Norton Internet Security 2010 compatibility problem?

G

Guest

I'm having assorted problems with both Windows Live Mail
(current version) and Windows Mail; some information
from a Norton/Symantec chat technician indicates that
WLM is not compatible with NIS 2010 and WM is not
fully compatible.

I only installed NIS 2009 after seeing information that is
known to be compatible with WM, and assumed that upgrading
to NIS 2010 and/or installing WLM would not cause any new
problems. Should this assumption be revised?

Robert Miles
 
R

Ron Sommer

I use Windows Security Essentials.

The technician is not correct.
NIS 2010 is not compatible with WLM.

Scanning email is not necessary. Uninstall NIS 2010 and reinstall without
the email scanner.
If that is not possible, then use Windows Security Essentials.

--
Ron Sommer
MS MVP- Windows Live Mail

wrote in message
I'm having assorted problems with both Windows Live Mail
(current version) and Windows Mail; some information
from a Norton/Symantec chat technician indicates that
WLM is not compatible with NIS 2010 and WM is not
fully compatible.

I only installed NIS 2009 after seeing information that is
known to be compatible with WM, and assumed that upgrading
to NIS 2010 and/or installing WLM would not cause any new
problems. Should this assumption be revised?

Robert Miles
 
V

Victek

I'm having assorted problems with both Windows Live Mail
(current version) and Windows Mail; some information
from a Norton/Symantec chat technician indicates that
WLM is not compatible with NIS 2010 and WM is not
fully compatible.

I only installed NIS 2009 after seeing information that is
known to be compatible with WM, and assumed that upgrading
to NIS 2010 and/or installing WLM would not cause any new
problems. Should this assumption be revised?

Robert Miles
..
Can you be more specific? Are you using POP3 accounts and concerned about
NIS spam filtering? I'm running NIS 2010 on two machines using Hotmail and
Gmail (IMAP) accounts. NIS doesn't try to filter these and I have no
problems with it.
 
B

Bruce Hagen

Nothing made by Norton has been compatible with any MS e-mail client since
Symantec bought the company from Peter Norton.

I would suggest replacing Norton with Microsoft Security Essentials.

1: Download and save MSE.

Microsoft Security Essentials
http://www.microsoft.com/security_essentials/default.aspx

2: Download and save this tool.

Norton Removal Tool
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039

3: Disconnect from the Internet.

4: Remove Norton using the tool and reboot.

5: Install MSE and reboot.
 
V

Victek

Nothing made by Norton has been compatible with any MS e-mail client since
Symantec bought the company from Peter Norton.
..
Is there any objective data to document this? I've been using WLM on three
computers along with NIS 2009 and now NIS 2010 and have not had a single
problem. By default email scanning is on, but it can easily be turned off
by anyone concerned about NIS interfering with WLM. Of course you're
entitled to your opinion, but it is simply not borne out in my experience.
 
N

N. Miller

I'm having assorted problems with both Windows Live Mail
(current version) and Windows Mail; some information
from a Norton/Symantec chat technician indicates that
WLM is not compatible with NIS 2010 and WM is not
fully compatible.

Considering that Symantec is publishing applications for Microsoft Windows,
and related products, it is up to Symantec to ensure that their product is
compatible with Microsoft products, not the other way around. Given the
history of problems with Symantec products and Windows, it is best not to
install Symantec products on a Windows system.
 
B

Bruce Hagen

Victek said:
.
Is there any objective data to document this? I've been using WLM on
three computers along with NIS 2009 and now NIS 2010 and have not had a
single problem. By default email scanning is on, but it can easily be
turned off by anyone concerned about NIS interfering with WLM. Of
course you're entitled to your opinion, but it is simply not borne out
in my experience.


Nothing specific from Norton or MS, but I have been doing this since 2004
and while many people do not have an issue with Norton, many people do.

For your reading pleasure.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...orton+windows+live+mail+compatibility&spell=1

http://www.google.com/search?q=nort...-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

http://www.google.com/search?q=nort...-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1
 
N

Nancy Jackman

This has been my experience as well.

