Last Norton Liveupdate Broke Firewall!

[Skywise]

Perhaps if everyone who's had this problem takes Symantec to small
claims court for breach of contract, they'll get the point.

<Snipola>

Perhaps if you can find enough people with the same complaint you
can have this small claims case turned into a class action suit.
You could also bring in the government since this is would appear
to be a deliberate attempt to defraud the consumer.

Brian

 

[JasonL]

It seems after much checking, and having a friend check out the download,

Norton, When it scanned for LiveUpdates, detected I was running a version no
longer supported and deleted the following file, S32LUHL1.DLL which it seems
disabled NPF. Amazingly, now that I'm running NPF2004, everything works and
the missing .DLL is now amazingly returned to the system. I've taken my
evidence to the Commonwealth Attorney's office and they find it interesting
in the least. In the meantime, I've contacted my attorney and I'm going to
pursue Symantec in small claims court, not for the money, but for the
principle. I paid for 12 months of subscription updates, and by accepting
my money and extending my subscription until December 2, 2004, Norton
entered into a contract with me. By them no longer supporting this version,
and disabling it on my system, they have violated the terms of the contract
entered into with me.

Perhaps if everyone who's had this problem takes Symantec to small claims
court for breach of contract, they'll get the point.

Thats interesting about that .dll ("S32LUHL1.DLL"). I just did a search and
it doesn't exist on this computer. I don't know if I had that .dll deleted
prior to NPF not working after Liveupdate requested a reboot or not. I do
know that "SYMNETI.DLL" was deleted (and remains missing).

I'm not sure what to make of the situation yet as NPF "appears" to be
working again after an un/re-install. The question now is whether there
will be future Liveupdates or not for it. (?)

This morning there was a Liveupdate for NAV, so that does appear to still be
working. The subscription "expiration date" listed in NAV appears as it
should as well. I'm concerned about NPF though because the expiration date
is no longer showing correctly.

I think I'll try to collect more information. I really don't want to mess
around with this computer now, since it "appears" to be working, but I have
an older P3 that I could use. I'll run a monitoring ultility and monitor
every from installing NPF to downloading all the Liveupdates.

I can't see Symantec just "pulling the plug". If they did, this will be a
major mistake on their part. I'd imagine this will effect many customers of
NPF who went with just renewing their subscriptions over upgrading. (We
were given the choice, after all.) I doubt this will be the only newsgroup
thread about this issue -- and one of the great things about NG's is that
everything is archived forever. I'm sure many other people deja search NG's
when deciding on purchasing various products, comparing user comments
between competing products. I find it to be an excellent resource. Is this
the type of publicity Symantec wants?

I contacted Symantec, but as of yet haven't received a reply. As soon as I
do, I'll note it here.

For now, I'll give Symantec the benefit of the doubt -- but if I get a
cookie cutter reply saying that upgrading to 2004 is needed, then I'll also
pursue further.

Thanks!
Jason

 

[*Vanguard*]

JRF said in

Perhaps if everyone who's had this problem takes Symantec to small
claims court for breach of contract, they'll get the point.

Not buying any more of their products will hurt more. It's amazing how
much they'll spend on their legal deparment and lawyers and not bother
monitoring their customers disatisfaction. Symantec is a software
predator. They are not a software developer. I don't think any product
they have was ever originally developed by them. They bought it from
someone else. That is, they are a software publisher (i.e., predator)
that purchases profitable software and implements some support.

I continue to use NIS2003 only because:
- It can blocks ads. If I go with Sygate then I'll need to check into
an ad blocker, too.
- It has URL filtering although it isn't called that (you can block
under Parental Control by site URL). You can, for example, block
"doubleclick.com" without have to specify every possible host they use,
like "ads.doubleclick.com" (which is why I don't bother listing all
their hosts in my hosts file).
- I has additional settings to let you see when a program is trying to
launch another prior-authorized program. You let IE have Internet
access, but then any program that can launch IE can also have Internet
access. That's the falacy of outbound firewalling: you need to also
know what launched that permitted application. But it can get to be
quite nuisancesome to be checking every parent program that launches a
permitted program.

