{Kelly & Family Threads}

T

Terry

On 9/8/2005 9:28 AM On a whim, Leythos pounded out on the keyboard
Why was the Govenor on TV stating that she delayed Bush's offer for
troops for 24 hours? I didn't see that in your time-line. It was on Fox
and CNN, she said it in front of the camera's - pretty hard to ignore it
or say she didn't say it at that point.

I didn't see any request for proof of facts or links to "beamish's"
Timeline. Interesting...

--
Terry

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P

Plato

kurttrail said:
So why didn't troops get into NO until Friday?

Kurt, you may want to drop this. Troops or national guard, it takes
time to get it going. No matter what president.
 
K

kurttrail

Terry said:
On 9/8/2005 9:28 AM On a whim, Leythos pounded out on the keyboard


I didn't see any request for proof of facts or links to "beamish's"
Timeline. Interesting...

beamish gave the link that was the source of the timeline, and that
source had links to credible news articles and government press releases
that backed up the timeline.

Interesting how that works!

You should go to beamish's source, and follow some of the supporting
links. It is very interesting indeed!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
 
K

kurttrail

Plato said:
Kurt, you may want to drop this.
Nope.

Troops or national guard, it takes
time to get it going. No matter what president.


Q General, Jamie McIntyre from CNN. To what extent is this
additional assistance you've outlined today a response to a request from
the state governors in Louisiana, Mississippi? And if so, can you tell
us when specifically you got that request?



GEN. HONORÉ: Yes, sir. The process starts, sir, in this
particular event, with a request Friday of last week, as the approximate
date for defense coordinating offices to be established in Florida,
Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. Those were established in those
states over Friday [8/26] and Saturday.



Q Sir, I'm specifically interested in how soon after the
hurricane hit and the extent of the damage became known did the
governors request additional assistance above and beyond what they had
requested before?



GEN. HONORÉ: Sir, that started to happen on Saturday, as
the hurricane was approaching, and was executed with the movement of my
headquarters on Sunday to Mississippi, where we established a joint --
JTF headquarters here in Mississippi with a forward cell of the 5th
United States Army in Louisiana. And on Sunday we established
JTF-Katrina, with myself as the task force commander.



And since that time, we've continued to flow naval air and
Army helicopter support and other assets, as requested by the governor,
through FEMA. And that is the process, and you know that works. The
governor identified a requirement. It goes to FEMA. That requirement
is sent to Northern Command, my boss, Admiral Keating, as parallel to
General McNeill at Forces Command. And we have started to flow the
forces to your region. Over.



MR. DI RITA: You know -- it's Larry DiRita -- I think what
people are interested in, if you know, is when specifically or if indeed
did the governors specifically ask for additional security forces and
when that might have been? And if you don't know that, we'll try and
find it, but that would be -- I think that's a little more refined
aspect of what the reporter's asking for.



GEN. HONORÉ: Yeah, that was incremental. The security
force piece was executed through a process called EMAC. That started on
Sunday, a collaboration between the adjutant general and the National
Guard Bureau to flow additional capabilities to Louisiana and to
Mississippi. That flow started approximately around Sunday. Forces
started moving once the eye of the hurricane had passed and we could
start moving forces in and assist the states, Alabama pushed forces into
Mississippi as well as forces from Texas started to flow into Louisiana,
as well as other states. But that's the approximate phase of the
operation. Again, that was executed through National Guard arrangements
to move National Guard capability where it's needed. And that is what
is happening, an extension of that, now.



The DOD capability was based on requests that came from FEMA
for additional ability to assist in search and rescue, and that was
called a mission assignment. Those started on Sunday. And we were here
on Sunday, and by Monday, the Bataan was present, as well as federal
helicopters started arriving Monday to assist in the search and rescue
and the sustainment operation, that that is the timeline as it was
executed in the process.


__________________________________________

Troops were starting to be asked for a full week before the main force
on the came in rolling it on truck on Friday 9/2.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
 
L

Leythos

"Quite frankly, I doubt I trust any news source 100% of the time. Like
how to spot pornography, that is how I figure out if a news article is
credible, I know it when I see it."

So, what you're saying is that unless the entire site agrees with your
beliefs, that you don't see any reason to believe that anything there is
factual (according to the site), and that you can't then choose to
discount any link anytime.

If you can't give us a link to a media source that you trust, then
you're wasting everyone's time.
 
L

Leythos

On 9/8/2005 9:28 AM On a whim, Leythos pounded out on the keyboard


I didn't see any request for proof of facts or links to "beamish's"
Timeline. Interesting...

I didn't ask because I watched, on TV, the actual Governor state that
she delayed the action for 24 hours.
 
