Shrink Wrap my EULA ?

[Leythos]

Speak for yourself Gaythos!

There you go again - great contribution to the group.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

hey , i have an even better solution . why doesn't microsoft stop this
deceptive marketing practice ?

A common practice that has been well-known to have been in use
throughout the software industry for many years can hardly be called
"deceptive." If a consumer is not aware of the limitations of OEM
software licensing, it is only because that consumer deliberately chose
to remain willfully ignorant. Any consumer with a lick of sense
researchs the product *before* making the purchase. Those that don't
have no one to blame but themselves.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Tom]

A common practice that has been well-known to have been in use
throughout the software industry for many years can hardly be called
"deceptive." If a consumer is not aware of the limitations of OEM
software licensing, it is only because that consumer deliberately chose
to remain willfully ignorant. Any consumer with a lick of sense
researchs the product *before* making the purchase. Those that don't
have no one to blame but themselves.

So, it isn't shown until you unwrap the product, install it, then agree/disagree to it! If they disagree, how do they return it since it is OEM, and MS doesn't supprt them though they have gall to enforce their EULA in it?

 

[kurttrail]

There you go again - great contribution to the group.

Just not in the way you think. Lamers, spell lamers, grammar lamers,
and netiquette lamers, are worse than trolls ever are! At least trolls
provide comic relief! Lamers are never funny, they are just LAME.

Especially when they are just as guilty.

Example: snipping up a post you are replying to, without acknowledging
the snip, isn't very good netiquette either. Personally, I don't care,
and usually only point out when the snipping changes the meaning of what
was actually written.

You are hypocritical lamer, the "do as I say, not as I do" kind! Worry
about yourself, Lamethos!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

A common practice that has been well-known to have been in use
throughout the software industry for many years can hardly be called
"deceptive." If a consumer is not aware of the limitations of OEM
software licensing, it is only because that consumer deliberately
chose to remain willfully ignorant. Any consumer with a lick of sense
researchs the product *before* making the purchase. Those that don't
have no one to blame but themselves.

And a company that sells copyrighted material to private non-commercial
individuals should know that consumers are gonna "fairly use" them. Any
copyright owner with a lick of sense that doesn't want their copyrighted
material "fairly used" shouldn't sell their copyrighted material to
private non-commerial individuals.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

So, it isn't shown until you unwrap the product, install it, then
agree/disagree to it! If they disagree, how do they return it since
it is OEM, and MS doesn't supprt them though they have gall to
enforce their EULA in it?

MS knows no shame. They don't even take responsiblity for when PA
screws up someone's system, eventhough no consumer has any need for PA,
and PA is forced on them.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Alias]

I wonder why Mike hasn't replied. Has this post been censored too?
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

So, it isn't shown until you unwrap the product, install it, then agree/disagree to it! If they disagree, how do they return it since it is OEM, and MS doesn't supprt them though they have gall to enforce their EULA in it?

Why does something that's common knowledge have to be shown on the
wrapper? Do you step outside at dawn each and every morning to verify
that the sun does indeed "rise in the east?"

As for the return policies of the software vendor, is there any
particular reason the purchaser was prevented from asking about them in
advance? Don't blame Microsoft because a consumer lacks common sense.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Usingthis]

Perhaps he assumed, correctly, that he could help someone who wasn't a
troll.

 

[jmw]

If your concern is not being able to read the EULA prior to purchase we also
publish it at
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/eula.mspx
and
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/eula.mspx

Yes this is the retail version but the general licensing terms are the
same - one copy one machine etc.

AIUI MS has only published the eula recently on their web site *after*
they were forced to by a court case. Until then the standard response
from Microsoft has been that the *only* way to see it was to get a
copy.

 

[jmw]

If it's within 30 days of the purchase, you can return it to Microsoft.

Does this apply to OEM copies, or only retail copies?

 

[Alias]

Are you calling me a troll?

Oh my, whatever will I do????

I guess you don't have any logical replies either, being as you have
resorted to an ad hominem attack. How amateurish of you!

 

[kurttrail]

Perhaps he assumed, correctly, that he could help someone who wasn't a
troll.

Ooh! You called him a troll! It must be correct if you think that!

Who are you?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

Why does something that's common knowledge have to be shown on the
wrapper? Do you step outside at dawn each and every morning to verify
that the sun does indeed "rise in the east?"

As for the return policies of the software vendor, is there any
particular reason the purchaser was prevented from asking about them
in advance? Don't blame Microsoft because a consumer lacks common
sense.

Some people that "fair use" is common knowledge, especially when it
comes to the use of a copyrighted work in the home.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[D.Currie]

hey , i have an even better solution . why doesn't microsoft stop this
deceptive marketing practice ?

What you'd like MS to do and what they would do are probably two different
things. MS created the OEM software for system builders, not for consumers,
and it's packaged for system builders. The system builders don't need to see
the EULA on the outside of the package for a lot of reasons. For one, if
they're in the business of building computers, one would imagine they'd seen
it more than once. And even if they never saw it, it wouldn't matter all
that much, as they aren't the ones who need to agree to it, their customers
do. And when a system builder buys the product, it comes in a sealed
cardboard box with multiple copies of the OS, so if the eula was on the
outside the shrinkwrap, the builder couldn't see it anyway, until he opened
the cardboard box. And, by the way, once that box is opened, none of the
distributors will take any of the product back. So the system builder has to
know what's inside the cardboard before he opens it, never mind the
shrinkwrap.