No problems with NIS 2009 and NIS 2010 in conjunction with WLM -- and I have
kept email scanning on as well.

This issue is a red herring.

Nancy

"Victek" wrote in message
Nothing made by Norton has been compatible with any MS e-mail client since
Symantec bought the company from Peter Norton.
..
Is there any objective data to document this? I've been using WLM on three
computers along with NIS 2009 and now NIS 2010 and have not had a single
problem. By default email scanning is on, but it can easily be turned off
by anyone concerned about NIS interfering with WLM. Of course you're
entitled to your opinion, but it is simply not borne out in my experience.
 
V

Victek

Considering that Symantec is publishing applications for Microsoft Windows,
and related products, it is up to Symantec to ensure that their product is
compatible with Microsoft products, not the other way around. Given the
history of problems with Symantec products and Windows, it is best not to
install Symantec products on a Windows system.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
..
You are quite right that Norton security products were dismal for a number
of years. Before they released the 2009 line I avoided them and would
actively discourage others as well. But things changed in a big way in
2009, which led me to reconsider. Symantec brought in new people with a new
attitude and that resulted in dramatically improved software. All the big
complaints, such as slow install, even slower uninstall, settings corruption
and heavy drag on system resources, have been addressed. There have still
been issues with Symantec's tech support - particularly over the phone - and
I recommend that people opt for online chat support when needed. Otherwise
the products (NIS, NAV, N360) have been very compatible and scored pretty
well in various reviews. I understand that some people have had bad
experiences and simply don't want to revisit any Norton products. I don't
know if that's where you're coming from, but in any case I feel the new line
deserves fresh look. Sometimes people really do get their act together (at
least for a time <g>).
 
G

Gary VanderMolen \(MVP\)

Consider yourself one of the lucky few.
In the past 4 years I have counseled thousands of users about Norton
and McAfee antivirus products. We've seen hundreds of cases where the
user reported back that his problem was resolved after uninstalling the
antivirus.

Gary VanderMolen, Microsoft MVP (Mail)


"Victek" wrote in message
Nothing made by Norton has been compatible with any MS e-mail client since Symantec bought the company from Peter Norton.
..
Is there any objective data to document this? I've been using WLM on three
computers along with NIS 2009 and now NIS 2010 and have not had a single
problem. By default email scanning is on, but it can easily be turned off
by anyone concerned about NIS interfering with WLM. Of course you're
entitled to your opinion, but it is simply not borne out in my experience.
 
N

Nancy Jackman

The problems are often generated because the user has not turned OFF and
DISABLED the anti-virus program BEFORE installing WLM ---- then RE-ENABLED
it AFTER the WLM installation is finished.

That's not a fault on either Symantec's or McAfee's part.

Nancy

"Gary VanderMolen (MVP)" wrote in message

Consider yourself one of the lucky few.
In the past 4 years I have counseled thousands of users about Norton
and McAfee antivirus products. We've seen hundreds of cases where the
user reported back that his problem was resolved after uninstalling the
antivirus.

Gary VanderMolen, Microsoft MVP (Mail)


"Victek" wrote in message
Nothing made by Norton has been compatible with any MS e-mail client since
Symantec bought the company from Peter Norton.
..
Is there any objective data to document this? I've been using WLM on three
computers along with NIS 2009 and now NIS 2010 and have not had a single
problem. By default email scanning is on, but it can easily be turned off
by anyone concerned about NIS interfering with WLM. Of course you're
entitled to your opinion, but it is simply not borne out in my experience.
 
O

osu9400

Drop NIS now and immediately install Microsoft Security Essentials. Free,
lightweight, efficient, and it never expires. Your computer will thank you.

NIS is so wide reaching it is nearly impossible to uninstall. It's so
gnarly that Symantec actually makes a removal tool available on their
website.


wrote in message
I'm having assorted problems with both Windows Live Mail
(current version) and Windows Mail; some information
from a Norton/Symantec chat technician indicates that
WLM is not compatible with NIS 2010 and WM is not
fully compatible.

