What IS and what ISN'T freeware IMO.

J

John Corliss

A long time ago, I warned that those who seek to make a profit by
disguising non-freeware as freeware would come into this group and
promote that kind of garbage. They would also attempt to dilute the
definition of freeware to mean something that would serve their
purposes. There are also those who through sheer laziness or a desire
to simply be disruptive, and those who are commercial software shills
don't care that they are promoting non-freeware in this group. This
has been happening with increasing frequency, so I now repost (edited)
a previous message I sent a while back as a wakeup call to the group
and as an expression of *my* opinion. You are free to disagree, but I
will not answer replies to this post.

***************************************
Freeware is very clearly defined in my mind as being fully
featured software that was originally intended to be free to use, no
strings attached. What are strings? Any requirement on you the user's
part, that are not related to the actual functioning of the software
but which must be done in order to use the software. This doesn't mean
that there aren't types of non-freeware that shouldn't be recommended
as solutions in this group, it's just that common sense should tell
you which that is. Examples of such software are:

Careware
Donationware
Liteware
Postcardware

Still:

*Adware* is not freeware.
*Betaware* is not freeware (although sometimes discussed here)
*Careware* is not freeware (although sometimes discussed here, but
there isn't a lot of it)
*CDware* is not freeware (unless it is freeware available on the
internet.)
*Commercial software* is not freeware.
*Crippleware* is not freeware.
*Demoware* is not freeware.
*Donationware* is not freeware (although sometimes discussed here)
*"Free to download"* may or may not be freeware.
*Fonts* are not freeware, they are data files.
*Free services* are not freeware, although the software required to
use such services may or may not be freeware.
*Liteware* is not freeware (although sometimes discussed here)
*Nagware* is not freeware.
*Orphanware* is only freeware if the author specifically says that it
is when he/she drops support of the software.
*Pirated software* is not freeware.
*Postcardware* is not freeware (although sometimes discussed here)
*Porno sites* are not freeware.
*Shareware* is not freeware.
*Spyware* is not freeware.
*Text and other data files* are not freeware.
*Time limited software* is not freeware.
*Trialware* is not freeware.
*Trojans* are not freeware.
*Viruses and virus authoring* software are not freeware.
*Warez* is not freeware.

If a program is "sort of" any of these; even if you wouldn't call it
"exactly" one of these other types of software, then it definitely
ISN'T freeware.

Here's a "little" prediction that will let you in on why I am so
vociferous in my protestations:

**************************
Some day, your software BE IT COMMERCIAL or ANY OTHER VARIETY, will be
as overly saturated as U.S. commercial broadcast television is
currently with advertisements. Your time will be wasted wading through
or simply being forced to endure, endless and worthless static and
animated messages that squander your life force. You won't be able to
type a document into a word processor without wasting portions of your
life viewing commercials about products which are of absolutely NO
interest to you. Much in the way a man is currently subjected to
women's hygiene and cosmetic products during the evening news hour or
a woman has to watch beer commercials if she's into sports.

This is not just a possibility, it is in fact what the future holds
for us. It's one reason why there's such a big push to put all
software online; so that the makers of such software can control it
with immediacy; so that they will be able to alter the commercials
that will be contained in the software as well as monitor our behavior
while online. Bill Gates and Microsoft want a future where you WILL be
online whenever you use your computer. Period.

We are all subject to the whims of those in the world who can't
control their own greed and such people will never go away. In fact,
as our population increases uncontrollably towards our own massive
extinction in the not too distant future, the ratio of those who
employ unethical methods to survive to those who don't will only
increase. We are all victims. As we usurp the carrying capacity of
other species, we will increasingly begin to prey upon ourselves until
actual government sanctioned cannibalism is a reality ("Soylent Green"
*will* eventually happen).

You buy a video movie and the first 10 minutes of it are spent
watching "previews", or commercials for other movies. Soon, there will
be one commercial break in the middle of the movie, then there will be
two. Those breaks will grow longer and then there will be three, etc.
This also, is not speculation; it is inevitable.