K

kurttrail

Leythos said:
So, what you're saying is that unless the entire site agrees with your
beliefs, that you don't see any reason to believe that anything there
is factual (according to the site), and that you can't then choose to
discount any link anytime.

Where did I say that? Some sources have proven themselves
untrustworthy time and time again. Like the Moonies, WorldNut,
SpewsMuch.

Most news source that, I judge the credibility of each article on a case
by case basis.
If you can't give us a link to a media source that you trust, then
you're wasting everyone's time.

There is no news source that I trust totally, but I know a credible
article when I see it.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
 
L

Leythos

There is no news source that I trust totally, but I know a credible
article when I see it.

Having been in the service, been in locations with operations that were
reported by the media (which didn't report what was actually happening)
and having worked with intel groups and other agencies, I also don't
believe everything in print/tv/media as I've seen many cases where the
information has been taken out of context, wrong, and even once in a
while, altered for the benefit of ratings.

What I do accept, is when I see what appear to be official documents -
like the disaster plan on the n/o website (that is also mentioned in
several articles I've read). I also accept that the Governor said, on
TV, in front of a camera, where I could hear her own words, say that she
turned down President Bush's offer to bring in the troops and to
coordinate the relief effort. I also belive the N/O mayor who also has
been quoted as saying the exact same thing.

So, combining three things:

1) The lack of response by the state to provide an evacuation in a
timely manner and no supplies brought in from surviving areas for those
in the staging areas.

2) The statement in her own words in video on CNN and Fox that she
delayed accepting Federal Help from Bush for 24 hours.

3) The mayors statements confirming #2

I see a clear reason why things have transpired in the manner/time they
have. If the Governor had accepted the help when offered, there would
have been a lot more action a lot sooner.

It also appears that even without her permission that Military resources
were already staging for when they knew the call would come.

That is what I see as facts based on the intel I have gathered from many
sources (not just those listed above).
 
T

Terry

On 9/8/2005 9:28 AM On a whim, Leythos pounded out on the keyboard

I didn't see any request for proof of facts or links to "beamish's"
Timeline. Interesting...

beamish gave the link that was the source of the timeline, and that
source had links to credible news articles and government press releases
that backed up the timeline.

Interesting how that works!

You should go to beamish's source, and follow some of the supporting
links. It is very interesting indeed!
[/QUOTE]

I guess it depends on the paper trail and who you trust (referring to
the parent company of thinkprogress.org);

http://mensnewsdaily.com/blog/malven/2005/06/keeping-tabs-on-left-american-progress.html



--
Terry

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T

Terry

On 9/8/2005 2:16 PM On a whim, Leythos pounded out on the keyboard
I didn't ask because I watched, on TV, the actual Governor state that
she delayed the action for 24 hours.

Sorry, I was referring to the credibility of the timeline, not your
statement;
http://mensnewsdaily.com/blog/malven/2005/06/keeping-tabs-on-left-american-progress.html

Any article can contain whatever facts one needs to support their
agenda... It seems to always come down to who points the finger first.

--
Terry

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L

Leythos

Any article can contain whatever facts one needs to support their
agenda... It seems to always come down to who points the finger first.

Yea, but it's hard for someone to deny saying something when it's seen,
from their own lips, on Fox and CNN.
 
T

Terry

On 9/8/2005 2:53 PM On a whim, Leythos pounded out on the keyboard
Yea, but it's hard for someone to deny saying something when it's seen,
from their own lips, on Fox and CNN.

Agreed. But what you are quoting me saying, I was referring to the
"timeline" and how something as simple as that can be skewed by the
writers. The link I provided questions the credibility of
thinkprogress.org, who state being "nonpartisan".

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
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Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
 
L

Leythos

On 9/8/2005 2:53 PM On a whim, Leythos pounded out on the keyboard


Agreed. But what you are quoting me saying, I was referring to the
"timeline" and how something as simple as that can be skewed by the
writers. The link I provided questions the credibility of
thinkprogress.org, who state being "nonpartisan".

Sorry, didn't want anyone to think I was agreeing or not agreeing. I've
seen so many reports that have opposing sides and I've taken to just
looking at the physical and the official disaster plan document on the
new orleans website.
 
L

Leythos

On 9/8/2005 2:53 PM On a whim, Leythos pounded out on the keyboard


Agreed. But what you are quoting me saying, I was referring to the
"timeline" and how something as simple as that can be skewed by the
writers. The link I provided questions the credibility of
thinkprogress.org, who state being "nonpartisan".

You know, I think there is one thing that I herd on the news the other
day, the Red Cross is going to divide the money up and give it to the
Governors to do as they see fit. Based on the Governors performance
already, and during this, I'm real worried that we'll see more of the
same from her.
 