I only installed NIS 2009 after seeing information that is
known to be compatible with WM, and assumed that upgrading
to NIS 2010 and/or installing WLM would not cause any new
problems. Should this assumption be revised?

Robert Miles
 
O

osu9400

I'm the desktop architect for a LARGE company. We have performed tests.
While the corp version of NIS (known as Symantec Endpoint Protection) works,
it is highly inefficient. Contrast that to MS Security Essentials which is
highly efficient in terms if protection and impact to system. Users who
have removed Symantec to go with SE have noticed a nice increase in system
performance. It is really noticeable on older machines or those with not
much memory.t files

The Symantec engineer's only argument to keep their product on my desktops
was that they update their dat files several times during the day while MS
only releases one update. That's a risk I am willing to take!

The server version of the MS is really cool. You actually have the choice
of running anywhere from 1 to 8 (yes 8) scanning engines at once. So yo
could run the MS engine and the Symantec and the Mcafee at once. While I
don't recommend it, for those servers with horsepower to spare that perhaps
run in a DMZ would benefit.




"Nancy Jackman" wrote in message

This has been my experience as well.

No problems with NIS 2009 and NIS 2010 in conjunction with WLM -- and I have
kept email scanning on as well.

This issue is a red herring.

Nancy

"Victek" wrote in message
Nothing made by Norton has been compatible with any MS e-mail client since
Symantec bought the company from Peter Norton.
..
Is there any objective data to document this? I've been using WLM on three
computers along with NIS 2009 and now NIS 2010 and have not had a single
problem. By default email scanning is on, but it can easily be turned off
by anyone concerned about NIS interfering with WLM. Of course you're
entitled to your opinion, but it is simply not borne out in my experience.
 
W

...winston

Fyi..Peter Norton sold his company to Symantec in 1990(twenty years ago).....well in advance of email scanning inclusion in Norton
products and for the majority of the planet pc users also well in advance of any widely used Microsoft email client(Outlook Express
appeared in 1997)

Any AV client that interferes with a mail program's ability to send/receive by scanning email(in/out) or scanning eml files during
saving those files on one's machine may inevitably create issues with one's ability to send/receive mail.

Some folks have issues with Norton products, others don't..
In the past Norton products monitored email by pushing it through a Norton created server on the user's machine 127.x.x.x That
method ceased quite some time ago(well before NIS 2010)

It is a good idea to disable the following in NIS 2010 when used on any email client(Microsoft is not unique nor is WLM)
1. Email scanning in the NAV configuration
2. Confidential Email scanning
3. Antispam filter for Outgoing mail

I've NIS2010 and 2011[beta] with all email scanning features periodically enabled/disabled on spare drives(Vista and Win7/WLM Wave
3/Wave 4) for quite sometime without issue. The same for Eset NOD32. I've been testing Norton products since Peter Norton started
his company(they all fit on a floppy disk).

Does NIS work when enabled...Most of time..but not always....an occasional time-out does occur...with NIS10/11 and Nod32 3/4 and
almost always creates problems for the same account(a pop3 edu account, and not with Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo using Pop3)

Earlier(pre 2010 versions of NAV or NIS) were much more problematic(2005-2009). On the other hand, I have a legacy Norton System
Works Pro 2003 running on an XP/WLM Wave 4 laptop/512MB/1.0Ghz P3 without any problems what so ever and does not consume CPU cycles
like Microsoft's Security Essentials.

After over 30 yrs of pc use on Apple, Windows, and Norton and other products...
Should email scanning be disabled ?..imo, yes
Will everyone have problems ? Nope.
Is it necessary to switch to another client? ..Maybe.

If one can get buy without problems or disabling email scanning and prefer to keep there software until their subscription
expires...that's a decision each person has to make on their own. It's their choice and their money.

If deciding to switch from a third party AV client or suite...due to email scanning problems...MSE is a fair choice(the latest
version is more robust than its first RTW version, small footprint, effective and it doesn't scan email).

