I think it's an improvement. . .

[Susan Bugher]

MLC wrote:

Table width is set at 100 percent - I agree the tables *appear* to be
off-center (If I make the tables narrower some of the links wrap -
which makes them hard to read.)

I changed to a 90 percent width and used only two columns for the acf
list (that's where the long link names are) - IMO it looks better now -
thanks Maria.

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

Yes, I like this layout better. Makes it even easier to go directly to
where you want to go.

Now, what do you guys think about also adding the Google search box to
that page? It might help when you're not sure where to find what you're
looking for.

Done - it's at the bottom of the page.

Susan

 

[Ben Cooper]

Done - it's at the bottom of the page.

And I only blinked one time.

 

[BillR]

I added an index to the home page.

I think the Sunday version is a much better front page. I really like
having so much information clearly presented. Thanks for introducing this
and to the others (especially Bjorn) for additional suggestions.

As always, I have an opinion (or five or ten, although none diametrically
opposed for a change). All are quite minor changes, I think.

First, waiting a day or two to make more changes is a good idea. Let the
changes settle in, comments accumulate, and your eye rest. (You do still
have a non-ACF life, don't you?)

Second, I like the column format. It is much easier to read than unending
horizontal rows. Compare identifying the differences between nearly
adjacent and similar titles in the two formats. Even the length of each
entry communicates information in a column format. In addition, one's
natural eye movements and "chunking" (span) are likely to include not only
the line you are on but some peripheral awareness of adjacent lines. That
is not possible with titles, especially of substantially differing length,
placed side by side.

Third, how about including a summary of the topics above the columns? That
would only add a few lines to the overall page length while greatly
improving the initial understanding of the page structure.

I just went back to www.pricelesswarehome.org to create an example for the
prior paragraph, but the page has changed since I looked at it earlier
today. My original idea of including two or three lines over each column
that repeated the major headings is no longer as applicable, but the need
for additional signposting is even more pressing. Please consider including
4(?) lines below the graphic, one per major subdivision (currently 2004
Pricelessware, alt.comp.freeware (ACF), 2003 Pricelessware Archive, and
2005 Pricelessware - Preliminary). Please use your judgment to determine
whether just that text is most appropriate or whether each line could also
list major subheads (e.g., 2004 Pricelessware -- List, CD, Nominations
Archive, Cumulative List).

I don't really care which way you adopt as long as you signpost.

Fourth, I've always found the title format of "2004 Cumulative List"
confusing. "Cumulative List through 2004" would be much clearer to a first
time reader -- and at least one non-first time user.

Fifth, the mix of title case and upper case subject headings helps to
distinguish the summary pages from the subject area pages, but I think this
would be even better served by introducing a blank or dashed line between
Program Index and BUSINESS-HOME.

Sixth, I think text editor summary and webware are important pages that are
lost in the current presentation. I realize this may be controversial, but
I suggest that the top of the 2004 TEXT page include a reference directly
below the header and above the first subhead (i.e., before Editor: Notepad).
For webware, I suggest an extra line below 2004 Pricelessware Index or in
the middle column saying something like "(For webware, see ACF, Links:
Webware)"

Seventh, without intending to reopen the arguments from the recent past,
there is no indication that the vase majority of this site is devoted to MS
Windows software. Now that our slogan has been changed, I think it is
incumbent upon each site to determine how to mention that.on the opening
page of the site (or of each year where this is true if there is an
intervening pricelesswareXXXX index page.

Eighth, for ACF Projects, shouldn't we anticipate 2005 Pricelessware CD? If
nothing else, it will remind us that any time we contact authors that we
should ask for a special dispensation (or notify them that we intend) to
distribute their software. It also would serve as a place to list volunteer
roles and volunteers.

Ninth, is there some strongly expressed preference for "acf" versus "ACF"
(outside of the *nix world)?

Tenth, I strongly concur that expecting someone to click on the
Pricelessware graphic to enter the site without some additional prompting is
inappropriate. (My dislike of sites that do that rises to the level of a
pet peeve.) The graphic you have chosen is quite large but still leaves
blank width. Instead of putting Enter below the graphic, how about putting
it on either side of the graphic. 'Enter" itself could be a link (as now);
"Enter" could be a label adjacent to an arrow pointing to the center
button/link/graphic
(i.e., "Enter --> Pricelessware <-- Enter"); it could be a label
immediately above a center-pointing arrow. This would save a couple of the
lines needed for signposting.