Defects that I do not like are:
- Although you have URL filtering (under Parental Control) to block
outbound connections to undesirable sites, you must include Parental
Control to have URL filtering. That incurs a big long wait while it
loads the site ratings. I have all ratings disabled (it's my computer
so obviously I'm not going to censor myself) yet these idiots want to
waste my time loading in this huge list, a list over which I have no
control nor can I find out what they block or the ratings for them.
- ccApp.exe (and sometimes ccPxySvc.exe) will go brain dead. It took a
lot of e-mails to get into from Symantec on how to write up a .bat file
to kill their processes, stop their services, and start them back up and
supposedly in the correct order. When the connection goes dead (which
may only be for some traffic, like HTTP fails but POP3 still works),
this .bat file sometimes will kick NIS in the butt. If not, logging off
doesn't work so you have to reboot.
- They won't let you export your rules. If you need to do a fresh
install or setup another host the same way (with another license of
their product), you can't export and import your user-defined
application and global rules. In NIS2002, you could export the registry
keys. In NIS2003, these registry keys are hashed so you can't tell
which ones you need (and importing them might not work, anyway).
- Their included SpamAlert worked for about 2 months when I first got
it. Since then I've not seen any spam marked as such by it. SpamPal
and its plugins (all free) work far better.
- They will not reveal the algorithms they use for intrusion signatures.
I go through YahooPOPs, a local HTTP-to-POP3 proxy, to get my Yahoo
e-mails. Occasionally I get a report from NIS regarding an Xmas scan
intrusion from Yahoo. Of course, Yahoo disavows any knowledge of such a
scan. I also get get NO information from Symantec as to what *is* a
Xmas scan intrusion or any info about any other of the intrusion
detections. Someone tried to intrude using XXXX method but that report
is worthless since there's no way for me to know what is Symantec's XXXX
definition of an intrusion.
- The concept of using User Accounts specifically within NIS is stupid.
It harks back to supporting Windows 9x/ME where security, permissions,
and accounts don't exist. When installed under NT/2K/XP, it should base
its security on the logged on user's permissions. I did need more
accounts to manage.
- When you perform an update, NIS will start popping up alerts telling
you the program wants to make a connection. That's because the updated
version has a different hash value than the old one so NIS handles it
like a completely different program. It never offers to migrate the
rules in the prompt, nor can you go in NIS and migrate them yourself.
Oh goody, I get to define them all over again.
- Symantec needs to get their developer groups coordinated regarding
dependencies in their updates. LiveUpdate will report a dozen updates
but only 1 or 2 will take because they are mutually exclusive of the
others, but LiveUpdate still downloads them all, fails on all the the 1
or 2, makes you reboot, and then you run LiveUpdate again to how many
reloads you have to do to get just a couple of those installed, and
continue repeating. After a fresh install of NIS, I think it was 6 runs
of LiveUpdate with the incumbent reboots before it finally shut up.

It's got a lot of nice stuff and handy features, many that I'd really
miss if I went with some other product. But it just keeps getting more
and more flaky. I have to use my .bat file to reset NIS (stop/kill all
of it and restart/reload it) about 3 times a week. It has also gotten
to be quite the pig for memory consumption. Right now it is eating up
142MB (with ccPxySvc.exe eating up the most at 115MB). My subscriptions
run out May 2005 and I suspect I'll replace NIS before that.

With the behaviors exhibited by Symantec as a software predator, I fear
for the survival and quality of PartitionMagic and DriveImage since they
bought out Powerquest.

 

[JRF]

To all those with problems with Symantec, this is the response I received:

To resolve the issue, which you are facing regarding the remainder of the
subscription service period for NPF 2002, I recommend that you contact
Symantec Customer Service. Symantec Customer Service will be in a better
position to provide precise information. You can contact Symantec Customer
Service at the following phone number:

(800) 441-7234

Symantec Customer Service can be reached at the above-mentioned phone number
from Monday through Friday, from 6:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M. Pacific Time.

It's amazing what a call from the District Attorneys office will do.

