Shrink Wrap my EULA ?

[Frank]

thats not what I ordered , and where are my fries ?

2 + years ago I bought all the components for the computer i'm using now ,
including win xp pro oem .

according to what i was told i was entitled to purchase an oem version since
i was purchasing it with more than what qualified me too .

it IS a REAL MS WIN XP PRO oem package , not a manufacturers copy .

the only thing it says on the shrinkwrapped booklet is "For Distribution
only with a new PC " .

NOWHERE on the cover does it say ANYTHING about it being a licence for just
one pc . would you like me to post the front and back covers ?

OK , dispute this .

EULA stands for:
Elective Use Lawyer Assisted

Pretty simple huh.
Frank

 

[D.Currie]

Does this apply to OEM copies, or only retail copies?

Retail.

Since the oem software is bound to the computer, you'd probably have to
return the whole machine to the oem, depending on what their return policies
are. If you built the computer, you are the oem, so you'd really have no one
to return it to, unless the person who sold you the software was willing to
take it back. Most of them aren't because the key is visible on the
packaging, and it would be simple for someone to buy the software, write
down the key, return the software, and use that key on additional installs
of whatever matching software he has.

 

[D.Currie]

Yeah, the much simpler way, would be to acknowledge "fair use" by
non-commercial private individuals, and leaving the EULA as a
commerical-use license.

Since MS has no right to know what people do in their homes, in the first
place, that would be the easier and cheaper solution, than implementing PA
and WGA and trying to convince people that MS has the right to strip
individuals of the right to "fair use" by post-sale shrinkwrap license,
without proving that they can through existing laws, or court precedents.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

I think anyone with a working brain cell realizes that there's a vast gray
area between the letter of the "law" and what actually gets enforced. Most
people take every possible tax deduction, and might forget that $10 raffle
they won, but they aren't going to claim everyone in the cemetery as a
dependent.

MS isn't going to break into people's houses and see what they have on their
computers, but they are going to go after people who buy one CD and start
pressing and selling their own versions.

In either case, the strict interpretation probably has to stay on the books,
or you get that slippery slope and then none of it is enforceable. But
sensible people know that you aren't going to jail for the small stuff.

Multiple family/home licenses would be a nice thing, but I'm not holding my
breath.

 

[Raymond J. Johnson Jr.]

Why does something that's common knowledge have to be shown on the
wrapper? Do you step outside at dawn each and every morning to verify
that the sun does indeed "rise in the east?"

As for the return policies of the software vendor, is there any
particular reason the purchaser was prevented from asking about them in
advance? Don't blame Microsoft because a consumer lacks common sense.

You go so far out to defend MS that it would be sickening if it weren't
so funny.

 

[Woody]

<Don't blame Microsoft because a consumer lacks common sense>

bruce , please keep replying . everytime you do just proves my point and all
these other people replying to your posts just further the cause .
seriousely , thank you ;-)

 

[Don Burnette]

Speak for yourself Gaythos! I understood who he was talking to, and
what he was talking about.

You are just a lamer!

And your a thief.
I'll take lamer any day...

 

[Don Burnette]

Just not in the way you think. Lamers, spell lamers, grammar lamers,
and netiquette lamers, are worse than trolls ever are! At least
trolls provide comic relief! Lamers are never funny, they are just
LAME.
Especially when they are just as guilty.

Example: snipping up a post you are replying to, without
acknowledging the snip, isn't very good netiquette either. Personally, I
don't care, and usually only point out when the
snipping changes the meaning of what was actually written.

You are hypocritical lamer, the "do as I say, not as I do" kind! Worry
about yourself, Lamethos!

Once a thief, always a thief Cottentail.

 

[Don Burnette]

Ya'll could, at the very least, put the generic OEM EULA on the web,
as many consumers are purchasing that version over the retail version
over the net. Buying XP, in some case, $150 dollars less the msrp of
a retail copy.

And let's face it, your companies 2 free support calls, and to free
support emails aren't worth $150, especially since most support
problems are pawn off on other software and/or hardware.

How would you know or even care? You don't purchase MS software remember?
You only steal it...

 

[Don Burnette]

MS knows no shame. They don't even take responsiblity for when PA
screws up someone's system, eventhough no consumer has any need for
PA, and PA is forced on them.

Whatever, you have been stating that blatant lie for a long time now.
I have changed my system many, many times, and PA has not once screwed up my
system.

BUT, you with your pirated copies, who knows...
Thief. Liar.

 

[Kelly]

It won't matter in the end, Don. Enjoy what does. )

--
All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

 

[Don Burnette]

Very true Kelly, very true...



Don

It won't matter in the end, Don. Enjoy what does. )

 

[kurttrail]

Whatever, you have been stating that blatant lie for a long time now.
I have changed my system many, many times, and PA has not once
screwed up my system.

I find the "it works for me" attitude to be callous at best.

Below is an incomplete list of error codes that have accompanied various
different license check errors.

0x80090006 - http://snipurl.com/990a


0x80070002 - http://snipurl.com/990d


0x80004005 - http://snipurl.com/990e


0X800700C1 - http://snipurl.com/990g


0x8007007e - http://snipurl.com/990i


0x80070003 - http://snipurl.com/990m


0x80090019 - http://snipurl.com/990o


0x8007007f - http://snipurl.com/990t

BUT, you with your pirated copies, who knows...
Thief. Liar.

Personally, I have had only one license check error and that was when XP
was in Preview. It was either Beta 2, or RC1.

But reading this group over the years, I seen too many people have
problems with PA. And assuming that they are all thiefs and liars is
down right disgusting!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

Once a thief, always a thief Cottentail.