Alternatively, the 2004 Pricelessware heading and 2004 Pricelessware List
subheading could become links for 2004 Index. Despite my normal abhorrence
of expecting someone to click on a graphic to enter a site, I find this a
perfectly acceptable alternative since the overall site index is on the same
page -- provided that additional signposting is included (see item 3).

Finally, please remember that an appreciable minority of your visitors are
going to be red-green color impaired or have other vision problems. The
green (aqua?) you have chosen for a background does not provide sufficient
contrast with the blue text. This is a problem throughout the site. It
makes reading the text for a prolonged period much more tiring than need be.
(And yes, I can turn off the background in the browser, but that should not
be remotely necessary for (any of) 99% of your visitors.) Given the number
of underlined links and the extensive use of upper case, increasing the line
spacing slightly also would help, especially with smaller fonts.

IIRC, this issue has been discussed in one form or another in several ACF
threads. I favor the Web Accessibility Toolbar provided by the National
Information and Library Service (NILS), Australia, for testing such issues.
I also like Designing a More Usable World for its links (although they are
slightly dated) but there are many other toolbars and sites. Those with
more experience may have better suggestions.
http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar.html
http://trace.wisc.edu/world/web/#dis_web_use

Thanks for adding the site map / index to the opening page of
PricelesswareHome. I think it makes site navigation much easier and gives
the occasional visitor a chance to understand the site. A very welcome
addition. Place hand over opposite shoulder and pat gently but firmly and
smile.

BillR

 

[Roger Johansson]

Ninth, is there some strongly expressed preference for "acf" versus
"ACF" (outside of the *nix world)?

Only people who have been around this newsgroup for some time will
understand what acf means, no matter if it is capitalized or not.

Avoid acronyms unless you are very sure that people, all over the world
and with different experiences, know what it means.

Tenth, I strongly concur that expecting someone to click on the
Pricelessware graphic to enter the site without some additional
prompting is inappropriate.

I could not install many programs for a while, because the installer
programs showed some text in a box, with a big picture to the left, and a
few buttons at the bottom. None of the buttons installed anything.

It took me several tries before I realized that the big picture on the
left side was the install button. So I agree very much with this comment
from you.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

As I mentioned in another post post I *will* add the ISO and bit
torrent links to the PL2004 CD page. I was being super-cautious
(aka paranoid) initially - from concern that *any* problem at that
stage would be fatal.

I haven't followed the issues that surround making it available as an
ISO, so forgive me if this idea has already been raised.

Maybe Prof. Salmi could add it to his giant software archive. There's
a lot of bandwidth, and it's a well-trusted server.

 

[Susan Bugher]

I haven't followed the issues that surround making it available as an
ISO, so forgive me if this idea has already been raised.

We need to review and revise the goals (distributing an ISO wasn't a
goal of this year's project). When we ask the authors for permission to
distribute their apps we need to state *what* we want permission to do -
last year we asked if we could distribute a CD - an ISO was mentioned in
passing. . .

It may be a bit early but. . . if this seems like a good time to
discuss the PL2005 CD goals I'll start a thread.

PL2004 CD goals are here:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/2004/CD-Procedures.php

<q>
Purpose: The objective is to facilitate the acquisition of PL programs
by alt.comp.freeware participants and visitors to the Pricelessware site.

In particular: to facilitate the acquisition of PL programs by people
who have difficulty downloading programs due to slow connections speeds,
high connection costs etc. etc.

Maybe Prof. Salmi could add it to his giant software archive. There's
a lot of bandwidth, and it's a well-trusted server.

That sounds promising.

Susan

 

[Roger Johansson]

Purpose: The objective is to facilitate the acquisition of PL programs
by alt.comp.freeware participants and visitors to the Pricelessware
site.

In particular: to facilitate the acquisition of PL programs by people
who have difficulty downloading programs due to slow connections
speeds, high connection costs etc. etc.

I wonder if the word "acquisition" is so good.
Wouldn't "distribution" be better?

English is not my first language, so I may be wrong, but the word acquire
has something to do with transferring ownership in many cases where I
have seen it being used.

Even if it is formally a correct word to use it may cause unwanted
associations in the minds of freeware authors.