Software is NO DIFFERENT. You are sitting in front of a monitor, just
like a television, and your undivided attention is being given to it.
According to the thinking of the advertising community, this
opportunity MUST be exploited as closely as possilbe up to the point
where you are repulsed by the act of surfing the internet or running
software. Sooner or later, the villains of this world will insidiously
infest and cram commercial content into everything you view. In fact
they have already begun to do so, and the speed and thoroughness at
which they will perform this villainy will increase at a logarithmic rate.
******************************

Sounds pretty far fetched? Just wait. It is already happening. I
continually get email messages from friends and relatives with little
advertisements at the bottom of the message. Microsoft continually
plugs their services and other software from *within their commercial
software!* Adware has reared its ugly head and is being promoted by
many in this group as being true freeware. This is what I dread, and
am fighting tooth and claw. I also dread:

* the eventual future where Microsoft controls who can and who cannot
write any software.
* a future where Microsoft has effectively and completely taken over
the software market.
* a future where your activities are monitored all the time as the
natural outcome of "Orwellian creep."

We are all adherents of the third law of thermodynamics, i.e.
"any system which uses energy will devote a portion of that energy to
degrading the ability of the system to use energy. Ultimately, the
system will be unable to use energy and will fail."
We humans and our society are a system which uses energy. Entropy
(called Shiva the Destroyer by the Hindus), is soundly at work in this
newsgroup when I see people attempting to water down the meaning of
the term "freeware" due to laziness, a resentment of "being told what
to do" or so as to profit monetarily.
Perhaps it's inevitable that this newsgroup should someday be
consumed by spammers, trolls and off-topic discussions of
non-freeware. I would like to see that day put off as long as
possible, but concurrent with the posting of this message I see a
rapidly approaching end to the usefulness of this group.
 
B

Bryan Kirk

John said:
A long time ago, I warned that those who seek to make a profit by
disguising non-freeware as freeware would come into this group and
promote that kind of garbage. They would also attempt to dilute the
definition of freeware to mean something that would serve their
purposes. There are also those who through sheer laziness or a desire to
simply be disruptive, and those who are commercial software shills don't
care that they are promoting non-freeware in this group. This has been
happening with increasing frequency, so I now repost (edited) a previous
message I sent a while back as a wakeup call to the group and as an
expression of *my* opinion. You are free to disagree, but I will not
answer replies to this post.

***************************************
Freeware is very clearly defined in my mind as being fully featured
software that was originally intended to be free to use, no strings
attached. What are strings? Any requirement on you the user's part, that
are not related to the actual functioning of the software but which must
be done in order to use the software. This doesn't mean that there
aren't types of non-freeware that shouldn't be recommended as solutions
in this group, it's just that common sense should tell you which that
is....

Well said :) I hope this message will cause most of the people to stop
posting warez, etc.
_______________________________________________
Free Usenet Server Access
More than 125,000+ groups
Unlimited download. Support anonymous posting!
Visit http://www.usenetzone.com to Open Account
 
?

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=

This doesn't mean that there aren't types of non-freeware that
shouldn't be recommended as solutions in this group

Too many negatives here. ITYM something like, "This doesn't mean
that recommendations of all types of non-freeware solutions should
be avoided in this group." Since your position on this point is
frequently mischaracterized by those who disagree with you, I think
you should take pains to be clear on it. (And yeah, I know you've
taken such pains many, many times.)
 
B

BobS

John,

Take both hands off the keyboard and place them firmly on the desk. Now
with one strong heave, push yourself away from that monitor - you have been
sitting to close.

I'm sure glad you don't have anything to do with our constitution....

Bob S.
 
J

jo

BobS said:
John,

Take both hands off the keyboard and place them firmly on the desk. Now
with one strong heave, push yourself away from that monitor - you have been
sitting to close.

I'm sure glad you don't have anything to do with our constitution....

The reference to Shiva the Destroyer was worth reading the post for...
 
J

J44xm

["John Corliss"; Thu, 05 Aug 2004 23:18:08 GMT]
*Donationware* is not freeware (although sometimes discussed here)

Donationware not freeware? How is saying "It's free, but I accept totally
optional donations from those able and willing" not count as free?
 
V

Veign

Or Postcardware not considered freeware?. If you like the application send
us a postcard - the application still functions with or without and the
users are not forced to send...

