Licensing questions

[Sarge]

Hello,

I hope I can get some sort authoritative answers to my questions,
preferably from Microsoft themselves.

I have some poorly written suspect software that I want to run that
requires me to run it as Administrator. Since I don't trust any software
that forces me to do that, I want to put it in its own sandbox in a
virtual machine.

1. According to the Windows XP EULA, even though I have a fully legal
instance of Windows XP Professional Upgrade Retail license installed on
my desktop, I do not have the right to also install and run this same
copy of XP in a Virtual PC environment on the same desktop. Is there any
way to do this with XP? It seems real burdensome to have to go spend
another $300 for an XP full license just for running in a virtual machine
on an already licensed install of XP.

2. Failing that, can I install a legal copy of Windows 2000 in a virtual
machine on the XP desktop?

3. If #2 is doable, can I create more than one image of the same Windows
2000 CD install if I am only running one instance of it at any one time?
The EULA seems a bit vague on this, talking about "installed, displayed,
accessed, or run" which means that if I have multiple images, I should be
able to run one of them at any time since I am not running them
concurrently.

I really want to be a legal user here, and would appreciate any
assistance with this.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

A Windows XP license can only be used on one (1)
computer. A second installation requires a second
license.

From the Windows XP EULA:

1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
display and run one copy of the Software on a single
computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
time on any single Workstation Computer.

Please read your End-User License Agreement by going
to Start > Run and type: WINVER , and hit enter. Then
click on "End-User License Agreement".

If you already have a retail copy of Windows XP, you can obtain
additional licenses for another computer or laptop by visiting the
following Microsoft Web site:
http://shop.microsoft.com/special/wal/walinfo.asp

You can install a legal copy of Windows 2000 in a Virtual
PC on a XP desktop as long as the W2K license is not
being used on any other PC.

Microsoft Virtual PC 2004
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| Hello,
|
| I hope I can get some sort authoritative answers to my questions,
| preferably from Microsoft themselves.
|
| I have some poorly written suspect software that I want to run that
| requires me to run it as Administrator. Since I don't trust any software
| that forces me to do that, I want to put it in its own sandbox in a
| virtual machine.
|
| 1. According to the Windows XP EULA, even though I have a fully legal
| instance of Windows XP Professional Upgrade Retail license installed on
| my desktop, I do not have the right to also install and run this same
| copy of XP in a Virtual PC environment on the same desktop. Is there any
| way to do this with XP? It seems real burdensome to have to go spend
| another $300 for an XP full license just for running in a virtual machine
| on an already licensed install of XP.
|
| 2. Failing that, can I install a legal copy of Windows 2000 in a virtual
| machine on the XP desktop?
|
| 3. If #2 is doable, can I create more than one image of the same Windows
| 2000 CD install if I am only running one instance of it at any one time?
| The EULA seems a bit vague on this, talking about "installed, displayed,
| accessed, or run" which means that if I have multiple images, I should be
| able to run one of them at any time since I am not running them
| concurrently.
|
| I really want to be a legal user here, and would appreciate any
| assistance with this.
|
| Thanks in advance.

 

[Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers]

Hi,

On (1), that is technically correct but I'd try it anyways. If the existing
activation is old, you may find that it activates perfectly well. At worst
you still have 30 days to activate so can use the installation for that time
frame. On (2) - absolutely. On (3), again this is not in accordance with the
licensing, but there is no technical reason you can't.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

 

[Sarge]

(e-mail address removed):

Thanks for your reply!

A Windows XP license can only be used on one (1)
computer. A second installation requires a second
license.

From the Windows XP EULA:

1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
display and run one copy of the Software on a single
computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
time on any single Workstation Computer.

I have read this, and this is what prompted my questions.

If I am running in multiple virtual machines using different disk images
in different windows but on the same hardware, this reads to me the same,
since the virtual machines are all running on the same processor (or same
2).