 

[Susan Bugher]

My original idea of including two or three lines over each column
that repeated the major headings is no longer as applicable, but the need
for additional signposting is even more pressing. Please consider including
4(?) lines below the graphic, one per major subdivision (currently 2004
Pricelessware, alt.comp.freeware (ACF), 2003 Pricelessware Archive, and
2005 Pricelessware - Preliminary).

IMO signposting isn't needed. . . it's not a long page. . .

Fourth, I've always found the title format of "2004 Cumulative List"
confusing. "Cumulative List through 2004" would be much clearer to a first
time reader -- and at least one non-first time user.

I removed the year references. less is more

Fifth, the mix of title case and upper case subject headings helps to
distinguish the summary pages from the subject area pages, but I think this
would be even better served by introducing a blank or dashed line between
Program Index and BUSINESS-HOME.

Yup - or bold - later. . .

Sixth, I think text editor summary and webware are important pages that are
lost in the current presentation. I realize this may be controversial, but
I suggest that the top of the 2004 TEXT page include a reference directly
below the header and above the first subhead (i.e., before Editor: Notepad).
For webware, I suggest an extra line below 2004 Pricelessware Index or in
the middle column saying something like "(For webware, see ACF, Links:
Webware)"

I asked a while back if the group wanted a link to equivalent acf pages
shown at the bottom of the PL page and those who responded were "agin
it". . .

I do agree that more explanation is needed somewhere - previous
explanatory info got lost as a result of these other changes - I'll be
adding that again. . . later. . .

Seventh, without intending to reopen the arguments from the recent past,
there is no indication that the vase majority of this site is devoted to MS
Windows software. Now that our slogan has been changed, I think it is
incumbent upon each site to determine how to mention that.on the opening
page of the site (or of each year where this is true if there is an
intervening pricelesswareXXXX index page.

IMO the "assumption" is Windows. Check out a few other sites with
Windows apps. . .

Eighth, for ACF Projects, shouldn't we anticipate 2005 Pricelessware CD? If
nothing else, it will remind us that any time we contact authors that we
should ask for a special dispensation (or notify them that we intend) to
distribute their software. It also would serve as a place to list volunteer
roles and volunteers.

That's being discussed in another thread. FYI I shifted those CD pages
to the PL2005 directory.

Ninth, is there some strongly expressed preference for "acf" versus "ACF"
(outside of the *nix world)?

dunno - I use both. . .

Tenth, I strongly concur that expecting someone to click on the
Pricelessware graphic to enter the site without some additional prompting is
inappropriate.

<SNIP>

I have revised that part of the page again. . .

Finally, please remember that an appreciable minority of your visitors are
going to be red-green color impaired or have other vision problems. The
green (aqua?) you have chosen for a background does not provide sufficient
contrast with the blue text. This is a problem throughout the site.

IIRC, this issue has been discussed in one form or another in several ACF
threads. I favor the Web Accessibility Toolbar provided by the National
Information and Library Service (NILS), Australia, for testing such issues.
I also like Designing a More Usable World for its links (although they are
slightly dated) but there are many other toolbars and sites. Those with
more experience may have better suggestions.
http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar.html
http://trace.wisc.edu/world/web/#dis_web_use

I don't recall this being brought up before in regard to the
Pricelessware site - thanks for the heads-up. Would a *lighter* blue
background be an improvement? That would be an easy change to make.

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

I wonder if the word "acquisition" is so good.
Wouldn't "distribution" be better?

Acquire means to obtain/receive/get something. The statements are
referring to the people who receive the CDs - not the distributors.

I'm sure there's a better way to say it - we can change the language
when we review the PL2005 goals.

Susan

 

[Roger Johansson]

Acquire means to obtain/receive/get something.

The word acquisition reminds me of Fusssy, who used to announce that he
had recently acquired a software which he intended to incorporate into
his Babbya suite of programs.

Remember that many of the freeware authors do not have english as their
first language, just like me, and may have the same associations when
they hear that word as I have.

 

[Bjorn Simonsen]

<SNIP>

I have revised that part of the page again. . .

Smaller now, nice

All the best,
Bjorn Simonsen

 

[Susan Bugher]

Susan Bugher wrote in <[email protected]>:

Smaller now, nice

TY

and again. . .

further changes include moving the search links to the top of the page.
I've also added the ACF newsgroup search link to *all* the current
pages.

