Windows XP license legal question

[xp_newbie]

I recently purchased a brand new laptop with a genuine Windows XP
license (it has the holographic sticker with the product key in the
bottom). Now I want to install VMWare so that I can run multiple
virtual machines on the same laptop (at least another instance of
Windows XP).

My question is simple: Do I need another license for that? Please note
that it will be running on the same exact piece of hardware
(concurrently).

Thanks,
Alex

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I recently purchased a brand new laptop with a genuine Windows XP
license (it has the holographic sticker with the product key in the
bottom). Now I want to install VMWare so that I can run multiple
virtual machines on the same laptop (at least another instance of
Windows XP).

My question is simple: Do I need another license for that? Please note
that it will be running on the same exact piece of hardware
(concurrently).

According to the EULA, yes, you do:

"Installation and Use. Except as otherwise expressly provided in this
EULA, you may install, use, access, display and run only one (1) copy of
the SOFTWARE on the COMPUTER."

In the scenario you describe, you'd have at least two copies installed
*and* running simultaneously.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

 

[DL]

The answer you get will depend on who is responding
One will say you need a second licence, another will say you dont.
Likewise if you posed this Q to a Legal practioner, you would likely get a
similar response.
The true answer depends on the legal definition of certain words/phrases in
the EULA, which I doubt have been legally defined, in a court.

 

[John Barnett MVP]

VMWare may be running on the same piece of hardware but, legally, it could
be argued that, as VMWare (and Microsoft Virtual Machine) have their own
boot up sequences and BIOS, and that the second 'system' has to
theoretically be booted, it could be classed as another machine and
therefore require a seperate licence. That is the way I look at the issue.
Whether Microsoft would agree or not is another matter. The only way to find
out is call Microsoft Customer Service and ask.

While I have used Microsoft Virtual machine i haven't installed a copy of XP
that was already in use on the same machine. Licencing is extremely complex
and Microsoft don't actually help by not spelling the legal requirements out
in plain English.

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
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accuracy, reliability or content of this mail. The Author shall not be
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arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or
opinions expressed in this mail..

 

[Guest]

Wouldn't all this depend on the version of the XP OS he is using? XP Pro
allows for more than one installation on multiple computers and for laptops
the EULA gets even more complicated as (to the best of my knowledge) a laptop
user can install one additional copy to a PC meant to be a 'docking'
workstation (or mothership) for the laptop.

But as mentioned already, unless you're a lawyer, all the various EULA's and
its rampant jargon are easily misinterpreted but I do belive you need a
seperate lisence for each OS installed in connection with each VM installed
(you definately need one for VMSevers).

Best thing to do is read the EULA when you install it (I couldn't find on
online) or contact Microsoft customer support.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Wouldn't all this depend on the version of the XP OS he is using?

No, not at all. Even if the OP had a Volume License (purchased in
minimums of 5 units), he would still have to use two of the licenses one
a single computer, to remain in compliance with the license terms.

XP Pro
allows for more than one installation on multiple computers and for laptops

Only the specially priced Volume Licenses allow multiple installations,
not the OEM and retail licenses available to the consumer.

the EULA gets even more complicated as (to the best of my knowledge) a laptop
user can install one additional copy to a PC meant to be a 'docking'
workstation (or mothership) for the laptop.

No, that's completely wrong. There's no such allowance; a docking
station isn't a distinct, separate PC, it's a simple interface device
allowing a one-step connection to peripherals.

But as mentioned already, unless you're a lawyer, all the various EULA's and
its rampant jargon are easily misinterpreted ....

I don't find the EULA's plain English, written at a middle school
level, all that daunting.

but I do belive you need a
seperate lisence for each OS installed in connection with each VM installed
(you definately need one for VMSevers).

Correct.




--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

 

[xp_newbie]

I recently purchased a brand new laptop with a genuine Windows XP
license (it has the holographic sticker with the product key in the
bottom). Now I want to install VMWare so that I can run multiple
virtual machines on the same laptop (at least another instance of
Windows XP).

