Repair XP SP2 installation with XP SP1 CD-ROM

[Stephen]

Poor Carey Frishe, God love him, Yup. Chiming in, so to speak, I want to say
I did a repair of a clean installed WinXPSP2 using a WinXPSP1 CD-ROM.

THE result was the Windows installation was downgraded to WinXPSP1. Some of
the SP2 icons remained in the Control Panel.

I clicked on the Security Center icon .. the panel opened but reported that
the Security Center was unavailable because the service had not started.
Clicking on the Windows Firewall and Wireless Network Setup Wizard icons
just threw up error messages.

Winver reported SP1.

 

[Richard Urban]

You don't do a repair install of Windows XP SP2 with a windows XP SP1 CD.
You do a clean format/install if you want to go back to SP1.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Stephen]

Yes, you are right. Thank you for the reply. But the MVP guy said that the
WinXPSP1 CD-ROM used in a repair would not downgrade WinXPSP2 to WinXPSP1.
I tried it out and found, for myself, that he was incorrect. There was
debate about it in another thread.

 

[Star Fleet Admiral Q]

Not if you want to preserve the installation of existing applications. And
yes, you can do it, if you have a WinXP SP2 machine and instead wish to go
back to WinXP SP1 (say this is the company standard right now), you just pop
in a WinXP SP1 CD (Same type as in OEM, retail, VL), boot to said CD and
select a repair install, and afterwards apply all the fixes pertinent to XP
SP1 (except SP2) and you are off and running. A repair installation always
brings the PC's OS back to the base installation found on the CD. That's
why MS always tells you to reinstall all applicable hotfixes and/or Service
Packs after doing a repair install. Oh don't get involved, on of the
newsgroups has about 100+ posts on this issue, but the point was Carey said
it "can't" be done, where many of us real "experts" said it can, as we do
this daily with new PC/Laptops arriving with XP SP2, and before joining them
to the domain and deploying them to users we repair install the XP OS with
SP1. This in effect downgrades SP2 to SP1.

--

Star Fleet Admiral Q @ your Service!

http://www.google.com
Google is your "Friend"

 

[Richard Urban]

Sorry. When you do a downgrade, you do a complete downgrade. Otherwise you
may well be left with code from two different SP's. It might not hurt you
immediately but it is almost certain to bite you in the arse sooner or
later. Also, some hotfixes you install are based on the SP2 code. Now the
code is gone so the hotfixes will all have to be reinstalled.

Why would you even bother with such a potential mess?

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[R. McCarty]

Just got caught up on today's developments on this thread. This
whole thing started with the statement that you cannot remove
SP2 and revert to an earlier version of XP using a Repair install
with a previous version CD.

Several of us went through the process to verify that you can
take even a SP2 XP instance (Slipstreamed or Embedded) and
use a Repair install to take it back to an earlier revision.

It's probably not a process that many users would require, but
just a case of verifying that it can be done.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Seems like you have mixed code with both probably leading to future
problems.
If SP-2 was truly gone, you would not have what you have.
If SP-2 was installed, you would not have what you have.
You currently have something that can not be relied upon.
Winver does not tell the whole story and clearly in your case is not
reliable.

 

[Stephen]

Could be. Could be I have the entire set of WinXPSP1 files in my system
folders plus things that were not erased during the fix like extra reg
settings and so on that would have been created with WinXPSP2. Dollars to
donoughts that's the case, but whose is to know unless an inventory is done.
If you know cough it up!

But one thing's for sure is that it is not behaving like SP2, and is not
reporting SP2, which makes the MVPguy mistaken because he said such a
scenario woud result in a WINXPSP2 installation .. which it is not.

 

[Steve N.]

You don't do a repair install of Windows XP SP2 with a windows XP SP1 CD.
You do a clean format/install if you want to go back to SP1.

You can in fact do a repair install over the top of SP2 using an SP1 CD
and the result is an SP1 installation. Three of us proved it two days ago.

Steve

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Yours is not a good example.
Your computer is also not behaving as an SP-1 installation.
If others would had reported what you did, that would prove Carey correct
since SP-2 is clearly not correctly removed in your case.
But your computer seems to be unique.
You do not have an SP-1 or SP-2 installation, you have some sort of
unreliable hybrid.

