Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!

[Leythos]

I know, but if I want to buy XP, I am forced to buy it from a store that
says I am buying software.

But your statements, in this global forum, didn't indicate that you were
only talking about Spain - in fact, many of the companies you listed
(WalMart, Sears....) are in several countries.

This still doesn't detract from the fact that it's the seller that's
scamming you, not MS. The seller is withholding information about the
product, MS makes that information available to the public.

 

[Alias]

yea, but you're only spouting the hype. Show me the numbers if you've got
them.

More people are murdered in New York City in one year than ETA has killed in
over 40 years.

Take in account for Murders per capita and show me which has the highest
rate, until them it's just FUD.

LOL! You sure are ignorant. I am not going to google for you. You see, I
don't care if you believe me or not. If you want to know the truth, do your
own research.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Spain isn't the the only place in the world that has XP or where vendors
or MS sells it.

I know, but if I want to buy XP, I am forced to buy it from a store that
says I am buying software.

Alias

 

[kurttrail]

Why does it matter? They reseller is the one responsible for SELLING
THE CUSTOMER THE PRODUCT. What part of that don't you understand?

And MS is responsible for bothe the allowing of the sale of copies of
their copyrighted material as a retail product, and for trying to change
the conditions of the retail sale AFTER THE FACT of the retail sale.

NO ONE IS FORCING MS TO ALLOW THE SALE OF COPIES OF THEIR COPYRIGHTED
MATERIAL AS A RETAIL PRODUCT!

WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!

Go after the company that is scamming the customer - the vendor that
is actually selling the product is NOT providing disclosure, MS
provides this information even though the vendor doesn't - see now?

If MS ever sues an individual for non-compliance with their post-sale
shrink-wrap license terms, you can be damned sure that the retailer will
be named in a countersuit!

Until then, MS has over a dozen years failed to exercise due diligence
in regards to their post-sale shrink-wrap license terms, and consumers
have every legal right to be of the opinion that those terms cannot
rewrite the terms of retail sale, after the fact of the sale, nor can MS
rewrite their "fair use" rights to their copy of software.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Crusty \(-: Old B@stard :-\)]

I bought the "software" and got the license. I didn't buy the license, and
get the software. I will use MY software as I see fit! I know how to use it.
I don't need no damn instructions from within the package telling me when,
where, how and why.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

Software has become a term applied to a lot of things. You still have to
read the license to understand the difference between the generic term and
the specifics of a published edition. Even open software is licensed.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

What Alias is getting at is that all web sites, and stores, sell you
software. Don't they all have software departments, T.V. departments,
appliance departments etc.

Yet after they have sold you the "software", they try to tell you that
you have bought a license. Well, people DID NOT buy it in the license
department - did they?

Based upon that fact, and that even Microsoft offers you software
downloads (not license downloads) I think I also am going to begin to
state that I OWN the "software". The license that was in the package is
ancillary to the fact of my purchase, and I don't really have to even
read it.

The software is mine, whether I have a license or not!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

I have a degree in English from the University of Texas Arlington and my
comprehension skills are fine. If you install software without reading
through the EULA then the problem is not comprehension, but reading at
all.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)


If you can read the website, you can read the EULA. If you just click
through it during an install, that's your issue.

Huh? I didn't say anything about reading or clicking through the scammy
EULA, now did I, sport? Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Is
English not your first language? The web sites I was referring to and I
made it clear by typing *computer web sites" say *software*, not
"licences". Yaknow, the ones that sell Microsoft *Software*?
--
Alias



--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)


You were sold the licenses, not the software.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

We know about the licencing scam. It's a scam. It's highway robbery.
EVERY computer web site says "software", not "licences".

Alias

 

[kurttrail]

And on the right side they even tell you how to just buy another
license if needed

But they don't call the thing you are actually purchasing a license.

http://www.microsoft.com/products/i...a9d2c448-eb05-4a2b-a062-9c711c533e0c&type=ovr

Look at the link, it's a product not a license.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

For an example, to buy XP Home direct from Microsoft, go to:
http://www.microsoft.com/products/i...a9d2c448-eb05-4a2b-a062-9c711c533e0c&type=ovr
Other products have their own direct sales pages. Need more?

