Discussion: New PL vote?

[Sietse Fliege]

I suggest to discuss having a new vote wrt the Pricelessware site:

The vote would be:
There will be YES *ONE* official PL web site
There will be NO *ONE* official PL web site

*YES* There will be *ONE* official web site: *THE* Pricelessware site.

We will appoint, by vote, *THE* Pricelessware web master.

The Pricelessware web master:
+ keeps the site up to date (with help of group members and
site visitors)
+ is open for suggestions wrt how the website should be organized
(eventual discussions and votes/polls take place in the group)
+ should otherwise have complete controll over the web site
Obviously there is an issue with the current pricelessware.org
domain.

The official pricelessware web site needs to have a home (domain).
The pricelessware domain will be paid for by one or more group
members and there will necessarily be the ONE (legal) domain owner.

Neither those who pay for the domain, nor the (legal) domain owner
should have any rights whatsoever.
The group should have exclusive rights, for instance to appoint the
web master.
There is an issue with the current pricelessware.org domain.
+ Will Genna accept whoever is appointed as web master?
+ Will Genna allow whoever is appointed as web master to have
complete controll over the web site?
If yes to both these questions, pricelessware.org is preferred.
Otherwise another domain will be needed.

Note: There may be mirrors (more or less exact/uptodate copies).
There may also be other websites that do whatever they want with
the voting results.

*NO* There will be no official pricelessware web site.
Anyone can do whatever with the voting results.
Discussions and polls about how any of those sites should be
organized should preferrably take place on those sites, not in the
group.


With regards to every new version of the PL list:

We will every time appoint *seperately* the person who will manage the
voting process.
In case there will be *one* official web master, as dicussed above, the
web master may be but does not have to be the same person as the votes
manager.


What could all this mean for the current situation:

In case the vote result is: YES, *ONE* official PL web site:
Two issues have to be addressed:
+ Who will be web master? A new vote should take place.
Amongst possible candidates are of course: Susan and Garrett.
+ Where, on what domain, will the web site reside?
Is the current pricelessware.org domain acceptable?
- Will Genna allow complete controll over the web site?
- Will Genna accept whoever is appointed as web master?
If yes to both these questions, pricelessware.org is preferred.
Otherwise another domain will be needed.
I believe this issue has to be addressed *in any case* .

In case the vote result is: NO, *NO ONE* official PL web site:
I personally find it very hard to speculate about what that would mean
for the current situation.

What do you think?

 

[Gump Worsley's Mask]

I suggest to discuss having a new vote wrt the Pricelessware site:

The vote would be:
There will be YES *ONE* official PL web site
There will be NO *ONE* official PL web site

*YES* There will be *ONE* official web site: *THE* Pricelessware site.

We will appoint, by vote, *THE* Pricelessware web master.

I vote YES to this official unhidden vote to have a vote that might
settle a vote to vote,,,,,,,etc.

cidr

 

[Frank Hahn]

I vote YES to this official unhidden vote to have a vote that might
settle a vote to vote,,,,,,,etc.

(I know I should not be responding to any of this stuff, but just can't
keep my hands off the keyboard...)

My take on the situation is this:

1. Susan won't work with Genna or update any information on the
http://www.pricelessware.org.

2. Susan wants to move her files/work to another domain that Genna does
not control.

3. Geena wants to maintain ownership of the pricelessware.org domain.
(Just a guess on my part, I have not seen official word).

4. Anyone can setup a site extolling the virtues of freeware if they
want.

5. Anyone can call their web site the official Pricelessware web site.
Some will agree, many won't.

6. Taking a vote on forcing someone to give up a domain name seems
pointless to me. If Genna wants to keep the domain name and have someone
run the site, then that is her buisness.

7. Susan got a vote on splitting and starting a new web site. There
really seems little point in voting on this again since there will really
be no clear consensus.

8. It seems to me the best course of action is to have a vote (if anyone
really wants to continue to vote) on a new domain name. My thought is to
have Susan purchase whatever name is agreed on. If people want to make
donations to that, that is there decission.