My question is simple: Do I need another license for that? Please note
that it will be running on the same exact piece of hardware
(concurrently).

Thank you all for your answers so far. Your answers prompted me to look
at my Windows XP Pro's EULA (found in C:\Windows\System32\eula.txt) and
in there it says:

1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
display and run one copy of the SOFTWARE on
the COMPUTER. The SOFTWARE may not be used
by more than two (2) processors at any one time on the
COMPUTER, unless a higher number is
indicated on the COA.

Notice that it says: "may not be used by more than two (2) processors
at any any one time on the COMPUTER".

Which means that as long as I have no more than 2 processors on my
laptop (I actually have one only) it is OK to use "at any one time"
that copy (it is a single copy after all).

Bingo! It appears that I can run multiple instances of the same copy of
WXP Pro - unless Microsoft can claim that VMWare's Virtual Machines are
"processors".

According to Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary a "processor" is:

2 a (1) : COMPUTER (2) : the part of a computer system that operates on
data -- called also central processing unit b : a computer program (as
a compiler) that puts another program into a form acceptable to the
computer.

If it turns out that despite the above I still can run only one
instance of my legally licensed WXP Pro, I will have to go for Linux as
my main productivity OS (under VMWare) and use a single copy of Windows
XP Pro for Internet access only, since really the only reason for me to
run Windows is its Media Player (some web sites will stream content
only for WMP).


Thanks!
Alex

 

[GHalleck]

Thank you all for your answers so far. Your answers prompted me to look
at my Windows XP Pro's EULA (found in C:\Windows\System32\eula.txt) and
in there it says:

1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
display and run one copy of the SOFTWARE on
the COMPUTER. The SOFTWARE may not be used
by more than two (2) processors at any one time on the
COMPUTER, unless a higher number is
indicated on the COA.

Notice that it says: "may not be used by more than two (2) processors
at any any one time on the COMPUTER".

Which means that as long as I have no more than 2 processors on my
laptop (I actually have one only) it is OK to use "at any one time"
that copy (it is a single copy after all).

Bingo! It appears that I can run multiple instances of the same copy of
WXP Pro - unless Microsoft can claim that VMWare's Virtual Machines are
"processors".

According to Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary a "processor" is:

2 a (1) : COMPUTER (2) : the part of a computer system that operates on
data -- called also central processing unit b : a computer program (as
a compiler) that puts another program into a form acceptable to the
computer.

If it turns out that despite the above I still can run only one
instance of my legally licensed WXP Pro, I will have to go for Linux as
my main productivity OS (under VMWare) and use a single copy of Windows
XP Pro for Internet access only, since really the only reason for me to
run Windows is its Media Player (some web sites will stream content
only for WMP).


Thanks!
Alex

Gets complicated. Note, however, that a lay definition is
not the same as the engineering (or scientific or computing,
etc.) one. The EULA reference to 2 processors is for those
systems that use multi-processors (but not to exceed 2 in
this definition) in the same box (viz., the "computer".)
And even then, there were some nifty exchanges involving
hyper-threading CPU's.

But if it is important to run Windows XP in the VMWare, it
might be worthwhile to acquire a second, portable version of
Windows XP, viz., the retail version. The license of the OEM
version in the laptop "dies" with it. Otherwise, use your own
judgement. Nobody, including Microsoft, is going to actively
take offense for such breaching of the EULA.

 

[xp_newbie]

Gets complicated. Note, however, that a lay definition is
not the same as the engineering (or scientific or computing,
etc.) one. The EULA reference to 2 processors is for those
systems that use multi-processors (but not to exceed 2 in
this definition) in the same box (viz., the "computer".)
And even then, there were some nifty exchanges involving
hyper-threading CPU's.

Well, of course it gets complicated. That is why I posted my question
here.