But they don't call the thing you are actually purchasing a license.

http://www.microsoft.com/products/i...a9d2c448-eb05-4a2b-a062-9c711c533e0c&type=ovr

Look at the link, it's a product not a license. Hell even you call it a
product, not a license!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Crusty \(-: Old B@stard :-\)]

Oh Kurt,

You really did it this time. Even got me involved (-:

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[David Candy]

24 United States 0.04 per 1000 people
43 Australia 0.01 per 1000 people
48 Spain 0.01 per 1000 people

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Correct.

 

[Alias]

But your statements, in this global forum, didn't indicate that you were
only talking about Spain - in fact, many of the companies you listed
(WalMart, Sears....) are in several countries.

This still doesn't detract from the fact that it's the seller that's
scamming you, not MS. The seller is withholding information about the
product, MS makes that information available to the public.

With MS's permission. The are complices in the scam. Licensing is a scam.
Period. With XP, the price isn't too bad but if a family of three with three
computers wants Office, you gotta pay a kidney to have Office on all three
machines. Highway robbery and it induces people to install pirated copies.

Today, for example, someone asked on a Spanish newsgroup which version of
Ghost should they use the eMule to download and got 20 replies from people
who had done just that. A friend of mine repairs computers here in Spain. He
has yet to meet a computer here without eMule and a slew of pirated software
on the computers and he's been doing this here for three years. And these
are lawyers, doctors, accountants, college kids, etc., not your usual thief
profile.

Alias

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Since you don't own the software, yes you do need instructions. You cannot
unilaterally declare the software yours. When you buy a license plate for
your car you are licensing the car to use the public roads, but you are not
buying the roads.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

I bought the "software" and got the license. I didn't buy the license, and
get the software. I will use MY software as I see fit! I know how to use
it. I don't need no damn instructions from within the package telling me
when, where, how and why.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

Software has become a term applied to a lot of things. You still have to
read the license to understand the difference between the generic term
and the specifics of a published edition. Even open software is
licensed.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

What Alias is getting at is that all web sites, and stores, sell you
software. Don't they all have software departments, T.V. departments,
appliance departments etc.

Yet after they have sold you the "software", they try to tell you that
you have bought a license. Well, people DID NOT buy it in the license
department - did they?

Based upon that fact, and that even Microsoft offers you software
downloads (not license downloads) I think I also am going to begin to
state that I OWN the "software". The license that was in the package is
ancillary to the fact of my purchase, and I don't really have to even
read it.

The software is mine, whether I have a license or not!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!


I have a degree in English from the University of Texas Arlington and my
comprehension skills are fine. If you install software without reading
through the EULA then the problem is not comprehension, but reading at
all.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)


If you can read the website, you can read the EULA. If you just
click through it during an install, that's your issue.

Huh? I didn't say anything about reading or clicking through the
scammy EULA, now did I, sport? Do you have a reading comprehension
problem? Is English not your first language? The web sites I was
referring to and I made it clear by typing *computer web sites" say
*software*, not "licences". Yaknow, the ones that sell Microsoft
*Software*?
--
Alias



--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)


You were sold the licenses, not the software.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

We know about the licencing scam. It's a scam. It's highway robbery.
EVERY computer web site says "software", not "licences".

Alias

 

[kurttrail]

It is public knowledge that Microsoft software is licensed unless
stated "OK to share with friends" (which does appear on some items,
like the Security CD Feb 2004 and the Service Pack 2 CD). Microsoft
publishes this on their websites. A store not making a big point
about licensing does not break the license between you and Microsoft.

LOL! Those are free software distributions.

MS allows copies of their copyright software to be sold as retail
products. Then, AFTER THE FACT OF RETAIL SALE, MS tries to change the
fact of the retail sale in their post-sale shrink-wrap license.