9. If there is to be a separate owner of the new domain name, what is to
keep this from happening all over again. Maybe there can be an agreement
on who is to purchase this new domain name, but I am not hopefull.

10. I don't know Susan or Genna. I have only corresponded in this group
with Susan on a couple of different occasions.

11. I have followed this group for several years and have only posted
something when I thought I could add to the discussion. Hopefully, this
has added to the discussion, if not I apologize.

 

[H-Man]

I vote YES to this official unhidden vote to have a vote that might
settle a vote to vote,,,,,,,etc.

I vote yes to have NO MORE VOTES, and no new threads on the topic.

HK

 

[john p.]

I suggest to discuss having a new vote wrt the Pricelessware site:

The vote would be:
There will be YES *ONE* official PL web site
There will be NO *ONE* official PL web site

I suggest that, in the interest of completeness, you need to add a
third choice.

DGAS: Don't give a sh*t one way or the other.

 

[Susan Bugher]

8. It seems to me the best course of action is to have a vote (if anyone
really wants to continue to vote) on a new domain name. My thought is to
have Susan purchase whatever name is agreed on. If people want to make
donations to that, that is there decission.

I agree. The question was would the pricelessware.org domain be
available. That question has been answered.

IMO it's time to move ahead - select and acquire a new domain name -
choose a host and get the new web site online ASAP.

9. If there is to be a separate owner of the new domain name, what is to
keep this from happening all over again. Maybe there can be an agreement
on who is to purchase this new domain name, but I am not hopefull.

IMO ATM there are three ownership/contol/power elements:

1. the donain name
2. the web site
3. the webmater/point person "job"

ISTM that having each one in separate hands gives us a fair amount of
protection. Additional safeguards may be a good idea - let's start with
separate "ownership" as a minimum.

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

I suggest to discuss having a new vote wrt the Pricelessware site:

What do you think?

Hello Sietse,

ISTM most newsgroup participants are sick and tired of discussion ATM. I
think a month or two from now makes more sense in terms of having a
*productive* discussion.

I think you have some very good ideas about what we should vote on. I
don't think now is the best time to discuss it.

JMVHO

Susan

 

[H-Man]

I agree. The question was would the pricelessware.org domain be
available. That question has been answered.

IMO it's time to move ahead - select and acquire a new domain name -
choose a host and get the new web site online ASAP.


IMO ATM there are three ownership/contol/power elements:

1. the donain name
2. the web site
3. the webmater/point person "job"

ISTM that having each one in separate hands gives us a fair amount of
protection. Additional safeguards may be a good idea - let's start with
separate "ownership" as a minimum.

Well stated Susan, I agree completely!.

HK

 

[Garrett]

Hello Sietse,

ISTM most newsgroup participants are sick and tired of discussion
ATM. I think a month or two from now makes more sense in terms of
having a productive discussion.

I think you have some very good ideas about what we should vote on. I
don't think now is the best time to discuss it.

JMVHO

Susan

Ditto...

and to add to that.. I just want things done in a fair, clear and
honest manner. That way, there can't be any legitimate arguements from
anyone. Anyone who argues about it after that is just way out of line
at that point.

-Garrett

 

[R. L.]

I suggest to discuss having a new vote...

no more votes please....at least for now can we have
some fun instead??

--
RL
*******************************************
Unofficial Adaware Updater:
http://home.earthlink.net/
~ringomei/Unofficial_adaware_updater.html

Little (File) Backer Upper:
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~ringomei/Backup_tool_Backer_Upper.html

Uptime Quickie; Lefty Animated Cursors;
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*******************************************

 

[Susan Bugher]

Susan Bugher wrote:




Ditto...

and to add to that.. I just want things done in a fair, clear and
honest manner.

Of course, just like the recent vote to move

That way, there can't be any legitimate arguements from

anyone.

True

Anyone who argues about it after that is just way out of line

at that point.

*Very* True

BTW - I'm still trying to figure out how you missed the thread titled:
"Da Vote: Move the Pricelessware site". Care to share?