But if it is important to run Windows XP in the VMWare, it
might be worthwhile to acquire a second, portable version of
Windows XP, viz., the retail version. The license of the OEM
version in the laptop "dies" with it. Otherwise, use your own
judgement. Nobody, including Microsoft, is going to actively
take offense for such breaching of the EULA.

For me as a single end user doing this on one laptop only I am almost
sure Microsoft wouldn't bother. But it is interesting to know whether
this also applies to a consultant who does this multiple times on his
clients' computers (using each clients legal licenses of course).

Also, if there is a reasonable doubt about the legality of running two
instances of WXP Pro under VMWare using the same license, I prefer to
use Linux as my productivity OS and forget about this entire issue.

IMHO, I don't think you will be able to get a definitive/authoritative
answer from Microsoft's representatives over the phone.

Which... gave me another idea: I can, for trial purposes, install 2
instances of my WXP Pro under VMWare. Then, run Windows Genuine Check
(WGA) and see if Microsoft web site approves it (through the mandatory
Internet connection). If Microsoft approves it, then who could argue
againt it?

I think I may try that just for the curiousity of it. Even if the
second instance passes the WGA test now, it would be interesting to see
whether Microsoft will modify its WGA in the future so that it does not
allow such a thing. Such modification will most certainly clarify
Microsoft's intents in the EULA (which we all agree is ambigious in
this regard).

Thanks,
Alex

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Thank you all for your answers so far. Your answers prompted me to look
at my Windows XP Pro's EULA (found in C:\Windows\System32\eula.txt) and
in there it says:

1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
display and run one copy of the SOFTWARE on
the COMPUTER. The SOFTWARE may not be used
by more than two (2) processors at any one time on the
COMPUTER, unless a higher number is
indicated on the COA.

Clearly proving what I said originally

Notice that it says: "may not be used by more than two (2) processors
at any any one time on the COMPUTER".

You don't seem to grasp the difference between a CPU and a computer,
despite having copied and pasted a non-technical, vastly
over-simplified, and factually *wrong* definition.

Which means that as long as I have no more than 2 processors on my
laptop (I actually have one only) it is OK to use "at any one time"
that copy (it is a single copy after all).

No, but go ahead and rationalize your desire to pirate software any way
you like.



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

 

[xp_newbie]

No, but go ahead and rationalize your desire to pirate software any way
you like.

You got the wrong message, Bruce. I am not trying to rationalize any
desire to pirate software, but rather get a clear, definitive and
authoritative one. So far, I haven't received one, including from you
(are you a lawyer? are you an MS representative? are you an MS employee
at all?).

Also, my inclination is actually use only *one* instance of WXP (for
media player and nothing more) and do all the rest using Linux. I
thought perhaps I could find here some good reasons *not* to that.


Thanks,
Alex

 

[DL]

You are not going to get a definative answer here, only opinions

 

[Guest]

I don't find the EULA's plain English, written at a middle school

level, all that daunting.

Well you must of been on the honor roll since there seems to be so many
arguements on these newsgroups about what you can and can't do,
....maybe...were ...all...just...slow...in..the...head...eh?

Its not that the words are too big for our puny brains as seems to be your
opinion but WHAT the words and sentences DO or do NOT EXPLICITLY define. You
must not deal with business matters often, or follow politics for that matter.

One such arguement was about cloning an OS to the same computer. It is a
breach of contract to install more than one copy of the OS on one computer
but if you clone it, you're not installing it so there is technically no
breach.

Only the specially priced Volume Licenses allow multiple installations,
not the OEM and retail licenses available to the consumer.

Ok I'll give you that, I thought i read somewhere "installation of one OS on
one machine and one copy for a portable machine" but I can't remember where I
found that EULA. I'll pretend it didnt exist.