So, reading the above, how is running multiple copies of a legal OS on
the same "Workstation Computer" a violation?

See below for more on this.

Please read your End-User License Agreement by going
to Start > Run and type: WINVER , and hit enter. Then
click on "End-User License Agreement".

If you already have a retail copy of Windows XP, you can obtain
additional licenses for another computer or laptop by visiting the
following Microsoft Web site:
http://shop.microsoft.com/special/wal/walinfo.asp

Yes, at $184 a pop.

You can install a legal copy of Windows 2000 in a Virtual
PC on a XP desktop as long as the W2K license is not
being used on any other PC.

What does "any other PC" mean? Hardware? or "virtual"? Is a "virtual
PC" the same as "another PC"?

Microsoft Virtual PC 2004
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx

This is still vague on multiple disk images and other issues.

Can I install into another virtual disk image on the same PC, assuming
that I don't run more than one of them at the same time? Isn't this the
same as having dual/multiple boots/installs of the same O/S on the same
PC. Is _that_ legal, BTW? In other words, if I have a fully legal
install of XP on my desktop PC and then install it again on the same PC
under a different directory so as to have a safe copy, did I just break
the EULA?

How about running multiple virtual machines in different windows on the
same desktop/PC? Isn't that on the same hardware?

 

[Gordon]

A Windows XP license can only be used on one (1)
computer. A second installation requires a second
license.

How is running in a VIRTUAL machine a "second installation "?

 

[Sarge]

How is running in a VIRTUAL machine a "second installation "?

Exactly! That is my real question. Can anyone from Microsoft give
something authoritative about this issue?

 

[R. McCarty]

The real issue would be "Activation". If say you ran a instance of
XP in a VPC that was the same as it's host, you'd have to activate
the VPC-XP. Since it is made up of "Virtualized" devices, the hash
code would be different. If it was after the 120-Day roll-off then
the XP-VPC would activate via the web (with appropriate versions).
It's more of a Windows-on-Windows type setup and the key to
EULA compliancy would be the fact that a VPC isn't really an
actual physical computer but a software emulation. Not sure how
Microsoft defines the use of OS'es within a VPC.

 

[Sarge]

The real issue would be "Activation".

Not if it's Windows 2000.

If say you ran a instance of
XP in a VPC that was the same as it's host, you'd have to activate
the VPC-XP. Since it is made up of "Virtualized" devices, the hash
code would be different. If it was after the 120-Day roll-off then
the XP-VPC would activate via the web (with appropriate versions).
It's more of a Windows-on-Windows type setup and the key to
EULA compliancy would be the fact that a VPC isn't really an
actual physical computer but a software emulation. Not sure how
Microsoft defines the use of OS'es within a VPC.

I'm wondering why they would have any limitations at all if they do. It's
on the same PC and the same hardware, just sharing the same processor time
and the same devices.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I hope I can get some sort authoritative answers to my questions,
preferably from Microsoft themselves.

Replied in another newsgroup. Please do not send the same message separately
to more than one newsgroup (called multiposting). Doing so just fragments
the thread, so someone who answers in one newsgroup doesn't get to see
answers from others in another newsgroup. And for those who read all the
newsgroups the message is multiposted to, they see the message multiple
times instead of once (they would see it only once if you correctly
crossposted instead).

If you must send the same message to more than one newsgroup, please do so
by crossposting (but only to a *few* related newsgroups).

Please see "What is the accepted way to share a message across multiple
newsgroups?" at http://smjg.port5.com/faqs/usenet/xpost.html

 

[Guest]

Virtual PC has not changed any of the licensing models. Just treat
each and every VM you build as a new PC and everything is kept
as simple as possible.

The important part is that you can only "run one copy of the Product on a
single computer" so the EULA already makes this clear - irrespective of
arguments about it being on the same PC.
You are using more then one copy of Windows and thus you are required
to purchase another license.