I distribute all my software as Postcardware and I consider this freeware as
I force nothing upon my users....

Everyone has a right to their opinion....

--
Chris Hanscom
http://www.veign.com
--

J44xm said:
["John Corliss"; Thu, 05 Aug 2004 23:18:08 GMT]
*Donationware* is not freeware (although sometimes discussed here)

Donationware not freeware? How is saying "It's free, but I accept totally
optional donations from those able and willing" not count as free?
 
G

George Orwell

John - please take your hands away from the keyboard. Now, stand up. Look at the door to the
room you are in. Now walk out that door & make a commitment to leave your PC for at least 1
hour (I know it will be difficult, but I'm sure you can summon the strength & willpower). If
you continue to walk, you should eventually locate the door to the outside world. Please, go
out that door & discover that there are other things to do apart from constantly searching for &
discussing the pros and cons of various software products.

Please John, find the real world before we lose you entirely.
 
B

Barney

Veign wrote:

/Or Postcardware not considered freeware?. If you like the
/application send us a postcard - the application still functions with
/or without and the users are not forced to send...
/
/I distribute all my software as Postcardware and I consider this
/freeware as I force nothing upon my users....
/
/Everyone has a right to their opinion....
\

I agree. It's a good way to introduce appreciation to the programer on
a more personal note.

--
 
M

Mark Carter

advertisements at the bottom of the message. Microsoft continually plugs
their services and other software from *within their commercial
software!*

Case in point: when you first add equations to Microsoft Word 2000,
Microsoft tries to flog you a supplementary add-in (can't remember the
specifics).

Also, last year, my company bought a Dell. I remember having to
carefully navigate away from all of the crap that it wanted me to
subscribe to. Again, I can't remember the specifics, but AOL was in
there somewhere.

And on a slightly off-topic point, in order to activate my credit card,
I had to phone up the card issuer. This offorded them a little
advertising opportunity for payment protection schemes, and some other
insurance. In fact, you can't even phone them up with an account query
without them reminding you of the wonderful benefits they have on offer.

BTW, what's your view on stuff that's free for personal use, but not for
commercial use?
 
J

JanC

Veign schreef:
Or Postcardware not considered freeware?. If you like the application
send us a postcard - the application still functions with or without
and the users are not forced to send...

I distribute all my software as Postcardware and I consider this
freeware as I force nothing upon my users....

Some programmers _require_ sending a postcard to keep using it, that
wouldn't be real freeware, if you don't force anything, then there is no
problem I think... ;-)
 
V

Vic Dura

John,

Take both hands off the keyboard and place them firmly on the desk. Now
with one strong heave, push yourself away from that monitor - you have been
sitting to close.

I'm sure glad you don't have anything to do with our constitution....

Really!

I'm also glad he doesn't have any control over what we can post here.
 
J

John Corliss

»Q« said:
Too many negatives here. ITYM something like, "This doesn't mean
that recommendations of all types of non-freeware solutions should
be avoided in this group."

21 years after getting my degree, I'm still trying to shake "collegese."
Since your position on this point is
frequently mischaracterized by those who disagree with you, I think
you should take pains to be clear on it. (And yeah, I know you've
taken such pains many, many times.)

I will respond to your post only 80)>

I agree with you and have modified the post for future use,
implementing the suggestions you make.
 
H

Henk de Jong

John Corliss wrote on 6-8-2004 :
There are also
those who through sheer laziness or a desire to simply be disruptive, and
those who are commercial software shills don't care that they are promoting
non-freeware in this group.

I have to agree with this. Based on the link summary by Mark Carter I
see a lot of links to shareware and commercial programs. And those
links are definetly not only examples when there is asked for a
freeware equivalent.
This has been happening with increasing
frequency, so I now repost (edited) a previous message I sent a while back as
a wakeup call to the group and as an expression of *my* opinion. You are free
to disagree, but I will not answer replies to this post.

