Nominations still being accepted for the MSMVPHOS!

[kurttrail]

What Alias is getting at is that all web sites, and stores, sell you
software. Don't they all have software departments, T.V. departments,
appliance departments etc.

Yet after they have sold you the "software", they try to tell you
that you have bought a license. Well, people DID NOT buy it in the
license department - did they?

Based upon that fact, and that even Microsoft offers you software
downloads (not license downloads) I think I also am going to begin to
state that I OWN the "software". The license that was in the package
is ancillary to the fact of my purchase, and I don't really have to
even read it.
The software is mine, whether I have a license or not!

Just to clarify, you own your copy of software, MS owns the copyright to
the software.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Leythos]

Don't forget to read the outside of the packaging, where it says the
same thing.

Bruce, if you state facts like that he'll just have to ignore you since we
all know that the license information is fully public.

 

[kurttrail]

And the simple fact is that the store that sold it didn't provide full
disclosure while MS does clearly provide it. Maybe you should be
complaining to the stores since they are the ones not providing the
information to the customers - MS clearly makes this information
available to any that ask/look for it.

Again, MS doesn't have to let their products be sold in retail stores,
but they do. MS tries to write the sale of the copy of software AFTER
THE FACT OF THE SALE with their post-sale shrink-wrap license.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Software has become a term applied to a lot of things. You still have to
read the license to understand the difference between the generic term and
the specifics of a published edition. Even open software is licensed.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

What Alias is getting at is that all web sites, and stores, sell you
software. Don't they all have software departments, T.V. departments,
appliance departments etc.

Yet after they have sold you the "software", they try to tell you that you
have bought a license. Well, people DID NOT buy it in the license
department - did they?

Based upon that fact, and that even Microsoft offers you software
downloads (not license downloads) I think I also am going to begin to
state that I OWN the "software". The license that was in the package is
ancillary to the fact of my purchase, and I don't really have to even read
it.

The software is mine, whether I have a license or not!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

I have a degree in English from the University of Texas Arlington and my
comprehension skills are fine. If you install software without reading
through the EULA then the problem is not comprehension, but reading at
all.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

If you can read the website, you can read the EULA. If you just click
through it during an install, that's your issue.

Huh? I didn't say anything about reading or clicking through the scammy
EULA, now did I, sport? Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Is
English not your first language? The web sites I was referring to and I
made it clear by typing *computer web sites" say *software*, not
"licences". Yaknow, the ones that sell Microsoft *Software*?
--
Alias



--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)


You were sold the licenses, not the software.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

We know about the licencing scam. It's a scam. It's highway robbery.
EVERY computer web site says "software", not "licences".

Alias

 

[Alias]

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:08:18 +0100, Alias wrote:

[snip]
Spain sanctions murder/eliminations all the time, you just don't see
it
because you don't belong to the covert groups that are involved in it.

Tell that to José Barrionuevo and Rafael Vera who are doing time for
heading
up killing squads to kill ETA members.

Just because someone gets busted for a failed mission that had to have a
fall guy, it doesn't mean that it's not still happening. That example of
yours just proves the point - there are sanctioned kills carried out by
governments all over the world, have been, and will continue to be.

Can you prove your assertions? Fact is the USA has state sanctioned
murder
and has murdered many innocent people and they do it in public and are
proud
of it.

Disgusting.

Many countries give the eye-for-an-eye treatment to criminals - and they
damn well deserve it. If you kill a mass murderer you are doing a public
service. Sure, there have always been mistakes, even with spain and other
countries, but I would rather live in a country that punished criminals
than one that rewards them.

Killing criminals is not quite the same as a sanctioned murder - they
imply different types of intent and action in most cases.

I can tell you know, if I were in law enforcement I would have no trouble
being part of the team that kills murders for their crimes. I've also
advocated going back to public hangings on the local state court-house
lawns with the bodies to remain in public view for at least 4 hours after
the hanging. In fact, if I could get back into the service and be part of
a team tracking down and exterminating terrorists I would volunteer in a
heart-beat.

When they confuse you with a mass murderer and kill your ass while you're
screaming "I'm innocent", maybe then you will understand.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:08:18 +0100, Alias wrote:

[snip]
Spain sanctions murder/eliminations all the time, you just don't see
it
because you don't belong to the covert groups that are involved in it.

Tell that to José Barrionuevo and Rafael Vera who are doing time for
heading
up killing squads to kill ETA members.