--
....winston
ms-mvp mail

"Victek" wrote in message
Nothing made by Norton has been compatible with any MS e-mail client since Symantec bought the company from Peter Norton.
..
Is there any objective data to document this? I've been using WLM on three
computers along with NIS 2009 and now NIS 2010 and have not had a single
problem. By default email scanning is on, but it can easily be turned off
by anyone concerned about NIS interfering with WLM. Of course you're
entitled to your opinion, but it is simply not borne out in my experience.
 
G

Guest

Victek said:
I'm having assorted problems with both Windows Live Mail
(current version) and Windows Mail; some information
from a Norton/Symantec chat technician indicates that
WLM is not compatible with NIS 2010 and WM is not
fully compatible.

I only installed NIS 2009 after seeing information that is
known to be compatible with WM, and assumed that upgrading
to NIS 2010 and/or installing WLM would not cause any new
problems. Should this assumption be revised?

Robert Miles
.
Can you be more specific? Are you using POP3 accounts and concerned about
NIS spam filtering? I'm running NIS 2010 on two machines using Hotmail
and Gmail (IMAP) accounts. NIS doesn't try to filter these and I have no
problems with it.

Is this more specific enough?

I'm using one POP3 account, with no problems if the email/newsreader
programs start at all, and four NNTP accounts, with various problems.
Also one HTTP email account under WLM but not WM.

The POP3 email server includes spam filtering that is somewhat
overaggressive - I often have to log in with its HTTP connection
method instead to tell it what it has incorrectly identified a spam, so that
I CAN download those messages. This leave very little POP3 email
that actually is spam.

The problems on my 32-bit desktop, where I am still using WM
only:

1. No successful backups in over 3 months. I'm considering switching
to WLM there, but only after a successful full backup. I've used quite
a few DVD+RWs trying for a full backup, with very few backups even
reaching the third of the at least three DVD+RWs needed to hold a full
backup before they fail. Among other problems, the backup program
does not appear to have a useful recovery from situations where some
other program (such as an antivirus program) has temporarily seized
control of whatever place it uses to store information on sucessfully
completed backups. I might be able to tell NIS 2010 not to interfere
with that storage, if it happens to be a file and and someone will tell me
how to find that file.

2. No completed Disk Defragmenter runs in over 3 months. I suspect
that it is unable to handle the sheer number of files I now have well during
the overnight runs automatically started, over 1,000,000 files on that
computer although mostly rather small *.nws files. I'm planning a
manually started run later, so that moving the mouse won't halt the run,
after I get my 64-bit desktop working better.

3. For a few months, none of the Windows Mail runs of the
section to compact its database have completed successfully. I've
had to use WMUtil for this compaction instead, and frequently
increase the number of runs for WM to allow before trying to compact
its database again. This has, however, left me with a few dozen
WindowsMail.MSMessageStore.2010_*.* files, all with a size around
1.3 GB. Is it safe to delete the older of those? My guess is that WM
can't handle the large number of *.nws files in its database very well -
about 800,000 of them.

4. For a few months, few of the WM searches for newsgroups posts
with a specific word in the subject line have completed successfully.
They often return 0 items found, even when I've just seen a post
with a subject line it should find.

5. I've seen signs that the SuperFetch feature of Vista is often very
slow at releasing any RAM it uses, especially when BOINC
background programs are running. This may indicate that SuperFetch
needs an option to allow running the portion for releasing memory at a
priority higher that typical background programs, since most BOINC
application programs deliberately try to do something useful with
all the CPU time that isn't used by some higher priority program, even
though they run at normal background priority. What little information
I've found on the registry values controlling Superfetch appears to say
that Windows XP and Windows 7 have a suitable registry value for
getting SOME control of SuperFetch, but Windows Vista doesn't.

6. No easy way to tell WM to find all the posts where the *.nws
file is missing, and decide whether to delete them. None for posts
there the *.nws file is truncated to 0 bytes either, but at least the
WMUtil add-on provides this function.