That is not nice. Only posting your own opninion, without giving the
opportunity to discuss a matter that concerns us all, is not a good
thing to do. But that is just *my* own opinion.
***************************************
Freeware is very clearly defined in my mind as being fully featured
software that was originally intended to be free to use, no strings attached.
What are strings? Any requirement on you the user's part, that are not
related to the actual functioning of the software but which must be done in
order to use the software. This doesn't mean that there aren't types of
non-freeware that shouldn't be recommended as solutions in this group, it's
just that common sense should tell you which that is. Examples of such
software are:

Careware
Donationware
Liteware
Postcardware

These are exactly the types of 'freeware' where our opinions may
differ. When we take a look at the current offer of freeware-programs
on the net, most programs are 'donationware' now. *My* opinion is that
there is nothing wrong with a polite request from the author of the
software to support him or her with a (small) donation. When you are
*free* to do this, and when the software doesn't have any nagscreens
for that donation or isn't crippled in any way, I don't see any
problems for calling it *true* freeware. When we should exclude all
'donationware' the Pricelesswaresites could loose almost 75% of their
contents. I think that asking for a donation is just a development in
the freeware world, and I don't think we can stop this.

I also think about careware and postcardware in the same way.
"Liteware" is something we could discuss in here (ACF).

With kind regards,

--
Henk de Jong
The Netherlands
(e-mail address removed) (Remove _NO_SPAM_)
'Links to Freeware'
http://www.linkstofreeware.vze.com/
http://home.hccnet.nl/hmdejong/
 
B

Bob Adkins

A long time ago, I warned that those who seek to make a profit by
disguising non-freeware as freeware would come into this group and
promote that kind of garbage. They would also attempt to dilute the
definition of freeware to mean something that would serve their
purposes. There are also those who through sheer laziness or a desire
to simply be disruptive, and those who are commercial software shills
don't care that they are promoting non-freeware in this group. This
has been happening with increasing frequency, so I now repost (edited)
a previous message I sent a while back as a wakeup call to the group
and as an expression of *my* opinion. You are free to disagree, but I
will not answer replies to this post.

Awwww, we'll survive it.

Bob
 
B

Bob Adkins

I will respond to your post only 80)>

I agree with you and have modified the post for future use,
implementing the suggestions you make.

That Q us a pretty smart fellow, even if he disagrees with me on nearly
everything. ;)

Bob
 
B

Bob Adkins

Donationware not freeware? How is saying "It's free, but I accept totally
optional donations from those able and willing" not count as free?

I'm glad John didn't mention Beerware. So for the moment, Beerware is
legitimate Freeware! :)

Bob
 
M

Mark Carter

Henk said:
I have to agree with this. Based on the link summary by Mark Carter I
see a lot of links to shareware and commercial programs. And those links
are definetly not only examples when there is asked for a freeware
equivalent.

It may be helpful to consider the "moral intent" of the poster. It can
be royally tedious to be given a link to some software, only to discover
that it is not really freeware at all (this might, of course, be thought
of as especially ironic considering that my daily postings must contain
more non-freeware than most posts!). Anything that works for a limited
time, or is crippled, can be irritating.

OTOH, some crippleware might be useful. For example, I'm currently using
Kerio Personal Firewall, and the "full" free version is about to expire
in a few days. However, I've looked at their website, and it appears
that the only things that will be crippled are a few of its less useful
features. On that basis, I am reasonably happy to have it called "freeware".

To give another example, there was/is a discussion about finance apps in
this group. This was of interest to me, because I thought that the
current app that I was using (Quicken) was a bit limited in its handling
of portfolios. Looking at some of the freeware links that had been
suggested, it became apparent that there probably wasn't a better
freeware replacement than the one I already had. So when someone
suggested that buying Quicken/MS Money was a better alternative than the
freeware on offer, I thought that this was a reasonable statement to
make. It helps that these apps are quite cheap (£20 mark). If they had
been much more expensive, then the remark would perhaps have been
regarded as being unhelpful.
 
B

Barney

JanC wrote:

/Veign schreef:
/
// Or Postcardware not considered freeware?. If you like the
//application send us a postcard - the application still functions
//with or without and the users are not forced to send...
//
// I distribute all my software as Postcardware and I consider this
// freeware as I force nothing upon my users....
/
/Some programmers require sending a postcard to keep using it, that
/wouldn't be real freeware, if you don't force anything, then there is
/no problem I think... ;-)
\



As long as no restrictions apply. The postcard should be nothing more
then a courteousy.
 

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