NO ONE IS FORCING MS TO ALLOW THE SALE OF COPIES OF THEIR COPYRIGHTED
SOFTWARE AS A RETAIL PRODUCT.

So is MS's post-sale licensing claim legally enforceable? Just because
MS claims something in their license doesn't make it legally so. MS is
not a law unto itself.

Most of the public are totally ignorant of MS's post-sale shrink-wrap
licensing scheme, and it shows how desperate you really are that you
have to try to deceive with your false claim of "public knowledge!"

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Leythos]

24 United States 0.04 per 1000 people
43 Australia 0.01 per 1000 people
48 Spain 0.01 per 1000 people

Thank for posting that David - care to provide the source?

I don't dispute the numbers, maybe Alias will thank you for getting the
information to help him prove his statement.

 

[Alias]

You were saying, Leythos?

LOL!

What an idiot. The USA is a breeding ground for criminals. Just take a look
at who's in the White House, a man who stole the election!

Alias
"David Candy" <.> wrote
..
24 United States 0.04 per 1000 people
43 Australia 0.01 per 1000 people
48 Spain 0.01 per 1000 people

 

[Leythos]

You were saying, Leythos?

I never disputed the information, only stated that without numbers it
didn't mean anything - I asked David for the source, since without a
credible source the numbers still don't mean anything.

Did you thank David for doing your work?

What an idiot. The USA is a breeding ground for criminals. Just take a
look at who's in the White House, a man who stole the election!

The information doesn't provide that the US is a breading ground for
criminals, the information doesn't show anything of the sort - but, like
your inability to see that resellers are responsible for the marketing
information they provide to customers, I don't expect you to understand
that either.

Just how did George "steal" the election? As a registered independent I
don't see where there were any real problems with the voting. The only
problem I have is that Kerry lied about his service, lied about
everything, and that the media still backed him.

 

[kurttrail]

Since you don't own the software, yes you do need instructions. You
cannot unilaterally declare the software yours. When you buy a
license plate for your car you are licensing the car to use the
public roads, but you are not buying the roads.

He owns his copy of software, and technically, MS doesn't own the
software, but the copyright to the software.

And under copyright law, there are many limitations placed on the
exclusive rights of copyright owners, which MS tries to rewrite after
the fact of retail sale! The main limitation MS tries to rewrite is
that of "fair use."

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Leythos]

With MS's permission. The are complices in the scam. Licensing is a scam.
Period. With XP, the price isn't too bad but if a family of three with three
computers wants Office, you gotta pay a kidney to have Office on all three
machines. Highway robbery and it induces people to install pirated copies.

But you don't really know that to be fact - that's like assuming that ever
company that sells products runs their ad's across the manufactures legal
department for approval. MS probably has no clue how WalMart is working
the ad's or in-store displays.

So, when are you going to take WalMart to task for their actions?

 

[kurttrail]

Oh Kurt,

You really did it this time. Even got me involved (-:

LOL! I don't know how my thread turned out this way! I was expecting
this to be more of a lark, not yet another battle in the EULA Wars!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Alias]

I never disputed the information, only stated that without numbers it
didn't mean anything - I asked David for the source, since without a
credible source the numbers still don't mean anything.

Did you thank David for doing your work?

*My* work? No, your work.

The information doesn't provide that the US is a breading ground for
criminals, the information doesn't show anything of the sort - but, like
your inability to see that resellers are responsible for the marketing
information they provide to customers, I don't expect you to understand
that either.

OK, are you willing to visit South Central LA? Do you need a Google search
to figure that one out? How about N.E. Washington, D.C, the murder capital
of the world?

Just how did George "steal" the election?

Electronic voting machines that left no paper trail. You aren't up on the
news, are you? You must spend too much time on this newsgroup I guess.

As a registered independent I
don't see where there were any real problems with the voting. The only
problem I have is that Kerry lied about his service, lied about
everything, and that the media still backed him.

Lying about WMDs and getting almost 2000 young Americans killed invading a
country that posed no threat is OK by you? Do you want the cowboy to attack
Iran, Syria and North Korea too?

Alias