 

[Guest]

I visited Symantecs website.. I have Antivirus 2004, which I have yet to have a problem with ,Windows XP Home Edition...love it .......but I saw a AUTOMATED ASSISTANT and used it and it updated an old Version 2 Symantec program somethingoranother and everythings fine.I did not have any 2002 version of any other Symantec product , I only had the Symantec 2004 Antivirus new from the box. I hope this assists you all.And I love that free security check that we can use ,virus and that other check, and they removed none less than 3 ,yes 3.... sasser D things , though I have not seen any reports anywhere of D's, only B's and C's from my system . I live in New Zealand . I did not turn off the Windows XP firewall.

 

[Roger]

I'm in a similar position in that my PC is slowed right down by the
SYMPROXYSVC.EXE process after the latest update to my 2002 SW. I restored my
system to a point before the update and it seems to be OK now. Does anyone
have any comments about the effectiveness of this approach. e.g. are the
latest virus definitions still being used by NAV? Live Update doesn't show
any outstanding updates are required, presumably as the data files aren't
affected by a System Restore.

TIA.

Roger.

 

[JasonL]

I'm in a similar position in that my PC is slowed right down by the

SYMPROXYSVC.EXE process after the latest update to my 2002 SW. I restored my
system to a point before the update and it seems to be OK now. Does anyone
have any comments about the effectiveness of this approach. e.g. are the
latest virus definitions still being used by NAV? Live Update doesn't show
any outstanding updates are required, presumably as the data files aren't
affected by a System Restore.

TIA.

SYMPROXYSVC.EXE becoming unstable was also one of the symptoms I had as
well.

That was being followed by IAMAPP.EXE erroring out.

As I previously noted here, I was able get things back to what "appear" as
functioning after doing an un/re-install of NPF.

NAV appears to still be functioning, including receiving Liveupdates,
however NPF is questionable.

If you could, go into Systemworks are take a look at the "expiration date"
for NPF. Is it the same as just prior to when you "rolled back", or did it
change as mine did.

Also, run Windoctor. When I run Windoctor, its now reporting to me (and
others) that a Norton file called "SYMNETI.DLL" (required by "SNDSvrc.exe")
is missing.

It would be interesting to see if you are seeing the same thing.

Thanks!

 

[Roger]

restored

SYMPROXYSVC.EXE becoming unstable was also one of the symptoms I had as
well.

That was being followed by IAMAPP.EXE erroring out.

As I previously noted here, I was able get things back to what "appear" as
functioning after doing an un/re-install of NPF.

NAV appears to still be functioning, including receiving Liveupdates,
however NPF is questionable.

If you could, go into Systemworks are take a look at the "expiration date"
for NPF. Is it the same as just prior to when you "rolled back", or did it
change as mine did.

Also, run Windoctor. When I run Windoctor, its now reporting to me (and
others) that a Norton file called "SYMNETI.DLL" (required by "SNDSvrc.exe")
is missing.

It would be interesting to see if you are seeing the same thing.

Thanks!

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I also had IAMAPP.EXE failing as well although I
put that down to the CPU being hogged. The use of system restore hasn't
affected the expiration date of my subscription (1/9/04) - everything does
seem to be OK now. Unfortunately I don't have Windoctor so I can't perform
the test as you suggested.

I'm certainly annoyed that this has happened and I won't be renewing my
subscription after this. I'm hoping that Symantec bring out a patch in the
hope of stemming the bad publicity that's clearly building up.

Rog.

 

[JasonL]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I also had IAMAPP.EXE failing as well although
I

put that down to the CPU being hogged. The use of system restore hasn't
affected the expiration date of my subscription (1/9/04) - everything does
seem to be OK now. Unfortunately I don't have Windoctor so I can't perform
the test as you suggested.

I'm certainly annoyed that this has happened and I won't be renewing my
subscription after this. I'm hoping that Symantec bring out a patch in the
hope of stemming the bad publicity that's clearly building up.

I'm with you 100 percent.