K

kurttrail

Terry said:
beamish gave the link that was the source of the timeline, and that
source had links to credible news articles and government press
releases that backed up the timeline.

Interesting how that works!

You should go to beamish's source, and follow some of the supporting
links. It is very interesting indeed!

I guess it depends on the paper trail and who you trust (referring to
the parent company of thinkprogress.org);

http://mensnewsdaily.com/blog/malven/2005/06/keeping-tabs-on-left-american-progress.html[/QUOTE]

Did I say I trusted them? Nope. What I said was follow the supporting
links in their timeline. Sources like the Office of the Governor of
LA, the Dept. of Defense, the White House, and a whole slew of print and
TV news links.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
 
K

kurttrail

Leythos said:
Having been in the service, been in locations with operations that
were reported by the media (which didn't report what was actually
happening) and having worked with intel groups and other agencies, I
also don't believe everything in print/tv/media as I've seen many
cases where the information has been taken out of context, wrong, and
even once in a while, altered for the benefit of ratings.

What I do accept, is when I see what appear to be official documents -
like the disaster plan on the n/o website

Never had any disagreement with that.
(that is also mentioned in
several articles I've read). I also accept that the Governor said, on
TV, in front of a camera, where I could hear her own words, say that
she turned down President Bush's offer to bring in the troops and to
coordinate the relief effort.

Which was probably edited to a sound bite.
I also belive the N/O mayor who also has
been quoted as saying the exact same thing.

So, combining three things:

1) The lack of response by the state to provide an evacuation in a
timely manner and no supplies brought in from surviving areas for
those in the staging areas.

LOL! The evacuation went much better than expected. During the
"Hurricane Pam Exercise" last year, a Cat 3 hurricane was estimated to
strand 300,000 people in the city. -
http://www.lsu.edu/highlights/052/pam.html

Katrina, a Cat 4 hurricane, has been estimated to have only stranded
around 80,000 people. -
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1759825,00.html

So the actual evacution from a Cat 4 hurricane was nearly 75% better
than estimates for a Cat 3.
2) The statement in her own words in video on CNN and Fox that she
delayed accepting Federal Help from Bush for 24 hours.

Yeah, on Friday after the troops had already started pouring in, and at
the point she didn't need to turn over total control to the Feds any
more.
3) The mayors statements confirming #2

I see a clear reason why things have transpired in the manner/time
they have. If the Governor had accepted the help when offered, there
would have been a lot more action a lot sooner.

How? By the time the Feds asked for total control on 9/2, 4 days after
the hurricane, it wasn't really necessary any more, as the troops she
had been asking for finally started rolling in.
It also appears that even without her permission that Military
resources were already staging for when they knew the call would come.

"A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal
authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances
under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains
of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor
and the New Orleans mayor." -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

Bush didn't need her permission, he was too much of a wuss to do without
her permission.
That is what I see as facts based on the intel I have gathered from
many sources (not just those listed above).

LOL! Yeah and since you don't link to any of it we just have to take
your word for it all!

Just in case you don't realize it, YOU ARE NOT A CREDIBLE NEWS SOURCE!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
 
L

Leythos

Just in case you don't realize it, YOU ARE NOT A CREDIBLE NEWS SOURCE!

And just because you refuse to look for it and because you don't find it
credible, doesn't make me any more or less credible than anyone else. If
you choose to be blind you can be tricked into seeing anything.
 
K

kurttrail

Leythos said:
And just because you refuse to look for it and because you don't find
it credible, doesn't make me any more or less credible than anyone
else. If you choose to be blind you can be tricked into seeing
anything.

LOL!

You claimed that "The lack of response by the state to provide an
evacuation in a timely manner"

And I showed, using credible sources to substantiate what I replied, how
the evacuation actually went off better than what was estimated for a
Cat 3 Hurricane!
______________________________________________________

LOL! The evacuation went much better than expected. During the
"Hurricane Pam Exercise" last year, a Cat 3 hurricane was estimated to
strand 300,000 people in the city. -
http://www.lsu.edu/highlights/052/pam.html

Katrina, a Cat 4 hurricane, has been estimated to have only stranded
around 80,000 people. -
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1759825,00.html

So the actual evacution from a Cat 4 hurricane was nearly 75% better
than estimates for a Cat 3.
______________________________________________________

You can see and read my source of info for yourself. Your claim that
"The lack of response by the state to provide an evacuation in a timely
manner" is totally unsubstantiated, and that is why you are not a
credible source.

I bet a lot of people didn't realize how successful the pre-hurricane
evacuation really was, when compared to what was expected, until I
demonstrated it with my links.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
 

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