You can verify the correct data.
But it would take quite some time to check each item by date and version.
At the very least you would have to check each and every item affected by
SP-1 or SP-2.
Considering about 10 seconds each and the large number of data, dedicate a
few weeks solely to this with no other computer use permitted.
Or perform another Repair Installation to correct the problems or a Clean
Installation may be necessary if the integrity of Windows has any importance
to you.

 

[Steve N.]

Could be. Could be I have the entire set of WinXPSP1 files in my system
folders plus things that were not erased during the fix like extra reg
settings and so on that would have been created with WinXPSP2. Dollars to
donoughts that's the case, but whose is to know unless an inventory is done.
If you know cough it up!

But one thing's for sure is that it is not behaving like SP2, and is not
reporting SP2, which makes the MVPguy mistaken because he said such a
scenario woud result in a WINXPSP2 installation .. which it is not.

The same thing happened here. The only things I noticed left over from
SP2 was the non functioning Security Center and Firewall control panel.

Steve

 

[Steve N.]

Yours is not a good example.
Your computer is also not behaving as an SP-1 installation.

How can you determine that it is not behgaving like an SP1 installation?
Have you done it and are you using a machine that you've done it to?
This is pure speculation on your part.

If others would had reported what you did, that would prove Carey correct
since SP-2 is clearly not correctly removed in your case.

No, Carey was still wrong. He said it would not work *at* *all*, that
there would be an error and it would fail. There were no errors and
there was no failure. The machines are running SP1. The system files in
use are not SP2 versions they are SP1 versions.

But your computer seems to be unique.

Nope, the same thing happened here.

You do not have an SP-1 or SP-2 installation, you have some sort of
unreliable hybrid.

Nope, the actual system files in use are SP1 versions and any leftover
SP2 additional items are non-functional and non-issues that I can tell
so far. It would be interesting to see Torgeir's report on this, though.

You can verify the correct data.
But it would take quite some time to check each item by date and version.
At the very least you would have to check each and every item affected by
SP-1 or SP-2.
Considering about 10 seconds each and the large number of data, dedicate a
few weeks solely to this with no other computer use permitted.
Or perform another Repair Installation to correct the problems

A subsequent repair install probably won't alter it. SP1 has no
knowledge of the additional features of SP2, that is why they were
ignored and left alone but since they are no longer tied to the OS they
are inactive, as I'm sure any SP2 specific registry entries and services
that cannot run under SP1 are.

or a Clean
Installation may be necessary if the integrity of Windows has any importance
to you.

As another in the original thread stated, they do this on a regular
basis every day. I'm sure if they'd have run into issues due to these
possible unreliabilities you are only guessing at they'd have been
mentioned. They are left-over, inactive, unused and unusable pieces of
SP2 software that are no longer part of the OS. The persistence of the
Security Center, etc. is cosmetic and has no effect on the reliable
operation of the machine that I can determine.

That said, I agree that the very best way to go from a slipstreamed or
pre-installed SP2 installation to SP1 would be a clean SP1 install, but
that does not deter from the fact that it is very much indeed possible
to do it the way we have and that it in fact worked, the result is in
fact an SP1 OS, and everything I've tried on it so far has worked fine.

Steve

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

It is easily determined by his own description that it is not behaving as
SP-1, not speculating at all :
"Some of the SP2 icons remained in the Control Panel"
"I clicked on the Security Center icon..."
"Clicking on the Windows Firewall and Wireless Network Setup Wizard icons
just threw up error messages."
Those all indicate possible problems related to the uninstall of SP-2.
And that is only what is seen, what about what is not seen?
What assurances do you have?

Have you checked all the files to be sure all are the correct version?
"the actual system files in use are SP1 versions"
How did you verify all of them?

"as I'm sure any SP2 specific registry"
"since they are no longer tied to the OS"
Why are you sure?
What demonstrates all necessary files are correct?
How do you know what is tied to what?