Susan

 

[Nicolaas Hawkins]

Hello Sietse,

ISTM most newsgroup participants are sick and tired of discussion ATM. I
think a month or two from now makes more sense in terms of having a
*productive* discussion.

I think you have some very good ideas about what we should vote on. I
don't think now is the best time to discuss it.

JMVHO

Susan

A month or two from now, it will more-or-less be time to start caling
nominations for the next Pricelessware (or whatever name is decided upon)
List. I would expect that task to be pretty much a full-time thing in
itself, and we really don't want to be stuffing around playing musical
web-sites at the same time - particularly the returning officer/list
manager.

I suggest that either the website/domain name/webmaster/list manager
question be resolved with some urgency (i.e., forthwith rather than some
months down the track), or that the task of calling nominations and
compiling the next list be postponed until such time as the management
question is settled. If that means there will be no 1995 list, then so
be it.
--

Regards,
Nicolaas.

Distribution site for 2004 Pricelessware CD.
E-Mail me for details. (e-mail address removed)



- Is your dog fat? Yes? Then you aren't getting enough exercise!

 

[Garrett]

Susan Bugher wrote:

[snip]

BTW - I'm still trying to figure out how you missed the thread
titled: "Da Vote: Move the Pricelessware site". Care to share?

Susan

Never saw it.. I saw a broken thread that was "RE: Da Vote...", but
could not find an actual thread for the vote itself. I even dumped my
entire newsgroup data file and reloaded it from scratch, and had it
load all posts since January, just to make sure I didn't miss it. But
still did not find it directly. I had to assume that it was in the
"irreconsilable differences" thread, which was so horribly long that
even I dared not to sift through that monster thread.

Was the vote held in the thread you note above?

-Garrett

 

[R. L.]

I even dumped my
entire newsgroup data file and reloaded it from scratch,
and had it load all posts since January, just to make sure
I didn't miss it.

Hey just a side tracked here, I actually found two places
other than Google are good place to read or find things from
this group:

http://encoderx.co.uk/news/thread.php?group=alt.comp.freeware

http://www.talkaboutshareware.com/group/alt.comp.freeware/


There are of course more, but I like their layout.





--
RL
Unofficial Adaware Updater; Little (File) Backer Upper; Uptime
Quickie; Lefty Animated Cursors;
http://home.earthlink.net/~ringomei/page2.html
*******************************************
Places that list the Pricelessware annual voting results and
information:
http://www.pricelessware.org,
http://lesspriceware.netfirms.com/

 

[Garrett]

Hey just a side tracked here, I actually found two places
other than Google are good place to read or find things from
this group:

http://encoderx.co.uk/news/thread.php?group=alt.comp.freeware

http://www.talkaboutshareware.com/group/alt.comp.freeware/


There are of course more, but I like their layout.

I've used google's group search before... Quite handy. Didn't realize
there were other sites for searching groups also. That's great to
know. Thanks for posting that.

-Garrett

 

[R. L.]

I've used google's group search before... Quite handy.
Didn't realize there were other sites for searching groups
also. That's great to know. Thanks for posting that.

-Garrett

Yes, I didn't know either. In fact, I suspect that there
could be more but not have not got archieved in Google yet. I
found them because I searched for my Adaware updater piece to
see if people can find it in Google and turns out the first
things I saw were my announcments made here showing up in that
two places. Since some forums/places start listing this
group, I think we can really keep a good copy of Pricelessware
results in this NG so that people who do a web search can also
find them



--
RL
Unofficial Adaware Updater; Little (File) Backer Upper; Uptime
Quickie; Lefty Animated Cursors;
http://home.earthlink.net/~ringomei/page2.html
*******************************************
Places that list the Pricelessware annual voting results and
information:
http://www.pricelessware.org,
http://lesspriceware.netfirms.com/

 

[Susan Bugher]

Susan Bugher wrote:

[snip]

BTW - I'm still trying to figure out how you missed the thread
titled: "Da Vote: Move the Pricelessware site". Care to share?