 

[Sarge]

Replied in another newsgroup. Please do not send the same message
separately to more than one newsgroup (called multiposting). Doing so
just fragments the thread, so someone who answers in one newsgroup
doesn't get to see answers from others in another newsgroup. And for
those who read all the newsgroups the message is multiposted to, they
see the message multiple times instead of once (they would see it only
once if you correctly crossposted instead).

If you must send the same message to more than one newsgroup, please
do so by crossposting (but only to a *few* related newsgroups).

Please see "What is the accepted way to share a message across
multiple newsgroups?" at http://smjg.port5.com/faqs/usenet/xpost.html

You are right, and sorry about that. I had originally posted to the
other newsgroup and realized that this should also be here but didn't
know of any other way to do so but to multipost. Perhaps I should have
reposted it again as a cross-post?

 

[Sarge]

Virtual PC has not changed any of the licensing models. Just treat
each and every VM you build as a new PC and everything is kept
as simple as possible.

Sorry, but this is not reality. A VM is NOT a new PC, rather a trick of
the hardware to act like separate hardware, but it is not. It isn't a
question of semantics, rather a question of technical fact.

If not, then every time a new process is spun off it is a license
violation because of the concurrent access of the Windows code by
separate entities, just like a virtual machine.

The important part is that you can only "run one copy of the Product
on a single computer" so the EULA already makes this clear -
irrespective of arguments about it being on the same PC.
You are using more then one copy of Windows and thus you are required
to purchase another license.

This I almost agree with. I don't want to run multiple copies that are
not licensed, as I said in my originating post.

What I _do_ want to do is to create more than one image and then only run
one of those at a time, just like if I installed on multiple removable
hard disks and then inserted one of them back in to run it. Is that
illegal??

Again, how about if someone installs a second copy of the same OS to use
as a safe-boot alternative if the main OS is hosed? I recall seeing that
recommended somewhere by Microsoft itself, if I'm not mistaken. In any
case, with that scenario, only one copy of the OS is running at any one
time. Is that illegal?

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Give Microsoft Licensing department a call for a
definitive answer to your question.
1-800-426-9400

Outside the US, the following page has links to local licensing sites
which include local customer service phone number
(http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/index/worldwide.mspx)

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| > Virtual PC has not changed any of the licensing models. Just treat
| > each and every VM you build as a new PC and everything is kept
| > as simple as possible.
|
| Sorry, but this is not reality. A VM is NOT a new PC, rather a trick of
| the hardware to act like separate hardware, but it is not. It isn't a
| question of semantics, rather a question of technical fact.
|
| If not, then every time a new process is spun off it is a license
| violation because of the concurrent access of the Windows code by
| separate entities, just like a virtual machine.
|
| >
| > The important part is that you can only "run one copy of the Product
| > on a single computer" so the EULA already makes this clear -
| > irrespective of arguments about it being on the same PC.
| > You are using more then one copy of Windows and thus you are required
| > to purchase another license.
| >
|
| This I almost agree with. I don't want to run multiple copies that are
| not licensed, as I said in my originating post.
|
| What I _do_ want to do is to create more than one image and then only run
| one of those at a time, just like if I installed on multiple removable
| hard disks and then inserted one of them back in to run it. Is that
| illegal??
|
| Again, how about if someone installs a second copy of the same OS to use
| as a safe-boot alternative if the main OS is hosed? I recall seeing that
| recommended somewhere by Microsoft itself, if I'm not mistaken. In any
| case, with that scenario, only one copy of the OS is running at any one
| time. Is that illegal?
|

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

You are right, and sorry about that. I had originally posted to the
other newsgroup and realized that this should also be here but didn't
know of any other way to do so but to multipost. Perhaps I should
have reposted it again as a cross-post?

No, that would have been no better. If you do decide after the fact that
another newsgroup is necessary, then there's really no way around
multiposting. But note that most of us here follow most of the Windows
newsgroups. You really don't enlarge your audience much by posting to
multiples.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Hello,

I hope I can get some sort authoritative answers to my questions,
preferably from Microsoft themselves.