Virtual PC EULA
http://download.microsoft.com/docum...lish_62873ba0-42f3-4330-a334-d23fa2eb21a6.pdf

any retail EULA
http://www.microsoft.com/legal/useterms/default.aspx

 

[Guest]

Ignor Bruce, hes a grumpy bear coming out of hibernation.

see the Virtual PC EULA for more information.
http://download.microsoft.com/docum...lish_62873ba0-42f3-4330-a334-d23fa2eb21a6.pdf

Bruce was right though, installing more than one copy of XP on one machine
is a breach of the EULA although no one yet has been sued for doing so. You
are not 'pirating' the software either, just extending the software past the
agreement (its and agreement not a contract). To be an honest consumer you
would purchase another license, if youre a smart consumer youd find a better
way (clone).

Cloning that OS (with Norton Ghost etc) is not a breach (its an exact copy
of the original OS and cannot run at the same time as the original or on
another machine).

Bruce was also right about your misinterpritation of the (2) processors, it
refers to dual core processors and network servers, not two machines

Also, my inclination is actually use only *one* instance of WXP (for
media player and nothing more) and do all the rest using Linux. I
thought perhaps I could find here some good reasons *not* to that.

If thats all this was about then why don't you just get a player that is
compatible with linux and plays WMA's? Seems like a lot of effort for a
simple music player.

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

A Windows XP license can only be used on one (1)
computer. A second installation requires a second
license.

From the Windows XP EULA:

1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
display and run one copy of the Software on a single
computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
time on any single Workstation Computer.

Please read your End-User License Agreement by going
to Start > Run and type: WINVER , and hit enter. Then
click on "End-User License Agreement".

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User
Microsoft Community Newsgroups
news://msnews.microsoft.com/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----------------

"xp_newbie"wrote:

| I recently purchased a brand new laptop with a genuine Windows XP
| license (it has the holographic sticker with the product key in the
| bottom). Now I want to install VMWare so that I can run multiple
| virtual machines on the same laptop (at least another instance of
| Windows XP).
|
| My question is simple: Do I need another license for that? Please note
| that it will be running on the same exact piece of hardware
| (concurrently).
|
| Thanks,
| Alex

 

[xp_newbie]

You are not going to get a definative answer here, only opinions

Thanks - and that's OK for me too. Since I knew that I would not get a
real answer from MS over the phone, I thought I may as well consult as
many opinions as possible and proceed from there.

As I mentioned earlier, if there is the slightest doubt that running
another instacne of XP pro on the same PC using VMWare is illegal, then
I will *not* install a second copy (on the same computer) but rather
opt for Linux (perhaps even multiple instances of Linux since it is
free and is not as restrictive as Windows). Windows XP is a great
operating system - but only for accessing content over the Internet
that was somehow made for Windows specific applications (such as
Windows Media Player). Even the popular MS Office is not attractive
anymore, now that OpenOffice has reached maturity that rivals MS
Office, is freely available and is not plauged by the usual microsoft
security holes as described here:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/advisory/919637.mspx

Thanks,
Alex

 

[xp_newbie]

see the Virtual PC EULA for more information.
http://download.microsoft.com/docum...lish_62873ba0-42f3-4330-a334-d23fa2eb21a6.pdf

Bruce was right though, installing more than one copy of XP on one machine
is a breach of the EULA although no one yet has been sued for doing so. You
are not 'pirating' the software either, just extending the software past the
agreement (its and agreement not a contract). To be an honest consumer you
would purchase another license, if youre a smart consumer youd find a better
way (clone).

Cloning that OS (with Norton Ghost etc) is not a breach (its an exact copy
of the original OS and cannot run at the same time as the original or on
another machine).

Thank you Brandon - your answer has been the clearest of all so far.
Indeed you sensed correctly that I am an honest consumer trying to
understand what I can do and what I cannot do within the limits of the
EULA. Hence, since I am going to use VMWare, the other instances on my
laptop will be Linux ones.