Susan

Never saw it.. I saw a broken thread that was "RE: Da Vote...", but
could not find an actual thread for the vote itself. I even dumped my
entire newsgroup data file and reloaded it from scratch, and had it
load all posts since January, just to make sure I didn't miss it. But
still did not find it directly. I had to assume that it was in the
"irreconsilable differences" thread, which was so horribly long that
even I dared not to sift through that monster thread.

Was the vote held in the thread you note above?

You still can't find the threads?

Here's a bit of help:

*******************

Subject: Irreconcilable Differences
From: Susan Bugher <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:46:13 -0400
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware

Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in the
"PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of emails.

The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working. It's not going
to work.

I do not intend to discuss what happened, why it happened, who was to
blame etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom line.

I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.

The Pricelessware List has been hosted on other sites in the past (IIRC
the last move was about two years ago). Some free sites have been
offered. If they are not suitable others can be found. Hosting details -
who, how, where etc. will require discussion.

The move itself is not a Big Deal. Getting the Pricelessware site up and
running at a new location will only take a few hours.

I would like to continue as webmaster. My top priority: ensuring that
the Pricelessware List can be prepared and maintained easily by others
when I leave.

I don't like putting the group in the position it's in now - I want to
ensure that it won't happen again.

Questions, comments and *votes* (move/stay) please.

Susan


FYI: I sent Genna an email when I started the "PL issues" thread. I will
notify her this time too.

*****************

From: Susan Bugher ([email protected])
Subject: Da Vote: Move the Pricelessware site
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware
Date: 2004-06-26 04:10:10 PST

This is my unresignation. Apologies for the previous over-reaction.

Please mark your scorn and abuse responses [OT] out of consideration for
others. TIA

Here are the vote results:

DON'T MOVE THE PL SITE:

»Q« <[email protected]>
Genna Reeney <[email protected]>
"Jack D. Russell, Sr." <"jackru$$ell2"@notmail.com>
John Corliss <[email protected]#>
-----------

MOVE THE PL SITE:

Alex Balfour <[email protected]>
Ben A Gozar <[email protected]>
Ben Cooper <[email protected]>
BoB <[email protected]>
burnr <[email protected]>
Dan Goodman <[email protected]>
dszady_at_adnmail_dot_com
jo <[email protected]>
Larry Sabo <[email protected]>
mike ring <[email protected]>
Mister Charlie <[email protected]>
(e-mail address removed)
Omar© <[email protected]>
PuppyKatt <[email protected]>
REM <[email protected]>
(e-mail address removed)
Won Dampchin <TuDampchin@myrealbox_dont*like*spam_.com>
-------------

It was hard to *find* the votes in the 200* posts in "Irreconcilable
Differences" thread.

Any additions/corrections?

Susan

****************

From: Susan Bugher ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Da Vote: Move the Pricelessware site
View: Complete Thread (159 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware
Date: 2004-06-28 10:43:22 PST

The vote now stands at 34 in favor of the move, 14 opposed.

3 additional votes were cast yesterday - all 3 in favor of the move.
There have been no additional votes today.

It appears that those people who wished to vote have voted - it is time
to finalize the results.

The final vote count is 37 in favor of the move, 14 opposed.

Susan

-------------

MOVE THE PL SITE:

Alex Balfour <[email protected]>
Ben A Gozar <[email protected]>
Ben Cooper <[email protected]>
BoB <[email protected]>
burnr <[email protected]>
Dan Goodman <[email protected]>
dszady_at_adnmail_dot_com
jo <[email protected]>
Larry Sabo <[email protected]>
mike ring <[email protected]>
Mister Charlie <[email protected]>
(e-mail address removed)
Omar© <[email protected]>
PuppyKatt <[email protected]>
REM <[email protected]>
(e-mail address removed)
Won Dampchin <TuDampchin@myrealbox_dont*like*spam_.com>
--------
Corncrake <[email protected]>
Roger Johansson <[email protected]>
Glenn <[email protected]>
Onno <[email protected]>
James <[email protected]>
BEGE´s <[email protected]>
Colin Williams <[email protected]>
Bobby <[email protected]>
Bill Day <[email protected]>
(e-mail address removed)
majales <[email protected]>
Bjorn Simonsen <[email protected]>
Bob <[email protected]>
Olaf Janson <[email protected]>
John H. <[email protected]>
POKO <[email protected]>
"Mad" <[email protected]>