The problems on my 64-bit desktop:

1. The same type of backup and Disk Defragmenter problems, also
for over three months but with more files involved.

A recent manual start of the Disk Defragmenter program ran about 60 hours
before a power outage stopped it; I haven't had time to try this again. For
any program that needs to run that long, I'd like at least some type of
progress reports. The NIS 2010 full scan run that insisted on running
during this same time reached 4,400,000 items scanned before the power
outage, though. I'm now trying a NIS 2010 run alone, but expect it to take
a few more days to complete.

2. For some time, I've had two errors every time I try to start WM:

Windows Mail could not be started. The application
was unable to open the Windows Mail message store.
Your Windows Mail mailbox data is currently being
used by another program, such as a virus scanner.
Close the program or wait for it to complete its
operation, then open Windows Mail again.
(0x800C0155)

and after I click the OK button of that error message:

Windows Mail could not be started because MSOE.DLL could not be initialized.

Waiting longer before I click the OK button or the button
to approve the compaction does not help; neither does
rebooting and trying to start WM again. Shutting off
any interference from NIS 2010 is difficult I've only
tried it once; that didn't help either.

The Get help from communities button is new and does
not work properly for me yet - appears to log into an
account created when I mistyped my account name,
not the one with better hiding of my main email address.

The hints of which program has opened the Windows Mail
mailbox data have not proved adequate to identify that
program and shut it down - could more detail be added
to this error message, showing just what program?

2. I've installed WLM on that machine after the above error
started showing but it appears that the same problem is keeping
WLM from importing messages from the WM database.

3. I've been unable to find whether OeyEnc will add yEnc
decoding ability to WLM, without taking it away from WM
if I can ever get WM to restart properly. Or whether there's
any other add-on which can add yEnc decoding ability to
WLM.

4. WLM is often very slow to start, possibly due to a similar
problem with the SuperFetch feature of Vista being very slow
to release any RAM it controls.

5. WLM often tries to expand the amount of working set it
controls past the 8 GB of RAM which is the maximum that
computer's motherboard will hold. WLM may be having
trouble releasing the memory used by some of the sections it
uses to translate from one character set to another; many
of the newsgroups spammers seem to be trying to create
problems by putting their subject lines in character sets not
normally used for English, but which happen to contain all
the characters needed to create a subject line in English
with some graphics characters added.

6. WLM often has trouble with newsgroup posts it
decides were sent to both an email address and to one or
more newsgroups, often splitting them into a copy for the
email address and moving this copy into a recovery folder,
but leaving a copy for newsgroup(s) behind, with some
problem that makes it difficult to move those copies into
a storage folder. Some of the newsgroups that seem to
have an especially high percentage of posts sent that
way:

alt.html
alt.comp.anti-virus
comp.lang.cobol

7. The database compaction phase of WLM always fails
to complete. Perhaps the extimated 2,200,000 newsgroups
posts in its database have something to do with this.

I haven't found any WMUtil-equivalent that can compress
its database in this situation, and am not willing to try telling
WMUtil to compress the WLM database instead with no
recent usable backups.


My 64-bit laptop has a more easily identified problem. The
touchpad that came with it cannot handle some of the mouse
functions WM and WLM use, so even though both WM
and WLM are still running properly there, I can't do enough
with them. I've bought a mouse to add to it, but don't have
enough table space to add the mouse and actually use it.

Far fewer files on the WM and WLM databases on that
computer, though.

Robert Miles
 
G

Guest

Victek said:
.
Is there any objective data to document this? I've been using WLM on
three computers along with NIS 2009 and now NIS 2010 and have not had a
single problem. By default email scanning is on, but it can easily be
turned off by anyone concerned about NIS interfering with WLM. Of course
you're entitled to your opinion, but it is simply not borne out in my
experience.

How much do you use newsgroups, and does turning off email scanning
also turn off newsgroups scanning? The NIS problems I'm seeing are
almost all with newsgroups posts and with withs in storage folders, not with
email still in the Inbox folder.

Robert Miles
 
V

Victek

"osu9400" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Drop NIS now and immediately install Microsoft Security Essentials. Free,
lightweight, efficient, and it never expires. Your computer will thank
you.