Prove it. Make a citizens arrest. My address is in the archive of this
group.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

And your a thief.
I'll take lamer any day...

Watch out Lamethos, Don wants to take you as his lover!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

How would you know or even care? You don't purchase MS software
remember?

I do see prices on the internet. Unlike you, I try keep myself
informed. I am a advocate for my fellow human beings who are consumers
of MS software, unlike the likes of you, who are advocates for a godless
corporate entity. One that is not only a proven predatory monopoly, but
one that is a proven infringer of other patents and copyrights!

You only steal it...

LOL!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Woody]

wow don , your contributions to this discussion have been truly outstanding
;-P

 

[zibby]

When you buy a car, where on its cover (i.e., its body) is the warranty
printed? You have to look "inside".

But it's not shrink wrapped.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

2 + years ago I bought all the components for the computer i'm using
now , including win xp pro oem .

according to what i was told i was entitled to purchase an oem
version since i was purchasing it with more than what qualified me
too .

it IS a REAL MS WIN XP PRO oem package , not a manufacturers copy .

the only thing it says on the shrinkwrapped booklet is "For
Distribution only with a new PC " .

NOWHERE on the cover does it say ANYTHING about it being a licence
for just one pc . would you like me to post the front and back covers

OK , dispute this .

There is no dispute.

You either knew what an OEM copy was (you wouldn't have asked for it
otherwise)..
OR
You decided that because it was cheaper - you would get that copy..
OR
The OEM you bought it from essentially left you uninformed (likely using the
"They didn't ask questions, I won't volunteer answers." method of sales) and
got you to buy the cheaper version (cheaper because of the EULA/who supports
it really - nothing else) from them - providing them with a tidy profit.

In any case - you bought it. You got what you paid for whether you knew it
at the time or not.


Now what?

From a legal standpoint - you are in limbo. You own the right to use the
software you purchased, however, according to the EULA (The specifics of
this particular EULA possibly only included in a file on the CD which you
had no prior access to before buying it) of OEM Microsoft Operating
Systems - you cannot transfer that license/right to another machine once you
install it on the first one. Is that legally binding? Is it easy to prove
from a legal standpoint? *shrug* Not my problem in this case. I can
always recall the words of one particular software representative (I will
leave out the name of the software company - but they are far from small and
probably everyone reading this has used their products at some point) :
"What do you think we are going to do, send out the XXXXX (insert company
name for product here) police and arrest you because you are using a few
licenses you don't have?" That stuck in my head. I personally don't
condone "stealing" in any way you can define the word - but I could not
ignore that was what was being suggested.

From a purely technical standpoint - you can do whatever you want. Need to
install that copy of Windows XP onto a different machine because the
original one died and you replaced the components on your own - and don't
feel like spending more money on something you believe you already have paid
for the right to use? Sounds like it's been more than 180 days to me. You
can even activate online. It is *possible* to use that copy over and over.
It is *possible* to even change the copy into a different license type.
However, it's still the same copy you were duped into buying (or you bought
knowing what it was, or you found out why it was cheaper later or in
whatever way you want to say that the OEM screwed you, but good..) 2+ years
ago.

From a "moral" standpoint - I'm not you. I don't know what your moral
standpoint would be. When you installed and read the EULA (or skimmed it or
just blindly hit "I Agree") - did you take this agreement as a binding
agreement, like telling your best friend you will "help them move to their
new place tomorrow" or shaking hands to a verbal agreement with a new
business associate, telling them you will "have their product to them on
time."? I don't know - you may not have or you may have. Is it binding in
your mind?

What is there to dispute?

Dispute that you came here and posted something you knew would stir up
emotions and responses from two sides?
- Nope - look at the number of responses in this thread. No dispute there.

Dispute that you are angry/frustrated/feeling cheated either by Microsoft or
someone (the OEM) you feel was representing Microsoft?
- Nope. This post alone shows me that - throw in the other 1/2 dozen or
more and I would pretty much say that you not only got taken and are angry
about it, but you have that right.. Be angry.

Dispute the fact that the outside of the wrapping material of the copy of
Windows you bought 2+ years ago did not fully inform (on its own) what you
were getting?
- Nope. I'll believe you when you say that the wrapping material did not
fully inform you. Should you have asked more questions?(like: "Why is this
so much cheaper than the retail version?" or "What will I be lacking by
spending less on this?" or "Why isn't my Windows XP box as pretty as my
neighbor's?") I cannot say - I am not you, I don't shop where you shop
(probably) and your tastes and methods would therefore, logically, differ
from my own.

Some of the people involved in this fracas have actually done something,
made their presence known and continue to do so. Many other people - even
disagreeing with what those people say - respect the rights of those
individuals to do so and will even defend the rights - just not the content
necessarily - simply because of the way they go about things. I like
reading these things(argumentative threads) sometimes - I really do. It is
when it starts to dilute into a "you suck" war that I bore and move on.
Luckily, this one has stayed pretty lively - excluding a few branches on the
thread. heh

 

[Woody]

<In any case - you bought it. You got what you paid for whether you knew it
at the time or not.>

Shenan , actually at the time i honestly wasn't aware of the hidden shrink
wrapped restrictions of an oem version . and yes i did start this thread to
spark debate on the subject .

one thing positive i do think has come from these debates is the position
people are taking on what constitutes the original computer . ive noticed
recently that mike brannigan , an ms employee , is no longer saying that the
motherboard or anything else is the one defining component and that it is up
to the oem to decide when the computer is no longer the original one that
the software is licenced to . in this case "I" am the oem and I decide .

it would take very little for ms to clearly spell out briefly the licencing
restrictions on the outside of the packaging and require licenced resellers
to inform consumers of them pryor to the purchase , but they don't .