WGA Notifications Current News Please

[Leythos]

LOL! Even accepting what you consider to be "one or two" false
positives a month being reported in this group, consider that maybe
.0001% of Windows users even know about this group. Then do the math.

That is way too many people being screwed in my book. I'm sure you book
doesn't give a sh*t about people getting screwed by WGA.

In my line of work I don't see it as a problem, don't hear of it in real
experiences with people/clients I have contact with, and it appears that
the vast majority of people that have problems are self inflicted. They
either purchased a machine with pirated OS, virus corrupted something,
they changed their hardware enough to cause a re-activation, they tried
to move their OEM OS to another motherboard/machine without the OEM's
approval, etc...

MS is scum, and seems to hate its paying customers.

There seem to be a lot of people paying for MS products using them to
make a lot of money with little or no impact caused by WGA. I have yet
to find a vendor with as many products used by as many people that
doesn't have problems at the same level, so I don't see how "Scum" is
justified. Their products work fine, run well, are stable, but, as with
everything, can be abused, made unstable, etc...

If you got off the hype trail and started with just facts you would
carry a lot more weight with the reasonably intelligent crowd, rather
than the zealots and hype crowd.

 

[-Alias-]

In my line of work I don't see it as a problem, don't hear of it in real
experiences with people/clients I have contact with, and it appears that
the vast majority of people that have problems are self inflicted. They
either purchased a machine with pirated OS, virus corrupted something,
they changed their hardware enough to cause a re-activation, they tried
to move their OEM OS to another motherboard/machine without the OEM's
approval, etc...


There seem to be a lot of people paying for MS products using them to
make a lot of money with little or no impact caused by WGA. I have yet
to find a vendor with as many products used by as many people that
doesn't have problems at the same level, so I don't see how "Scum" is
justified. Their products work fine, run well, are stable, but, as with
everything, can be abused, made unstable, etc...

Then the only reason MS has several tools to fix problems with WGA is
because the programmers were bored and had nothing else to do? Are you
saying that WGA is flawless and, if so, why were tools made by MS to fix
the damned thing?

WGA has no benefit, either for the user or for MS. The user may have to
jump through the fix WGA's screw ups tools and MS is earning a bad
reputation as a greedy organization that doesn't care one whit for its
paying customers.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

Then the only reason MS has several tools to fix problems with WGA is
because the programmers were bored and had nothing else to do? Are you
saying that WGA is flawless and, if so, why were tools made by MS to fix
the damned thing?

Why do you always take things down an alternative path - at no point
have I said that WGAN is perfect, in fact, I've even said that I believe
there have been false positives.

WGA has no benefit, either for the user or for MS. The user may have to
jump through the fix WGA's screw ups tools and MS is earning a bad
reputation as a greedy organization that doesn't care one whit for its
paying customers.

Until you run a business for Profit or sell a product for Profit it
appears you would not understand the merit in trying to stop
pirates/thieves, at least that's the way it appears from your constant
statements.

Greed is not part of getting paid for your product.

 

[-Alias-]

Why do you always take things down an alternative path - at no point
have I said that WGAN is perfect, in fact, I've even said that I believe
there have been false positives.

Then we agree. Good.

Until you run a business for Profit or sell a product for Profit it
appears you would not understand the merit in trying to stop
pirates/thieves, at least that's the way it appears from your constant
statements.

MS products were easily copied until they became the dominant OS/Office
Suite. Need I say more regarding their morality or lack thereof? Those
billions weren't enough so when their product became dominant, they are
milking it for all it's worth. The pathetic thing is it will backfire on
them because accusing your paying customers with theft and forcing them
to prove they are not thieves five times now and counting isn't a really
good PR move to say the least.

Greed is not part of getting paid for your product.

Yeah, and everything that goes up must go down.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

MS products were easily copied until they became the dominant OS/Office
Suite. Need I say more regarding their morality or lack thereof?

I don't see any morality issues it in, but I do see an ethics issue with
people that believe users should get as many concurrent installs of a
product just because the are home users, when the licensing clearly
states one computer/one install, etc..

Those
billions weren't enough so when their product became dominant, they are
milking it for all it's worth.

And in a Free Market, like most of the companies in the work, they have
every right to charge what the market is willing to pay for their
product.

The pathetic thing is it will backfire on
them because accusing your paying customers with theft and forcing them
to prove they are not thieves five times now and counting isn't a really
good PR move to say the least.