Just because someone gets busted for a failed mission that had to have a
fall guy, it doesn't mean that it's not still happening. That example of
yours just proves the point - there are sanctioned kills carried out by
governments all over the world, have been, and will continue to be.

Can you prove your assertions? Fact is the USA has state sanctioned
murder
and has murdered many innocent people and they do it in public and are
proud
of it.

Disgusting.

Many countries give the eye-for-an-eye treatment to criminals - and they
damn well deserve it. If you kill a mass murderer you are doing a public
service. Sure, there have always been mistakes, even with spain and other
countries, but I would rather live in a country that punished criminals
than one that rewards them.

Killing criminals is not quite the same as a sanctioned murder - they
imply different types of intent and action in most cases.

I can tell you know, if I were in law enforcement I would have no trouble
being part of the team that kills murders for their crimes. I've also
advocated going back to public hangings on the local state court-house
lawns with the bodies to remain in public view for at least 4 hours after
the hanging. In fact, if I could get back into the service and be part of
a team tracking down and exterminating terrorists I would volunteer in a
heart-beat.

When they confuse you with a mass murderer and kill your ass while you're
screaming "I'm innocent", maybe then you will understand.

I already understand that some "innocent" people get convicted, it's a
statistical certainty. If you also consider that more than 99% of the
people that get the death-penalty are actually guilty, then it's an
acceptable margin that I'm willing to live with. In all the years I've
been around I've only read about 2 cases where a death-row person was
innocent of the crime that got them the death penalty, but they were
actually guilty of other crimes that would have got them life in jail -
and life in jail should be turned to shot-on-entry so that we don't have
to pay for them to stay in prison for the next 60+ years.

I suppose you would rather see child rapists and murders get out on parole
after 40 years since they've been rehabilitated while in prison? You don't
actually believe that crap works do you?

 

[Leythos]

For an example, to buy XP Home direct from Microsoft, go to:
http://www.microsoft.com/products/i...a9d2c448-eb05-4a2b-a062-9c711c533e0c&type=ovr
Other products have their own direct sales pages. Need more?

And on the right side they even tell you how to just buy another license
if needed

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

For an example, to buy XP Home direct from Microsoft, go to:
http://www.microsoft.com/products/i...a9d2c448-eb05-4a2b-a062-9c711c533e0c&type=ovr
Other products have their own direct sales pages. Need more?

 

[kurttrail]

The information is PUBLIC for anyone to see, it's not hidden, and
after all of these years it's only the public's fault for not
knowing. The resellers are to blame for marketing something as
something else.

LOL! The shrink-wrap license terms are hidden at the time of sale.

MS is to blame:

1.) They allow the sale of copies of their copyrighted software as a
retail product.
2.) They rewrite the terms of retail sale, AFTER THE FACT OF THE SALE,
in their post-sale shrink-wrap license.

Remember, there is no law that forces MS to allow copies of their
copyrighted material as a retail product.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

It is public knowledge that Microsoft software is licensed unless stated "OK
to share with friends" (which does appear on some items, like the Security
CD Feb 2004 and the Service Pack 2 CD). Microsoft publishes this on their
websites. A store not making a big point about licensing does not break the
license between you and Microsoft.

 

[Alias]

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:13:01 +0100, Alias wrote:


On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:08:18 +0100, Alias wrote:

[snip]
Spain sanctions murder/eliminations all the time, you just don't see
it
because you don't belong to the covert groups that are involved in
it.

Tell that to José Barrionuevo and Rafael Vera who are doing time for
heading
up killing squads to kill ETA members.

Just because someone gets busted for a failed mission that had to have
a
fall guy, it doesn't mean that it's not still happening. That example
of
yours just proves the point - there are sanctioned kills carried out
by
governments all over the world, have been, and will continue to be.

Can you prove your assertions? Fact is the USA has state sanctioned
murder
and has murdered many innocent people and they do it in public and are
proud
of it.

Disgusting.

Many countries give the eye-for-an-eye treatment to criminals - and they
damn well deserve it. If you kill a mass murderer you are doing a public
service. Sure, there have always been mistakes, even with spain and
other
countries, but I would rather live in a country that punished criminals
than one that rewards them.

Killing criminals is not quite the same as a sanctioned murder - they
imply different types of intent and action in most cases.