At the time of our renewals, had Symantec informed us that NPF2002 would no
longer be supported this coming year and that upgrading to NPF2004 was the
only option, there would be no issue. We were given the choice of renewal,
specifically for NPF2002, though -- and accepted a renewal in favor of an
upgrade.

It seems like poor planning on Symantec's part. They should inform users
when products will no longer be supported well in advance. They should also
impliment a "cut-off date" for subscription renewals.

I contacted Symantec via email and would urge everyone else with this same
issue to do the same. I received the same "cookie-cutter" response as the
other poster in this thread: a number to contact customer support. I plan
on contacting them early next week.

For the time being, I am giving Symantec the benefit of the doubt. I
wouldn't be surprised if they addresss the issue by allowing NPF2002 users
that renewed a current subscription after such-and-such date to be able to
purchase NPF2004 at a reduced price from the "upgrade price". I'd settle
for that.

As the other posted stated, its not so much the money (what are we really
talking about here, average price at a sitdown restuarant?), but the
principle involved. First it starts with "just" $30, then it's $50, then
it's $100, and so forth.

I've liked Norton's products over the last couple of years. They have been,
for the most part, solid and stable, nicely integrated together, easy to
use, etc. I can't say that I got much use out of everything in Systemworks
(all the "resource monitoring" stuff wasn't all that great), but the HDD
defrager (Speed Disk) proved itself to be a great program. Cleansweep
worked well enough. I didn't have it constantly running, as it was somewhat
a resource hog, but would enable it prior to installing things that I knew I
would be removing later.

Planned on upgrading everything in 2005, but depending on outcome of this
may start looking at other products.

 

[Guest]

I have not paid much attention to your posts , did you see my first above?.. its just that it seems to me if I had to update from a version 2 after I installed Norton Antivirus 2004,my only Symantec product, then the update from version 2 is recent. The computer I have now is a replacement for the first I purchased , which was damaged extensively after a servicing ,so I am presuming the computer has not any other previous programs in it ,though I suppose that is possible. It does seem to me all Symantec Norton Live Update users need to update to the newer version of Live Update.I hope I have made some useful sense to someone reading this... and ...do bear with the fact I have not ownrd acomputer for more than 6 months..you may have guessed that already.Thankyou

 

[LAH]

I'm so angry. I received my second email from Symantec in response to my
second email informing them that the recommendations they made did not fix
the problem. The second email was generally a rehash of what was already
said in the first email. I truly don't believe tech support even read it -
just sent out another "form" email. Tried to call and was on hold for about
an hour. Finally had to hang up. Tried an hour later and have been told
the circuits are busy and try later. Is this Symantec's perverted idea of
customer service? This really sucks. At this rate my year's subscription
will be up before I'm even able to speak to a real live person! After all,
I've only got 11 more months.

Thanks for listening to this rant. I might be tempted to "kick the dog"
except she's hiding!

 

[LAH]

OK, I've calmed down. After a wait of over and hour I read the riot act to
customer service who put me through to tech support without the $30.00 fee.
He told me that Symantec released a different version of the Norton Person
Firewall Symantec Redirector patch Friday evening. (I had twice tried
installing it before the new release). So, to be thorough I am going to
delete/uninstall everything Norton/Symantec and give all a go again. Wish
me luck! Tech support was very helpful - once I was able to get through.

 

[JRF]

After talking with the Commonwealth Attorneys office and so informing
Symantec, they provided me with extended subscription for my newer version
of NPF2004. The subscriptions on my NPF2002 were set to expire 12-2-04.
After informing them that I'd been in contact with the CA office, my NPF2004
subscription was extended from 5-14-05 to 12-02-05.

Amazing what a charge of fraud will do to get you moving.

They told me on the phone when I talked to customer support that the so
called "NPF2002" no longer supported pertains only to live support. LOL,
how the hell to you get live support without a District Attorney on the line
with you?