You're wrong, businesses, the majority of them, are not even considering
moving away from MS products if they are already using them. In fact,
most home users that purchase packaged machines are not asking for non-
MS software/packages.

The time when things change will be marked by a FREE OS that provides
support for 90% of the hardware users are using (things from 5 years ago
to todays systems) and that comes with free support and free drivers and
such.

The current FREE OS's and Applications, while quite good, are not good
enough at working with MS formats to give reason to switch for most
users of MS products.

So, you see, if you take the hype/blinders off, as long as MS products
have a reasonable price, and they do currently or most people would not
be using them, they will be strong in the market.

 

[Frank]

Leythos wrote:
|| In article <#[email protected]>, (e-mail address removed) says...
||| MS products were easily copied until they became the dominant
||| OS/Office Suite. Need I say more regarding their morality or lack
||| thereof?
||
|| I don't see any morality issues it in, but I do see an ethics issue
|| with people that believe users should get as many concurrent
|| installs of a product just because the are home users, when the
|| licensing clearly states one computer/one install, etc..
||
||| Those
||| billions weren't enough so when their product became dominant, they
||| are milking it for all it's worth.
||
|| And in a Free Market, like most of the companies in the work, they
|| have every right to charge what the market is willing to pay for
|| their product.
||
||| The pathetic thing is it will backfire on
||| them because accusing your paying customers with theft and forcing
||| them to prove they are not thieves five times now and counting
||| isn't a really good PR move to say the least.
||
|| You're wrong, businesses, the majority of them, are not even
|| considering moving away from MS products if they are already using
|| them. In fact, most home users that purchase packaged machines are
|| not asking for non- MS software/packages.
||
|| The time when things change will be marked by a FREE OS that provides
|| support for 90% of the hardware users are using (things from 5 years
|| ago to todays systems) and that comes with free support and free
|| drivers and such.
||
|| The current FREE OS's and Applications, while quite good, are not
|| good enough at working with MS formats to give reason to switch for
|| most users of MS products.
||
|| So, you see, if you take the hype/blinders off, as long as MS
|| products have a reasonable price, and they do currently or most
|| people would not be using them, they will be strong in the market.
||
Price has nothing to do with the "robber baron" tactics of Microsoft.
Go into any big box store, there will be hundreds of computers with
Windows preinstalled. Windows is reasonably priced for the big boys,
but not for someone that goes into a store and buys a Windows CD.
If you are under the age of 45 you will pay dearly for verbally abeting
these big corporations, Wake up.....

 

[Charlie Tame]

Leythos wrote:
|| In article <#[email protected]>, (e-mail address removed) says...
||| MS products were easily copied until they became the dominant
||| OS/Office Suite. Need I say more regarding their morality or lack
||| thereof?
||
|| I don't see any morality issues it in, but I do see an ethics issue
|| with people that believe users should get as many concurrent
|| installs of a product just because the are home users, when the
|| licensing clearly states one computer/one install, etc..
||
||| Those
||| billions weren't enough so when their product became dominant, they
||| are milking it for all it's worth.
||
|| And in a Free Market, like most of the companies in the work, they
|| have every right to charge what the market is willing to pay for
|| their product.
||
||| The pathetic thing is it will backfire on
||| them because accusing your paying customers with theft and forcing
||| them to prove they are not thieves five times now and counting
||| isn't a really good PR move to say the least.
||
|| You're wrong, businesses, the majority of them, are not even
|| considering moving away from MS products if they are already using
|| them. In fact, most home users that purchase packaged machines are
|| not asking for non- MS software/packages.
||
|| The time when things change will be marked by a FREE OS that provides
|| support for 90% of the hardware users are using (things from 5 years
|| ago to todays systems) and that comes with free support and free
|| drivers and such.
||
|| The current FREE OS's and Applications, while quite good, are not
|| good enough at working with MS formats to give reason to switch for
|| most users of MS products.
||
|| So, you see, if you take the hype/blinders off, as long as MS
|| products have a reasonable price, and they do currently or most
|| people would not be using them, they will be strong in the market.
||
Price has nothing to do with the "robber baron" tactics of Microsoft.
Go into any big box store, there will be hundreds of computers with
Windows preinstalled. Windows is reasonably priced for the big boys,
but not for someone that goes into a store and buys a Windows CD.
If you are under the age of 45 you will pay dearly for verbally abeting
these big corporations, Wake up.....