I can tell you know, if I were in law enforcement I would have no
trouble
being part of the team that kills murders for their crimes. I've also
advocated going back to public hangings on the local state court-house
lawns with the bodies to remain in public view for at least 4 hours
after
the hanging. In fact, if I could get back into the service and be part
of
a team tracking down and exterminating terrorists I would volunteer in a
heart-beat.

When they confuse you with a mass murderer and kill your ass while you're
screaming "I'm innocent", maybe then you will understand.

I already understand that some "innocent" people get convicted, it's a
statistical certainty. If you also consider that more than 99% of the
people that get the death-penalty are actually guilty, then it's an
acceptable margin that I'm willing to live with. In all the years I've
been around I've only read about 2 cases where a death-row person was
innocent of the crime that got them the death penalty, but they were
actually guilty of other crimes that would have got them life in jail -
and life in jail should be turned to shot-on-entry so that we don't have
to pay for them to stay in prison for the next 60+ years.

I suppose you would rather see child rapists and murders get out on parole
after 40 years since they've been rehabilitated while in prison? You don't
actually believe that crap works do you?

USA: Crime and punishment. High crime rate.

Spain and the rest of the EU: Crime and rehabilitation. Low crime rate.

I rest my case, your honor.

Alias

 

[kurttrail]

Don't forget to read the outside of the packaging, where it says the
same thing.

It doesn't say that the copy of software isn't sold.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Leythos]

Not on the page for Spain. In fact, XP isn't offered at all.

Spain isn't the the only place in the world that has XP or where vendors
or MS sells it.

 

[Alias]

For an example, to buy XP Home direct from Microsoft, go to:
http://www.microsoft.com/products/i...a9d2c448-eb05-4a2b-a062-9c711c533e0c&type=ovr
Other products have their own direct sales pages. Need more?

I stand corrected but most people don't buy it there but at an approved by
MS store that says software, not license.

That said, I took a gander at the MS page for Spain and not one version of
XP is offered there.

Alias

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Microsoft sells direct? Since when? Those stores are representing
Microsoft and Microsoft doesn't do anything to correct them. It's called
scamming.

Alias

 

[Alias]

And on the right side they even tell you how to just buy another license
if needed

Not on the page for Spain. In fact, XP isn't offered at all.

Alias

 

[kurttrail]

Bruce, if you state facts like that he'll just have to ignore you
since we all know that the license information is fully public.

I don't ignore anyone. It is not fully public.

Would you lease a car without being able to see ALL of the terms at the
time of leasing?

Would you enter into a Loan agreement, without being able to see ALL of
the terms, at the time you sign the Loan Agreement?

Then why would you think you enter into a true software licensing
agreement at the time of purchase, in a store that sells retail
products, when you don't get to see or agree to ALL of the terms od use
at the time of purchase?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Leythos]

USA: Crime and punishment. High crime rate.

Spain and the rest of the EU: Crime and rehabilitation. Low crime rate.

yea, but you're only spouting the hype. Show me the numbers if you've got
them.

Take in account for Murders per capita and show me which has the highest
rate, until them it's just FUD.

 

[kurttrail]

So go bitch to the software seller that didn't make this public
information available to the consumer - you can't blame MS for it,
they DO make it available to the public. Start going after the
resellers of the product for misleading the customers.

MS allow copies of their copyright software to be sold as retail
products. It's not the stores fault that MS tries to change the fact of
the sale in their post-sale shrink-wrap license.

NO ONE IS FORCING MS TO ALLOW THE SALE OF COPIES OF THEIR COPYRIGHTED
SOFTWARE AS A RETAIL PRODUCT.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

Finally an award to be proud of!

rob

LOL! Happy to oblige! But let me say this publicly, I would not have
added you to the Microscum MVP Hall of Shame, if anyone, but you,
nominated you for the dishonor!

Nice Legs! ;-)

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Leythos]

More people are murdered in New York City in one year than ETA has
killed in over 40 years.

Yea, check the country vs country and then the ratio of people to adjust
the numbers. I was in Italy one year when the local terrorists bombed a
USO office with people in it (in fact I was about 100 feet from it at the
time), never happened to me in the US. Come to think of it, in almost
every country we've visited large numbers of individuals were jumped /
mugged by the locals, but those same people had no trouble in the US....

Start pulling real numbers and ratios or you're just spreading FUD.

LOL! You sure are ignorant. I am not going to google for you. You see, I
don't care if you believe me or not. If you want to know the truth, do
your own research.

Hey, you were the one making the statement without any factual basis, it's
not up to me to do YOUR homework - if you can't back your statement then
why make it?