I do not need to attempt this, I have not stated either way whether it will
work or not.
But both your descriptions do little to suggest it was successful.
The listed problems suggest otherwise and I would not accept the
uninstallation with those listed problems as a successful uninstall.
If you do, that is up to you and your computer.
I prefer something more definitive than SP-1 displayed in winver and some
inoperative functions.

 

[Steve N.]

It is easily determined by his own description that it is not behaving as
SP-1, not speculating at all :
"Some of the SP2 icons remained in the Control Panel"
"I clicked on the Security Center icon..."
"Clicking on the Windows Firewall and Wireless Network Setup Wizard icons
just threw up error messages."
Those all indicate possible problems related to the uninstall of SP-2.
And that is only what is seen, what about what is not seen?
What assurances do you have?

Have you checked all the files to be sure all are the correct version?
"the actual system files in use are SP1 versions"
How did you verify all of them?

"as I'm sure any SP2 specific registry"
"since they are no longer tied to the OS"
Why are you sure?
What demonstrates all necessary files are correct?
How do you know what is tied to what?

I do not need to attempt this, I have not stated either way whether it will
work or not.
But both your descriptions do little to suggest it was successful.
The listed problems suggest otherwise and I would not accept the
uninstallation with those listed problems as a successful uninstall.
If you do, that is up to you and your computer.
I prefer something more definitive than SP-1 displayed in winver and some
inoperative functions.

 

[Steve N.]

It is easily determined by his own description that it is not behaving as
SP-1, not speculating at all :
"Some of the SP2 icons remained in the Control Panel"
"I clicked on the Security Center icon..."
"Clicking on the Windows Firewall and Wireless Network Setup Wizard icons
just threw up error messages."

I saw the same things in my experiments, except the wireless setup
wizard (I don't have wireless, perhaps that's why). Those were the only
anomolies I saw.

Those all indicate possible problems related to the uninstall of SP-2.

Possibly, but the operating system functioned perfectly fine as SP1.

And that is only what is seen, what about what is not seen?
What assurances do you have?

The assurance I have is what I know from experience and study about
repair installations (aka in-place upgrades), what they do and what they
don't do. They replace operating system files and embedded system
components relative to the service pack level being used for the repair
install. SP1 doesn't know about the Firewall and Security Center control
panel items of SP2. Aparently they are more along the lines of
applications (applets), and they were rendered non-functional because
they apparently depend on SP2 versions of system files, which were
replaced by SP1 versions by the SP1 repair install. The errors stated "a
file needed was not found" indicates that.

Have you checked all the files to be sure all are the correct version?
"the actual system files in use are SP1 versions"

I assumed they were SP1 versions or the system would not function
correctly and Windows File Protection would have kicked in if a
protected system file was the wrong version.

How did you verify all of them?

I didn't, I admit I made the assumption since the systems worked fine
for me and others.

"as I'm sure any SP2 specific registry"
"since they are no longer tied to the OS"

You're snipping my sentences so they don't make complete sense. I wish
you wouldn't do that. It's misleading and confusing.

Why are you sure?
What demonstrates all necessary files are correct?

The fact that it works.

How do you know what is tied to what?

By paying attention and learning from the experiment, I'm still
learning, BTW.

I do not need to attempt this, I have not stated either way whether it will
work or not.

I didn't say you should try it or that you said it would or would not
work, you said his system is not behaving like an sp1 installation:

And I asked:

"How can you determine that it is not behaving like an SP1 installation?
Have you done it and are you using a machine that you've done it to?"

Obviously you haven't. A simple, "No." would have sufficed.

But both your descriptions do little to suggest it was successful.

The fact four people (one a highly respected MVP) posted in the original
thread that it worked and the systems were functional and one stated he
does it all the time, suggests it was successful. The fact that a few
program items specific to SP2 that were left over were no longer
functional is not all that surprising to me.

The listed problems suggest otherwise and I would not accept the
uninstallation with those listed problems as a successful uninstall.

Repair installations do not affect installed programs, remember? Only
system files and embeded components of the SP level used for the repair
installation.

If you do, that is up to you and your computer.

I tested it mostly out of curiosity. Many times in the past I and others
have performed repair installations of various versions of Windows using
prior service pack level installation CDs, knowing full well that any
existing hotfixes, patches and service packs not included in that CD
would not be present afterwards and any software or OS components
dependent on hotfixes, patches or service packs not included on the
install media that are left over may not function.