What a silly argument, gas is overpriced, are you attacking Halliburton? Do
your think Dick Cheney cares what you think about his profits? The
difference is you can get an operating system for the price of one blank CD
by going to www.debian.org but you won't get free gas anywhere, if you want
to start on with monopolies etc try picking on a real one. Course, they you
pay in time for the learning curve if you don't know Linux but life's like
that sometimes, I guess you pay one way or the other eh?

Charlie

 

[-Alias-]

I don't see any morality issues it in, but I do see an ethics issue with
people that believe users should get as many concurrent installs of a
product just because the are home users, when the licensing clearly
states one computer/one install, etc..

Call it what you want but MS wanted people to pirate pre XP OSs so that
they could be the dominant OS on the market.

And in a Free Market, like most of the companies in the work, they have
every right to charge what the market is willing to pay for their
product.

That doesn't give them a good reason to abuse their paying customers.

You're wrong, businesses, the majority of them, are not even considering
moving away from MS products if they are already using them. In fact,
most home users that purchase packaged machines are not asking for non-
MS software/packages.

The time when things change will be marked by a FREE OS that provides
support for 90% of the hardware users are using (things from 5 years ago
to todays systems) and that comes with free support and free drivers and
such.

The current FREE OS's and Applications, while quite good, are not good
enough at working with MS formats to give reason to switch for most
users of MS products.

So, you see, if you take the hype/blinders off, as long as MS products
have a reasonable price, and they do currently or most people would not
be using them, they will be strong in the market.

I predict that Vista will be a flop and the beginning of the end for MS.
Time will tell. Most businesses will not upgrade. I know I won't. Only
the clueless home users will buy an HP/Dell with a pre-installed version
of Vista. "You can fool some of the people all of the time; part of the
people some of the time; but, you can't fool all of the people all of
the time". I think Abraham Lincoln said that.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

Call it what you want but MS wanted people to pirate pre XP OSs so that
they could be the dominant OS on the market.

Actually, they got to be the dominate because of methods used with
resellers - in the early days a reseller could not sell any other OS and
still sell MS products. They also made it cheap for OEM's to
purchase/install the OS and make a profit on systems. They also provided
Educational licensing that made it cheap for kids / teachers to get the
full OS and Office products, very cheap.

That doesn't give them a good reason to abuse their paying customers.

I'm sure I "Own" a lot more licenses that you do and I don't feel
abused. I'm sure that my clients own a lot of licenses and don't feel
abused.

There are a lot worse companies selling software out there than MS.

I predict that Vista will be a flop and the beginning of the end for MS.
Time will tell. Most businesses will not upgrade. I know I won't. Only
the clueless home users will buy an HP/Dell with a pre-installed version
of Vista. "You can fool some of the people all of the time; part of the
people some of the time; but, you can't fool all of the people all of
the time". I think Abraham Lincoln said that.

I don't see people moving to Vista for another reason, it just doesn't
offer anything that would give most a reason to change. It's not more
secure, doesn't offer administrators any real benefits in management
that we don't already have, and requires more hardware resources.

WGA will have nothing to do with poor sales of Vista, but I expect that
many of the MS bashers will claim it does.

 

[-Alias-]

Actually, they got to be the dominate because of methods used with
resellers - in the early days a reseller could not sell any other OS and
still sell MS products. They also made it cheap for OEM's to
purchase/install the OS and make a profit on systems. They also provided
Educational licensing that made it cheap for kids / teachers to get the
full OS and Office products, very cheap.

True but the main reason was allowing piracy. Don't tell me that the
programmers at MS didn't know how to prevent piracy back in 98.

I'm sure I "Own" a lot more licenses that you do and I don't feel
abused. I'm sure that my clients own a lot of licenses and don't feel
abused.

That must have something to do with where you have your head. Most
reasonable people don't want to be forced to prove they bought XP five
times. Your millage must vary.

There are a lot worse companies selling software out there than MS.

That doesn't make what MS is doing a good thing.

I don't see people moving to Vista for another reason, it just doesn't
offer anything that would give most a reason to change. It's not more
secure, doesn't offer administrators any real benefits in management
that we don't already have, and requires more hardware resources.

I wrote, and I quote: "Most businesses will not upgrade".

WGA will have nothing to do with poor sales of Vista, but I expect that
many of the MS bashers will claim it does.

Vista will come riddled with DRM crap and you know it.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

True but the main reason was allowing piracy. Don't tell me that the
programmers at MS didn't know how to prevent piracy back in 98.