I have some poorly written suspect software that I want to run that
requires me to run it as Administrator. Since I don't trust any software
that forces me to do that, I want to put it in its own sandbox in a
virtual machine.

1. According to the Windows XP EULA, even though I have a fully legal
instance of Windows XP Professional Upgrade Retail license installed on
my desktop, I do not have the right to also install and run this same
copy of XP in a Virtual PC environment on the same desktop. Is there any
way to do this with XP? It seems real burdensome to have to go spend
another $300 for an XP full license just for running in a virtual machine
on an already licensed install of XP.

2. Failing that, can I install a legal copy of Windows 2000 in a virtual
machine on the XP desktop?

3. If #2 is doable, can I create more than one image of the same Windows
2000 CD install if I am only running one instance of it at any one time?
The EULA seems a bit vague on this, talking about "installed, displayed,
accessed, or run" which means that if I have multiple images, I should be
able to run one of them at any time since I am not running them
concurrently.

I really want to be a legal user here, and would appreciate any
assistance with this.

Thanks in advance.

Here's a link to a Microsoft page that talks about running virtual server
OS'. No mention of virtual workstation OS'.

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/virtualization.mspx

If anyone can make any sense out of the white papers you can download there
your comprehension skills are better than mine. It's a such grey area that
I'm not sure anyone, even a Microsoft Licensing rep, can give you a
definitive answer. I use Virtual PC a lot for testing. I am licensed to run
up to 10 copies of XP so I know I'm not violating any license agreements.
You could use trial versions of Windows Server software but I don't think
there is a trial version of XP available. Even though I'm covered for
licenses I don't activate any Virtual XP installs. I've never had to run a
test long enough for the activation grace period to run out.

Kerry

 

[Guest]

Give Microsoft Licensing department a call for a
definitive answer to your question.
1-800-426-9400

Outside the US, the following page has links to local licensing sites
which include local customer service phone number
(http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/index/worldwide.mspx)

 

[GHalleck]

Sarge wrote:



Replied in another newsgroup. Please do not send the same message separately
to more than one newsgroup (called multiposting). Doing so just fragments
the thread, so someone who answers in one newsgroup doesn't get to see
answers from others in another newsgroup. And for those who read all the
newsgroups the message is multiposted to, they see the message multiple
times instead of once (they would see it only once if you correctly
crossposted instead).

If you must send the same message to more than one newsgroup, please do so
by crossposting (but only to a *few* related newsgroups).

Please see "What is the accepted way to share a message across multiple
newsgroups?" at http://smjg.port5.com/faqs/usenet/xpost.html

What other group...I haven't found it yet. But it would
greatly appreciated if, when rebuking the multi-poster,
that other readers might get to know where to look for
what might be a valuable response or comment on this topic.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

What other group...I haven't found it yet. But it would
greatly appreciated if, when rebuking the multi-poster,

I'm not rebuking anyone. I'm pointing out something that will help him (and
others who may read the message) make more effective use of newsgroups.

that other readers might get to know where to look for
what might be a valuable response or comment on this topic.

I don't usually remember what other group (and I don't in this case). And
I'm not interested in taking the time to look for it. Let the OP take the
time, and report back that there are answers (not just mine) in another
group.

Or if you want to find my answer, you can do the same googlegroups search to
find it that I would.

 

[God]

Actually you are wrong and I can tell you exactly why. It doesn't matter
what Microsoft thinks should be in the eula, what matters is the actual law
and applicable case law. There is no way any court of the land would hold
charges against a user for having multiple copies of the same windows
program on the same computer therefore you can have as many as you want on
the same computer and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Personally, I have 2 on mine and if Bill Gates doesn't like it he can kiss
my shiny metal ass.

PS If you want pass my IP onto your investigator jerk, he can use it to
trace me and try and stop me.

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Trace initiated and completed. Results forwarded
to appropriate law enforcement official.