I prefer something more definitive than SP-1 displayed in winver and some
inoperative functions.

Then test it for yourself and you tell us. Saying something is askew
without your experience for proof is pretty meaningless. I prefer to
actually test things and find results, not speculate.

I intend to test this futher and I'll let you know what I find out. I
apologize, but due to another OS experiment, I reformatted my test
machine and will need to conduct the experiment again but I will do my
best to supply as complete and accurate information as I can to satisfy
your questions and comments.

Steve

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Comments inline...

I saw the same things in my experiments, except the wireless setup wizard
(I don't have wireless, perhaps that's why). Those were the only anomolies
I saw.

Anomolies can be an indicator of problems.

Possibly, but the operating system functioned perfectly fine as SP1.

Really?
To what degree?
How was the OS thoroughly tested?

The assurance I have is what I know from experience and study about repair
installations (aka in-place upgrades), what they do and what they don't
do. They replace operating system files and embedded system components
relative to the service pack level being used for the repair install. SP1
doesn't know about the Firewall and Security Center control panel items of
SP2. Aparently they are more along the lines of applications (applets),
and they were rendered non-functional because they apparently depend on
SP2 versions of system files, which were replaced by SP1 versions by the
SP1 repair install. The errors stated "a file needed was not found"
indicates that.

Possibly, but can you guarantee this?

I assumed they were SP1 versions or the system would not function
correctly and Windows File Protection would have kicked in if a protected
system file was the wrong version.

Assuming is a good way of believing an insecure computer is secure.

I didn't, I admit I made the assumption since the systems worked fine for
me and others.

Same answer as above.

You're snipping my sentences so they don't make complete sense. I wish you
wouldn't do that. It's misleading and confusing.

They may have been snipped but the complete sentance from the previous post
was left for reference if necessary.

The fact that it works.

An operating system is very complex.
"it works" leaves a lot of room for a problem caused by a bad uninstall to
show itself when an appropriate feature is needed.

By paying attention and learning from the experiment, I'm still learning,
BTW.


I didn't say you should try it or that you said it would or would not
work, you said his system is not behaving like an sp1 installation:


And I asked:

"How can you determine that it is not behaving like an SP1 installation?
Have you done it and are you using a machine that you've done it to?"

Obviously you haven't. A simple, "No." would have sufficed.

I saw no need to try it at this time.
I saw in the other thread where some said it was successful.
But I also see in this thread where components are left behind.
If components are left behind, is incomplete if not a failure.
It is possible for one to be successfull and another to fail.
Whether I would succeed or fail would not prove whether others can succeed
or fail.
All it would prove is what my computer did.

The fact four people (one a highly respected MVP) posted in the original
thread that it worked and the systems were functional and one stated he
does it all the time, suggests it was successful. The fact that a few
program items specific to SP2 that were left over were no longer
functional is not all that surprising to me.

I have never disputed whether it was possible.
But in the specific instances where there are SP-2 components left behind,
indicates potential problems.

Repair installations do not affect installed programs, remember? Only
system files and embeded components of the SP level used for the repair
installation.

I was not referring to other programs, this discussion is about Windows.

I tested it mostly out of curiosity. Many times in the past I and others
have performed repair installations of various versions of Windows using
prior service pack level installation CDs, knowing full well that any
existing hotfixes, patches and service packs not included in that CD would
not be present afterwards and any software or OS components dependent on
hotfixes, patches or service packs not included on the install media that
are left over may not function.


Then test it for yourself and you tell us. Saying something is askew
without your experience for proof is pretty meaningless. I prefer to
actually test things and find results, not speculate.

If and when I ever do it does not change the facts others have experienced.
You may choose to call it successfull with SP-2 components remaining, I
would not.
Appearing function properly is not an assurance all is OK.

I intend to test this futher and I'll let you know what I find out. I
apologize, but due to another OS experiment, I reformatted my test machine
and will need to conduct the experiment again but I will do my best to
supply as complete and accurate information as I can to satisfy your
questions and comments.