If MS got enough complaints from individual consumers about the packaging of
the single OEM product or anything else you've brought up, their easiest
course of action would be to tighten up the sale of the oem product, and
pretty soon you'd have no choice but to buy retail at the higher price. I
doubt that's your goal.

When you buy your own parts, build your own computer, and buy oem software,
you "become" the oem. You're responsible for your own support, warranty,
etc. It's like the difference between building a house with a general
contractor or you becoming the general contractor. If you screw up and buy
too much or too little of something as the general contractor, saying that
you didn't understand the math and you're due some compensation isn't going
to fly. If you're going to build your own computer, you take some of the
responsibility for what you buy. If you called a company online and ordered
an Athlon processor and a P4 motherboard, it wouldn't be their
responsibility to tell you they don't match.

Personally, I think a multi-use license for the OS would be a fine thing.
But no matter how they did it, MS would have people complaining. If all the
new software was legal for two installs, you'd get people with one computer
complaining that they were forced to buy two licenses when they only needed
one.

 

[kurttrail]

What you'd like MS to do and what they would do are probably two
different things. MS created the OEM software for system builders,
not for consumers, and it's packaged for system builders. The system
builders don't need to see the EULA on the outside of the package for
a lot of reasons. For one, if they're in the business of building
computers, one would imagine they'd seen it more than once. And even
if they never saw it, it wouldn't matter all that much, as they
aren't the ones who need to agree to it, their customers do. And when
a system builder buys the product, it comes in a sealed cardboard box
with multiple copies of the OS, so if the eula was on the outside the
shrinkwrap, the builder couldn't see it anyway, until he opened the
cardboard box. And, by the way, once that box is opened, none of the
distributors will take any of the product back. So the system builder
has to know what's inside the cardboard before he opens it, never
mind the shrinkwrap.
If MS got enough complaints from individual consumers about the
packaging of the single OEM product or anything else you've brought
up, their easiest course of action would be to tighten up the sale of
the oem product, and pretty soon you'd have no choice but to buy
retail at the higher price. I doubt that's your goal.

When you buy your own parts, build your own computer, and buy oem
software, you "become" the oem. You're responsible for your own
support, warranty, etc. It's like the difference between building a
house with a general contractor or you becoming the general
contractor. If you screw up and buy too much or too little of
something as the general contractor, saying that you didn't
understand the math and you're due some compensation isn't going to
fly. If you're going to build your own computer, you take some of the
responsibility for what you buy. If you called a company online and
ordered an Athlon processor and a P4 motherboard, it wouldn't be
their responsibility to tell you they don't match.
Personally, I think a multi-use license for the OS would be a fine
thing. But no matter how they did it, MS would have people
complaining. If all the new software was legal for two installs,
you'd get people with one computer complaining that they were forced
to buy two licenses when they only needed one.

Yeah, the much simpler way, would be to acknowledge "fair use" by
non-commercial private individuals, and leaving the EULA as a
commerical-use license.

Since MS has no right to know what people do in their homes, in the
first place, that would be the easier and cheaper solution, than
implementing PA and WGA and trying to convince people that MS has the
right to strip individuals of the right to "fair use" by post-sale
shrinkwrap license, without proving that they can through existing laws,
or court precedents.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

I wonder why Mike hasn't replied. Has this post been censored too?

I have not replied as I have no interest in continuing in this pointless
discussion. The EULA is clear about our licensing, and purchasers of OEM
software are also addressed as regards their license etc in the EULA
displayed at install time.

--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

 

[Tom]

Why does something that's common knowledge have to be shown on the
wrapper? Do you step outside at dawn each and every morning to verify
that the sun does indeed "rise in the east?"

As for the return policies of the software vendor, is there any
particular reason the purchaser was prevented from asking about them in
advance? Don't blame Microsoft because a consumer lacks common sense.

Common knowledge my butt, what kind of reply is that, other than towing the MS line? Not everyone Bruce, knows what the EULA stands for, and it would benefit the consumer if the EULA were printed on a hard copy that came with the package (preferably outside) for reviewing, with the caveat of what "accepting the agreement" entails. Maybe this can be included with the MS adage "Trustworthy Computing"!

Your analogy is horrible, as nature doesn't lay hidden rules or work with a directive, it is just there! The fact that one has to read the EULA after opening, and installing the package, can make a return impossible, when that can be easily stated on a hard copy, then for the consumer to decide. It just smacks of guaranteeing money for MS when the return is made invalid!!!

 

[Alias]

I have not replied as I have no interest in continuing in this pointless
discussion. The EULA is clear about our licensing, and purchasers of OEM
software are also addressed as regards their license etc in the EULA
displayed at install time.

--

Regards,

Mike

I see. Paying customers' complaints and suggestions are a "pointless
discussion" that you have no interest in because MS has their policy and if
I don't like, I can go f*ck myself. Thank you for clearing that up and I
must say I am not surprised at the policy or your non answers to my
legitimate questions (below).

 

[kurttrail]

I have not replied as I have no interest in continuing in this
pointless discussion. The EULA is clear about our licensing, and
purchasers of OEM software are also addressed as regards their
license etc in the EULA displayed at install time.

Which, at that point, is too late for the software to be returned for a
refund.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"