I've seen people/vendors try and prevent piracy for decades, since the
80's, and seen just about every type of hardware/software method out
there. None of them are perfect, even hardware dongles go bad and cause
people without a support contract to eat downtime etc...

I've not seen a perfect piracy protection scheme, but I've seen a lot
more that are mostly effective since the internet became common for most
users of computers.

I don't believe that MS permitted piracy in order to gain users to gain
market share.

That must have something to do with where you have your head. Most
reasonable people don't want to be forced to prove they bought XP five
times. Your millage must vary.

I don't know anyone that's been required to "Prove" more than once, that
they bought XP. As a matter of fact, without WGAN installed, users don't
have to prove anything unless they reinstall or make known significant
systems changes which activate the checking again, and then, as long as
they have followed the licensing, it's not a problem to stay licensed.

That doesn't make what MS is doing a good thing.

And it doesn't make it a good or bad thing, but I see it mostly as a
good thing. It means that for the first time people are going to
understand that Piracy is not something to be ignored, that it impacts
people all over the world, that it does cost businesses sales/profits
which could be used to improve a product or develop a new one, it also
means that fewer people will get screwed by a pirate.

I wrote, and I quote: "Most businesses will not upgrade".

You also wrote, which I quoted: "I predict that Vista will be a flop and
the beginning of the end for MS" and I don't agree, as I stated. It
won't be the end or the beginning of the end for MS, it just means they
will have to make vista give more value before people purchase it, it's
don't put much of a dent in MS profits.

Vista will come riddled with DRM crap and you know it.

So, unless you pirate media you don't have much to worry about, and if
you do, you can always run Linux on your pirate machines.

 

[kurttrail]

In my line of work I don't see it as a problem, don't hear of it in
real experiences with people/clients I have contact with, and it
appears that the vast majority of people that have problems are self
inflicted. They either purchased a machine with pirated OS, virus
corrupted something, they changed their hardware enough to cause a
re-activation, they tried to move their OEM OS to another
motherboard/machine without the OEM's approval, etc...


There seem to be a lot of people paying for MS products using them to
make a lot of money with little or no impact caused by WGA. I have yet
to find a vendor with as many products used by as many people that
doesn't have problems at the same level, so I don't see how "Scum" is
justified. Their products work fine, run well, are stable, but, as
with everything, can be abused, made unstable, etc...

If you got off the hype trail and started with just facts you would
carry a lot more weight with the reasonably intelligent crowd, rather
than the zealots and hype crowd.

I tried. You went off on your rap about self-inflicted WGA problems,
totally ignoring those that have real problems. You don't care about
them. You are even more of a scumbag as MS.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[kurttrail]

What a silly argument, gas is overpriced, are you attacking
Halliburton? Do your think Dick Cheney cares what you think about his
profits? The difference is you can get an operating system for the
price of one blank CD by going to www.debian.org but you won't get
free gas anywhere, if you want to start on with monopolies etc try
picking on a real one. Course, they you pay in time for the learning
curve if you don't know Linux but life's like that sometimes, I guess
you pay one way or the other eh?
Charlie

Microsoft is a REAL monopoly according to various courts and
goverenments on three different continents!

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[Charlie Tame]

Charlie Tame wrote:


Microsoft is a REAL monopoly according to various courts and goverenments
on three different continents!

So where do you get your free gas from? How are you forced to use MS
products?

 

[kurttrail]

So where do you get your free gas from?

LOL! What the hell are you talking about. We arre talking about paying
customers getting screw by MS and its malware.

How are you forced to use MS
products?

Many ways. I've stated them many times before, so go google.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[-Alias-]

I've seen people/vendors try and prevent piracy for decades, since the
80's, and seen just about every type of hardware/software method out
there. None of them are perfect, even hardware dongles go bad and cause
people without a support contract to eat downtime etc...

I've not seen a perfect piracy protection scheme, but I've seen a lot
more that are mostly effective since the internet became common for most
users of computers.

I don't believe that MS permitted piracy in order to gain users to gain
market share.

LOL! Why did they permit it, then? Generosity? Stupidity? What do you
believe the reason was?

I don't know anyone that's been required to "Prove" more than once, that
they bought XP

Really? Ever hear of the four WGAs and the one WPA? Last I checked, 4
and 1 are 5. You can add another one: when I paid for the license I
proved that I have a legit copy.

.. As a matter of fact, without WGAN installed, users don't

have to prove anything unless they reinstall or make known significant
systems changes which activate the checking again, and then, as long as
they have followed the licensing, it's not a problem to stay licensed.

