL!

Outlook Express coming out ahead in a popular vote, who would have thought this
when hearing the ferociously vocal MS-bashing minority.

I wonder how they are going to make this fit with their set vision of the world:
in a popular vote where money and MS clout had no say, users actually liked the
MS product better. Imagine that.

I'm probably splitting hairs here, but don't you have to "buy" Windows in
order to run OE? Wouldn't that move OE out of the freeware realm?

 

[jason]

omega wrote:

Bookmark Merge is the only one there, under URL: Convert to HTML. It
would be accurate, and clearer, to instead have it read:

# URL: Bookmarks-Favorites
# URL: Checker-Validator
# URL: Clipboard tool
:: # URL: Favorites to HTML
Agreed

Btw, if VisitURL gets back in, how to call it? For it does do the
first, third, and forth of the things on that list. Together with the
25 other functions it does, related to reading + importing + exporting
+ launching of URLs.

URL: Clipboard tool and converter??

 

[jason]

A point about YahooPOPs:
It does not do the same thing as the others: POPpeeper & other email
checkers allow us to see the mails in the account. YahooPOPs only
converts the protocol webmail->POP3, so that your normal (POP) mail
client can retrieve your mails from yahoo without having to pay.

It is not an email checker, and I'd recommend to keep it because of
the separate capability/usefulness.

Do ANY of the programs that won allow you to retrieve Yahoo or Hotmail?
ePrompter does, and YahooPOPs does via your own newsreader...I'm not sure
about the others. Clearly the ability to access webmail without having
to go to the Yahoo or Hotmail sites is a unique and widely sought-after
capability.