Steve

I may test for myself.
But it seems we have differing views and criteria for success.
For me and my computers, I would consider the OS suspect and do what was
necessary to fix it.
If a Clean Installation was necessary, that is what I would do.
You seem to be satisfied with SP-1 functionality and what is reported by
winver ignoring SP-2 components seen and unseen..

 

[Steve N.]

I saw the same things in my experiments, except the wireless setup
wizard (I don't have wireless, perhaps that's why). Those were the only
anomolies I saw.



Possibly, but the operating system functioned perfectly fine as SP1.



The assurance I have is what I know from experience and study about
repair installations (aka in-place upgrades), what they do and what they
don't do. They replace operating system files and embedded system
components relative to the service pack level being used for the repair
install. SP1 doesn't know about the Firewall and Security Center control
panel items of SP2. Aparently they are more along the lines of
applications (applets), and they were rendered non-functional because
they apparently depend on SP2 versions of system files, which were
replaced by SP1 versions by the SP1 repair install. The errors stated "a
file needed was not found" indicates that.



I assumed they were SP1 versions or the system would not function
correctly and Windows File Protection would have kicked in if a
protected system file was the wrong version.



I didn't, I admit I made the assumption since the systems worked fine
for me and others.



You're snipping my sentences so they don't make complete sense. I wish
you wouldn't do that. It's misleading and confusing.



The fact that it works.



By paying attention and learning from the experiment, I'm still
learning, BTW.



I didn't say you should try it or that you said it would or would not
work, you said his system is not behaving like an sp1 installation:



And I asked:

"How can you determine that it is not behaving like an SP1 installation?
Have you done it and are you using a machine that you've done it to?"

Obviously you haven't. A simple, "No." would have sufficed.



The fact four people (one a highly respected MVP) posted in the original
thread that it worked and the systems were functional and one stated he
does it all the time, suggests it was successful. The fact that a few
program items specific to SP2 that were left over were no longer
functional is not all that surprising to me.



Repair installations do not affect installed programs, remember? Only
system files and embeded components of the SP level used for the repair
installation.



I tested it mostly out of curiosity. Many times in the past I and others
have performed repair installations of various versions of Windows using
prior service pack level installation CDs, knowing full well that any
existing hotfixes, patches and service packs not included in that CD
would not be present afterwards and any software or OS components
dependent on hotfixes, patches or service packs not included on the
install media that are left over may not function.


Then test it for yourself and you tell us. Saying something is askew
without your experience for proof is pretty meaningless. I prefer to
actually test things and find results, not speculate.

I intend to test this futher and I'll let you know what I find out. I
apologize, but due to another OS experiment, I reformatted my test
machine and will need to conduct the experiment again but I will do my
best to supply as complete and accurate information as I can to satisfy
your questions and comments.

Steve

I re-did the experiment and ran Everest Home and SFC /SCANNOW. Here are
the results:

--------[ EVEREST Home Edition (c) 2003, 2004 Lavalys, Inc.
]-----------------------------------------------------------

Version EVEREST v1.51.195
Homepage
http://www.lavalys.com/
Report Type Quick Report
Computer KRUSTY
Generator Administrator
Operating System Microsoft Windows
XP Professional 5.1.2600 (WinXP Retail)
Date 2005-05-31
Time 17:53


--------[ Operating System
]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Operating System Properties:
OS Name Microsoft
Windows XP Professional
OS Code Name Whistler
OS Language English (United
States)
OS Kernel Type Uniprocessor Free
OS Version 5.1.2600 (WinXP
Retail)
OS Service Pack Service Pack 1
OS Installation Date 6/1/2005
OS Root C:\WINDOWS

License Information:
Registered Owner None of your business
Registered Organization None of your business
Licensed Processors 2
Product ID None of your business
Product Key None of your business

Current Session:
Computer Name None of your business
User Name None of your business
Logon Domain None of your business
UpTime 352 sec (0
days, 0 hours, 5 min, 52 sec)

Components Version:
Common Controls 6.00
Internet Explorer 6.0.2800.1106
(IE 6.0 SP1)
Internet Explorer Updates SP1
Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
(xpsp1.020828-1920)
Windows Media Player 8.00.00.4487
MSN Messenger -
Internet Information Services -
.NET Framework -
Novell Client -
DirectX 4.08.01.0810
(DirectX 8.1)
OpenGL 5.1.2600.1106
(xpsp1.020828-1920)
ASPI -
***********************************************************************

Windows File Protection file scan was started.