WGA, in all it's flavors, is a test to prove that they copy of Windows
that you're using is legit or not. So is WPA.

And it doesn't make it a good or bad thing, but I see it mostly as a
good thing. It means that for the first time people are going to
understand that Piracy is not something to be ignored, that it impacts
people all over the world, that it does cost businesses sales/profits
which could be used to improve a product or develop a new one, it also
means that fewer people will get screwed by a pirate.

Um, if MS thinks that someone is stealing their software, they don't
have a right to play policeman and should call the proper authorities to
report the theft. Forcing paying customers to aid MS in catching thieves
is not cool and will be their downfall.

You also wrote, which I quoted: "I predict that Vista will be a flop and
the beginning of the end for MS" and I don't agree, as I stated. It
won't be the end or the beginning of the end for MS, it just means they
will have to make vista give more value before people purchase it, it's
don't put much of a dent in MS profits.

Mark my words.

So, unless you pirate media you don't have much to worry about, and if
you do, you can always run Linux on your pirate machines.

You don't get it. I don't want to be forced to prove that I have a legit
copy of XP. I proved that when I forked over the hard earned cash! If MS
wants to know if my copy is legit, they can get a court order to search
my place and they will be shown the receipt and the legit CDs. Using
flawed software and forcing me to install this flawed software on my
work stations is NOT OK.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

You don't get it. I don't want to be forced to prove that I have a legit
copy of XP. I proved that when I forked over the hard earned cash! If MS
wants to know if my copy is legit, they can get a court order to search
my place and they will be shown the receipt and the legit CDs. Using
flawed software and forcing me to install this flawed software on my
work stations is NOT OK.

And the same thing happens at the Movies, when you enter a sports event,
etc, the vendor, since you know about it and continue to use / purchase,
has your approval to continue.

If you really had a problem with it, as much as you claim, you would not
be supporting MS by continuing to purchase their products for your own
use.

WGA has little impact for the majority of legit owners, and that's been
show to be true - only a very small number of users are actually
impacted by WGA/WGAN.

 

[kurttrail]

And the same thing happens at the Movies, when you enter a sports
event, etc, the vendor, since you know about it and continue to use /
purchase, has your approval to continue.

If you really had a problem with it, as much as you claim, you would
not be supporting MS by continuing to purchase their products for
your own use.

LOL! Comparing one time events in a theatre or arena to using
copyrighted material on a daily basis in your own home!

The more apt comparison would be comparing your brain to a lump of sh*t,
as that is at least comparing two like things!

WGA has little impact for the majority of legit owners, and that's
been show to be true - only a very small number of users are actually
impacted by WGA/WGAN.

ROFL! Who has shown to be true that "WGA has little impact for the
majority of legit owners?"

Microsoft and its sycophantic press? Your delusions? Little green men
from Uranus?

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[Leythos]

LOL! Comparing one time events in a theatre or arena to using
copyrighted material on a daily basis in your own home!

Funny, I've been checked for a ticket stub several times at events and
movies, but you can't get past the entry door without a ticket, so why
do they keep checking?

The more apt comparison would be comparing your brain to a lump of sh*t,
as that is at least comparing two like things!

I see, so when you fail to have a point you resort to foul comments.
It's a very good sign that you've failed and know it.

ROFL! Who has shown to be true that "WGA has little impact for the
majority of legit owners?"

The fact that there is little uproar about it, the fact that only a
small handful of people are complaining about it.... Much like the ones
complaining about the Patriot Act.

Microsoft and its sycophantic press? Your delusions? Little green men
from Uranus?

I don't ready MS Press or their mags/articles, but I do follow tech news
sources.

 

[-Alias-]

And the same thing happens at the Movies, when you enter a sports event,
etc, the vendor, since you know about it and continue to use / purchase,
has your approval to continue.

Huh? I have yet to have a movie theater require me to install anything
on my computer.

If you really had a problem with it, as much as you claim, you would not
be supporting MS by continuing to purchase their products for your own
use.

I don't have the time to learn another OS and when I bought XP, I was
not informed that I would also be fighting piracy for MS.

WGA has little impact for the majority of legit owners, and that's been
show to be true - only a very small number of users are actually
impacted by WGA/WGAN.

Just the fact that I have to take the time to install it four times and
worry about it f*cking up my computer is enough reason not to have it.
Like I said, MS has NO RIGHT to require that its paying customers fight
piracy for them. Period. That's the job of the legal authorities. Full
f*cking stop.

Alias