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org

Susan

 

[Bjorn Simonsen]

further changes include moving the search links to the top of the page.
I've also added the ACF newsgroup search link to *all* the current
pages.

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org

On the front page, you need to move the ACF search link somewhere
else, as it stands it looks like a explanatory header for the google
box below. Maybe instead - leave the acf link there and move the PL
search box up, right under the topmost "Pricelessware Home". .....

Btw good idea to add search to all pages, since many will follow
direct links from newsgroup post and thus bypass the front page.

All the best,
Bjorn Simonsen

 

[Bjorn Simonsen]

On the front page, you need to move the ACF search link somewhere
else, as it stands it looks like a explanatory header for the google
box below. Maybe instead - leave the acf link there and move the PL
search box up, right under the topmost "Pricelessware Home". ..

hmm, how will it look if you move the current google box up into
the left corner, right under "http://www.pricelesswarehome.org"
Then the acf search link in the right corner right under
"About the Pricelessware web site" (and/or in the acf section further
below, right under the main acf heading)

All the best,
Bjorn Simonsen

 

[Susan Bugher]

hmm, how will it look if you move the current google box up into
the left corner, right under "http://www.pricelesswarehome.org"
Then the acf search link in the right corner right under
"About the Pricelessware web site" (and/or in the acf section further
below, right under the main acf heading)

That's probably the best alternate location. I'd like to leave it where
it is. IMO a link *button* instead of a link would be nice (there and on
all the other pages too).

I'm *trying* to do other things, but I keep deciding to make just a
*few* more changes on that page.

No more changes today. . . maybe. . .

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

The word acquisition reminds me of Fusssy, who used to announce that he
had recently acquired a software which he intended to incorporate into
his Babbya suite of programs.

Despite that - it *is* a perfectly respectable word.

Remember that many of the freeware authors do not have english as their
first language, just like me, and may have the same associations when
they hear that word as I have.

ISTM your associations are correct - freeware authors are giving their
programs away. People who receive a PL2004 CD acquire the programs.

Susan

 

[Roger Johansson]

ISTM your associations are correct - freeware authors are giving their
programs away. People who receive a PL2004 CD acquire the programs.

People who get the PL CD sent to them are not "buying" it.
They are maybe paying a small fee to cover the costs for sending them the
CD. So the word acquire is not relevant in this context.

If I was a freeware author, and was approached by some people who talked
about acquiring my program for some purpose, or a similar wording, I
would ignore them unless I was interested in selling the copyright.

It is so easy to avoid this word so I cannot understand why it has to be
used in this context.

In a text intended to be read by a global audience, with limited
knowledge in english, it is a good idea to use simplified english, using
words which are common and easy to understand.

In the context of freeware and distribution based on voluntary help from
people the words acquire and acquisition seem misplaced somehow.

Even if they are linguistically and technically correct to use in that
situation they give associations which may counteract the purpose, to
talk freeware authors into letting us distribute their programs to
people.

In a text directed at these authors we should use words and expressions
which give positive associations, like freeware, distribution, voluntary,
help, possible, put together a CD with the best freeware, allow people to
download a CD or have it burnt and sent to them by volunteers, these
volunteers may only accept compensation for the cost of burning and
sending the CD via mail, etc..

(I feel my limitations in the english language when I try to find good
ways to formulate such a message, but I hope I have shown the way I would
think when writing it.)

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

In a text intended to be read by a global audience, with limited
knowledge in english, it is a good idea to use simplified english,
using words which are common and easy to understand.

IMO, "aquisition" qualifies as a simple, easily understood word.

(I feel my limitations in the english language when I try to find
good ways to formulate such a message, but I hope I have shown the
way I would think when writing it.)

I don't see the negative connotations in the word "acquisition" that
you do, and right now I can't think of another noun to do the job. How
about "the acquisition of copies of freeware programs" rather than just
"the aquisition of freeware programs"? ISTM that would leave no room
for the interpretation that authors' rights are being aquired.

 

[dszady]

That's probably the best alternate location. I'd like to leave it where
it is. IMO a link *button* instead of a link would be nice (there and on
all the other pages too).

I'm *trying* to do other things, but I keep deciding to make just a
*few* more changes on that page.

No more changes today. . . maybe. . .

Susan

I was just looking at the site and was wondering. Do you ever sleep?