Windows File Protection file scan completed successfully.

***********************************************************************

No errors, no file repalecent, no nothing. It's at SP1.

Steve

 

[Steve N.]

Comments inline...




Anomolies can be an indicator of problems.

Can be doesn't mean there are. No problems noted so far.

Yes.

To what degree?

To the degree that it works.

How was the OS thoroughly tested?

It runs every program I throw at it. All networking is functioning
perfectly. It does everything expected of it. What else is there?

Possibly, but can you guarantee this?

What gaurantee is there that a clean install won't crash? I've seen it
happen plenty of times.

Assuming is a good way of believing an insecure computer is secure.

Do you know how WFP works?

Insecure? I thought we were talking about stability and functionality.

Same answer as above.

See my followup post from yesterday. SFC found no incorrect version
system files.

They may have been snipped but the complete sentance from the previous post
was left for reference if necessary.

May have been snipped? Definitely have been snipped. Complete sentences?
Bah! This is what I wrote:

"SP1 has no knowledge of the additional features of SP2, that is why
they were ignored and left alone but since they are no longer tied to
the OS they are inactive, as I'm sure any SP2 specific registry entries
and services that cannot run under SP1 are. "

You ignored the point I was making.

An operating system is very complex.

Duh. I've been working with OSes since the 80s.

"it works" leaves a lot of room for a problem caused by a bad uninstall to
show itself when an appropriate feature is needed.

All the appropriate features needed are working. What about "it works"
don't you understand?

I saw no need to try it at this time.
I saw in the other thread where some said it was successful.
But I also see in this thread where components are left behind.
If components are left behind, is incomplete if not a failure.

You just don't pay attention. They were left behind because SP1 didn't
recognize them, they don't work, they are inactive and pose no problem.

It is possible for one to be successfull and another to fail.

It is also possible that it just plain works. It is also possible that a
clean install fails, not only possible, actual, I've seen it.

Whether I would succeed or fail would not prove whether others can succeed
or fail.
All it would prove is what my computer did.

By the same token ANYTHING anyone does to their computer is subjective.
By your logic no one can prove or disprove anything to anyone else.

I have never disputed whether it was possible.
But in the specific instances where there are SP-2 components left behind,
indicates potential problems.

There is a logical reason why they were left behind, you just refuse to
acknoledge it.

I was not referring to other programs, this discussion is about Windows.

I repeat, SP1 has NO KNOWLEDGE of the added features of SP2. As far as
it is concerned they are just programs and not a part of the SP1 version
of the OS.

If and when I ever do it does not change the facts others have experienced.

Others have reported that it works. The leftover SP2 features do not
function, but that is not an issue, one would not expect them too, the
SP1 OS works. Even the SP1 Firewall is functioning fine.

You may choose to call it successfull with SP-2 components remaining, I
would not.
Appearing function properly is not an assurance all is OK.

Funtioning properly is ALL that matters. Your logic is flawed. The proof
is in the putting.

I may test for myself.

I hope you do.

But it seems we have differing views and criteria for success.

We have different views on a whole lot of things.

For me and my computers, I would consider the OS suspect and do what was
necessary to fix it.
If a Clean Installation was necessary, that is what I would do.
You seem to be satisfied with SP-1 functionality and what is reported by
winver ignoring SP-2 components seen and unseen..

I'm not ingnoring ANYTHING, I've addressed what I've seen, and how can
one ignore what is unseen?

Steve

 

[CS]

I'm not ingnoring ANYTHING, I've addressed what I've seen, and how can
one ignore what is unseen?

Steve

Give it up Steve. You're trying to reason with the person who most
likely nominated Carey for MVP. JJ marches to the MS band and
everyone else is out of tune! He's totally useless as an MVP, and
like Carey, makes one wonder how they continue to be "MVPs"?

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Criticism only with nothing to contribute.
Your post tells much about you.