NIS is so wide reaching it is nearly impossible to uninstall. It's so
gnarly that Symantec actually makes a removal tool available on their
website.
..
Regarding the difficulty of uninstalling NIS, are you referring to the
current version? The uninstall was greatly improved in 2009/2010. It is
now very fast and so far I've not needed to use the Norton Removal Tool.
You are quite right that this were serious problems for versions Pre 2009.
It's worth noting though that vendor "removal tools" for security software
are not uncommon. Symantec is not unique in offering the Norton Removal
Tool.
 
N

Nancy Jackman

Good Data.

Thanks.

Nancy

"osu9400" wrote in message
I'm the desktop architect for a LARGE company. We have performed tests.
While the corp version of NIS (known as Symantec Endpoint Protection) works,
it is highly inefficient. Contrast that to MS Security Essentials which is
highly efficient in terms if protection and impact to system. Users who
have removed Symantec to go with SE have noticed a nice increase in system
performance. It is really noticeable on older machines or those with not
much memory.t files

The Symantec engineer's only argument to keep their product on my desktops
was that they update their dat files several times during the day while MS
only releases one update. That's a risk I am willing to take!

The server version of the MS is really cool. You actually have the choice
of running anywhere from 1 to 8 (yes 8) scanning engines at once. So yo
could run the MS engine and the Symantec and the Mcafee at once. While I
don't recommend it, for those servers with horsepower to spare that perhaps
run in a DMZ would benefit.

"Nancy Jackman" wrote in message


This has been my experience as well.

No problems with NIS 2009 and NIS 2010 in conjunction with WLM -- and I have
kept email scanning on as well.

This issue is a red herring.

Nancy

"Victek" wrote in message
Nothing made by Norton has been compatible with any MS e-mail client since
Symantec bought the company from Peter Norton.
..
Is there any objective data to document this? I've been using WLM on three
computers along with NIS 2009 and now NIS 2010 and have not had a single
problem. By default email scanning is on, but it can easily be turned off
by anyone concerned about NIS interfering with WLM. Of course you're
entitled to your opinion, but it is simply not borne out in my experience.
 
J

Jeff Layman

Victek said:
.
You are quite right that Norton security products were dismal for a number
of years. Before they released the 2009 line I avoided them and would
actively discourage others as well. But things changed in a big way in
2009, which led me to reconsider. Symantec brought in new people with a
new attitude and that resulted in dramatically improved software. All the
big complaints, such as slow install, even slower uninstall, settings
corruption and heavy drag on system resources, have been addressed. There
have still been issues with Symantec's tech support - particularly over
the phone - and I recommend that people opt for online chat support when
needed. Otherwise the products (NIS, NAV, N360) have been very compatible
and scored pretty well in various reviews. I understand that some people
have had bad experiences and simply don't want to revisit any Norton
products. I don't know if that's where you're coming from, but in any
case I feel the new line deserves fresh look. Sometimes people really do
get their act together (at least for a time <g>).

I'm with you on this, Victek. I have been using Norton for at least 6
years, generally without problem (even the 2004 - 8 versions which many had
issues with). NIS 2009 and 2010 seem to have had much better reviews. When
I read of people having problems with NIS 2010 and WLM, I do wonder what
their setup is, and exactly what the problems are. I have given up spam
filtering (my ISP uses SpamAssassin and marks emails it thinks are spam.
It's often correct, but sometimes wrong. I suspect that NIS - or any other
spam filter - is not much different in this respect) as it takes me only a
few seconds to decide if a mail is spam or not, and just a few more seconds
to examine the message source to see if it is spam or not.

I've used Norton support a couple of times in the last year and found it to
be quick and helpful.

NIS isn't perfect (a bit too pushy in certain marketing areas for my
liking), but it does well in independent AV reviews. If people based their
Windows usage on their experiences with 3.0 and continued to do so, would
they be screaming for all those with XP, Vista, or 7 to wipe them off their
machines as they can't be any good? That would make as much sense as the
continuing clamour to uninstall NIS 2010 due to problems experienced years
ago with early versions of Norton.
 

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