---------
(e-mail address removed)
Helen <@abuse.roman.gov>
TedK <[email protected]>

DON'T MOVE THE PL SITE:

»Q« <[email protected]>
Genna Reeney <[email protected]>
"Jack D. Russell, Sr." <"jackru$$ell2"@notmail.com>
John Corliss <[email protected]#>
---------
bambam <[email protected]>
ranrad <[email protected]>
badgolferman <[email protected]>
(e-mail address removed)
Mel <[email protected]>
R. L. <ringomeinew@_hot_mail_.YOU_KNOW_THE_REST>
GoodTime Barnie <[email protected]>
jason <[email protected]>
vince <[email protected]>
Arne Anka <[email protected]>

******************

 

[R. L.]

You still can't find the threads?
Here's a bit of help:

[snipped the looong thread repost)


Susan, whatever it was, it doesn't matter now. You don't need
anyone approval. You have complete right to do what you want
with the files and to help reporting the pricelessware list
results (and of course, so as Garrett , so, let's nice and
forget all the passed conflicts ). Let's move on and look
forward to see both new sites to serve the participants here
Susan, keep us posted on how everything is going, I am
looking forward to visit the new site you work on and also
want have its link on my site I'd have volunteered to help
(for either site) if I have anticipated a less seasonal
schedule myself, but unfortunately I couldn't due to my
personal life involvments. Hopefully one day I could
Let's move on, forget the unplesants and have fun



--
RL
Unofficial Adaware Updater; Little (File) Backer Upper; Uptime
Quickie; Lefty Animated Cursors;
http://home.earthlink.net/~ringomei/page2.html
*******************************************
Places that list the Pricelessware annual voting results and
information:
http://www.pricelessware.org,
http://lesspriceware.netfirms.com/

 

[Garrett]

Susan Bugher wrote:
[snip]

You still can't find the threads?

Here's a bit of help:

*******************

Subject: Irreconcilable Differences
From: Susan Bugher <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:46:13 -0400
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware

[snip]

I said I wasn't going to post anymore regarding this. But look at the
subject line of that... Does that subject line tell anyone that there's
a major vote going on in that thread? When I dropped in, I noted a
thread on the 22nd that gave me the indication that there was a
problem, and then another on the 23rd. Then of course, a landslide of
new threads after that.

Anyway, thanks for at least pointing it out. Please understand
though... I have no intention of traversing through that gigantic
thread. I just took a quick glimpse, and there's just far too much in
there to even bother going over. And what I did see, I'd rather not
comment on because it would do nothing more than add fuel to what
should already be burnt out and done with.

Water under the bridge now as far as I'm concerned.

Best regards,
-Garrett

 

[Susan Bugher]

I suggest that either the website/domain name/webmaster/list manager
question be resolved with some urgency (i.e., forthwith rather than some
months down the track), or that the task of calling nominations and
compiling the next list be postponed until such time as the management
question is settled. If that means there will be no 1995 list, then so
be it.

It would be helpful if Garrett stated his intentions. If Garrett does
not wish to be point person for PL2005 then IMO there will be no need
for further discussion ATM.

I've been point person for the group since last fall. AFAIK to date this
has not been elective position. IOW - the person who held the position
held it until they chose to step down.

I plan to start a discussion of the voting procedure, the selection
process following the vote etc. etc. *soon* - so that we will have
agreed upon procedures when nominations for PL2005 begin.

ISTM that if Garrett does wish to act as point person for PL2005 then
the vote should be held *ASAP*.

Susan