Bruce was also right about your misinterpritation of the (2) processors, it
refers to dual core processors and network servers, not two machines

OK, fair enough. Now I am curious to know what will happen when
quad-core machines start coming out. Do the Windows XP Pro boxes on the
shelves in Staples contain a different EULA that allows Windows XP run
on a quad-core PC? Or is it something that is going to be supported
only in Vista? (making it illegal to run Windows XP on a quad-core PC)

If thats all this was about then why don't you just get a player that is
compatible with linux and plays WMA's? Seems like a lot of effort for a
simple music player.

I thought WMA is properiatery and can only be played by Windows Media
Player. Do you actually know of a Linux player that can play WMA? If
so, can you point me to it (a URL would be super). I would LOVE to have
one.

Actually, I think that Windows Media Player is not about WMA only.
There are some Internet radio stations that broadcast (not WMA) in a
format understood by WMP only. Also, some web sites do not comply with
W3C and work properly only with Internet Explorer. Windows is still
needed for such cases (fortunately not too many of them).

Thanks,
Alex

 

[Guest]

Even the popular MS Office is not attractive

anymore, now that OpenOffice has reached maturity that rivals MS
Office

There is another way, an open source, free-multi platform (yes even Linux)
office suite called "openoffice" by SUN microsystems. Its not pretty nor
something NASA would use but it works and its free.

http://www.openoffice.org/

Most of the internet and internet apps do revolve around Microsoft but if we
give in to convenience then it will just stay that way MS makes things easy
and are fairly generous in some ways but severely limit how we can use it.
Try something new.

if there is the slightest doubt that running

another instacne of XP pro on the same PC using VMWare is illegal, then
I will *not* install a second copy (on the same computer) but rather
opt for Linux

Whatever you want to do. Installing an additional copy of XP is a breach of
contract (you agree by using and 'activating' the product but an agreement is
different from a signed legal contract so the legalities sre blurred here,
and since there have been no court precedence, that is why you will get more
opinion than fact ESPECIALLY from MS ), cloning a partition is not a breach
of the EULA (as a technical loophole). as long as you stay within the EULA
after that it is legal to have those two OS systems on one computer, that is
my opinion.

 

[Guest]

Do you actually know of a Linux player that can play WMA? If

so, can you point me to it (a URL would be super). I would LOVE to have
one

Real Player for Windows does , I would assume the Linux version does as well
-Linux version here-
http://www.real.com/rhapsody/linux?..._1_1_0_0_1_0,rhapsody&pcode=rn&opage=rhapsody

Real player 10.5 uses just about all of Windows Media Player's (WMP) file
associations and some that WMP doesn't.

This is an off topic question; Have you tried the knoppix PE by any chance?
I'm curious to know how well it works with a windows OS.

 

[xp_newbie]

Real Player for Windows does

I know. I tried it on a Windows 2000 system but I must admit that on
the same exact system (an old 400MHz laptop) WMP work much better.

Real Player for Windows does , I would assume the Linux version does as well
-Linux version here-
http://www.real.com/rhapsody/linux?..._1_1_0_0_1_0,rhapsody&pcode=rn&opage=rhapsody

Last time I tried Real Player, it relied on the presense of WMP (DLLs
and codecs) in the system. Obviously in a Linux system they don't
exist. I don't know whether the company that makes RealPlayer licensed
those files from MS to include them in a Linux system. I would be very
surprised if MS agreed to such a thing.

Real player 10.5 uses just about all of Windows Media Player's (WMP) file
associations and some that WMP doesn't.

I agree - but I know this for a fact on Windows only. I have not tried
that on Linux yet.

This is an off topic question; Have you tried the knoppix PE by any chance?
I'm curious to know how well it works with a windows OS.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is Knoppix PE? I tried Knoppix Live
CD, installed it on a hard drive. I also tried slackware and other
distributions - and mainly worked with virtually all versions of RedHat
(and Fedora as well). But Knoppix PE? Sorry, I don't even know what it
is.

Thanks,
Alex