 

[Guest]

I know you don't want to hear this. But, Symantec Sucks! Always has always will. Their customer support leaves more than to be desired. Once they have your money, why should they care right? Theyy used to be a great company for the first 3 years they were in existence. They sold out after 3 years in the biz and the company has never been the same since. You want a great firewall that works fantastic and the company actually supports their products? Then try Sygate Firewall Pro. Go to www.sygate.com. They have a free solution if you want to try this out first. You will not refret this choice. I've been using them for almost 5 years and their software never fails to detect/block intruders. You can backtrace intruders also and report them immediately. Every IP address is listed in a log so you can track every move. My network has never been infiltrated since I switched to this company. Good Computing...................... Computer Geeks Forever!

 

[LAH]

Well, I give up! After spending hours on hold and finally actually getting
assistance twice from live tech support, it has all been to no avail. I
have literally spent two days working on this. I have deleted every
reference to Symantec and Norton as I was advised by Symantec. Have
uninstalled from the Control Panel, run a couple of removal utilities
downloaded from Symantec, edited the registry, deleted files, reinstalled,
held my tongue just right, jumped up and down on one foot (just kidding) and
all manner of variations of the above. I can get the Firewall installed and
running but the second I install the Symantec Redirector for the firewall
things go south. If I don't have the update installed then I cannot
download any new intrusion signatures. Guess the money I just spent on a
new subscription is money down the drain.

Currently I've reinstalled Norton SystemWorks2003, with the antivirus
included. Downloaded and installed the updates successfully. So that part
of my security is up and running. When I've attended to a few other things
in my life, I will be looking for a new firewall and popup stopper.

Did I mention that while I had Norton uninstalled I foolishly opened an
email supposedly from a relative? Let me explain that a few days ago my
cousin and his family were in a serious car accident - killing one and
putting two others in serious condition. As I was anxious for news I
thought I would throw caution to the wind just this once. Your got it - I
got infected with a virus. Geez, why do I make things hard for myself?

I'd be interested in learning how others got their Norton Personal Firewall
with update up and running.

 

[Lester Stiefel]

Well, I give up! After spending hours on hold and finally actually getting
assistance twice from live tech support, it has all been to no avail. I
have literally spent two days working on this. I have deleted every
reference to Symantec and Norton as I was advised by Symantec. Have
uninstalled from the Control Panel, run a couple of removal utilities
downloaded from Symantec, edited the registry, deleted files, reinstalled,
held my tongue just right, jumped up and down on one foot (just kidding) and
all manner of variations of the above. I can get the Firewall installed and
running but the second I install the Symantec Redirector for the firewall
things go south. If I don't have the update installed then I cannot
download any new intrusion signatures. Guess the money I just spent on a
new subscription is money down the drain.

Currently I've reinstalled Norton SystemWorks2003, with the antivirus
included. Downloaded and installed the updates successfully. So that part
of my security is up and running. When I've attended to a few other things
in my life, I will be looking for a new firewall and popup stopper.

Did I mention that while I had Norton uninstalled I foolishly opened an
email supposedly from a relative? Let me explain that a few days ago my
cousin and his family were in a serious car accident - killing one and
putting two others in serious condition. As I was anxious for news I
thought I would throw caution to the wind just this once. Your got it - I
got infected with a virus. Geez, why do I make things hard for myself?

I'd be interested in learning how others got their Norton Personal Firewall
with update up and running.

Perform a clean install of xp. Then disable the internal firewall.
DoNot Connect to the internet yet. Restart. Install NSW/PF 2003
with the Internal FW disabled. Restart, connect and run updates
from norton. Afterwards, run MSupdates. Be sure to download all
updates you need and install offline. Then defrag and reinstall other
programs. Its the only way around that issue. Had that problem
once before, its a trojan that causes the problem.

 

[LAH]

Perform a clean install of xp. Then disable the internal firewall.
DoNot Connect to the internet yet. Restart. Install NSW/PF 2003
with the Internal FW disabled. Restart, connect and run updates
from norton. Afterwards, run MSupdates. Be sure to download all
updates you need and install offline. Then defrag and reinstall other
programs. Its the only way around that issue. Had that problem
once before, its a trojan that causes the problem.

This might work but I'm still running Windows 98. I know, I know, I've
really got to get with the times.