N
Nonny
Thanks Timothy, but that is not a concern. I'm adding Vista to an XP
machine.
Thanks Timothy, but that is not a concern. I'm adding Vista to an XP
machine.
T
Timothy Daniels
If your PC is a desktop that has a spare 5 1/4" expansion bay,
the least complex way (although it may involve the most physical
work and expense) is to use a "mobile rack" or "drive caddy".
Such a device enables you to easily swap hard drives when you
want to swap OSes - you just have a operating system on each
of 2 hard drive trays that you choose between. Kingwin makes
an extensive line of mobile racks for both IDE ("PATA") and
SATA hard drives: http://kingwin.com/mobileracks.asp
For PATA HDs, I like the model with (the very effective) 80mm
fan in the bottom of the removable tray:
http://kingwin.com/product_pages/kf812tbk.asp
Search Google using "Kingwin" and the model no. for prices.
They usually go for around $25 for the assembly, maybe $17
for extra trays. Internally, these mobile racks plug into HD
controller ports just like any internal HD. If you need longer
cables (or shorter cables) to fit inside the PC's case, Silicon Valley
Compucycle sells an extensive line of "round" cables for
PATA drives: http://www.svc.com/ide-floppy-cable.html and
various lengths of SATA cables for
SATA drives: http://www.svc.com/sata-cable.html .
Another more difficult, but very effective, procedure is to use
an SPDT micro toggle switch that controls the power for each of
2 internal HDs - one OS on each HD. (In the case of PATA HDs,
this works best if each HD is at the end position of its IDE cable.)
By setting the switches before applying power to the PC, you can
control which HDs are seen by the BIOS and thus which HD controls
booting. The running OS has no access to the files in the other HD,
and no conflict exists in regards to restore points. I have such
microswitches mounted in the 1/4" i.d. ventillation holes under the
plastic fascia of my desktop, and by reaching with a bent paper
clip, I can control which HD(s) get(s) power.
You could also install each OS independently on separate HDs,
i.e. with only the HD connected that will receive the installed OS,
and by using the BIOS just after startup, you could set which HD
would have boot control. That would control which OS gets booted,
but since the running OS would be able so see the files of the other
OS, you would still have to contend with the restore point conflict.
But the eventual removal of the unwanted OS would be trivially easy
for all these methods - just remove the HD containing the unwanted
OS.
*TimDaniels*
the least complex way (although it may involve the most physical
work and expense) is to use a "mobile rack" or "drive caddy".
Such a device enables you to easily swap hard drives when you
want to swap OSes - you just have a operating system on each
of 2 hard drive trays that you choose between. Kingwin makes
an extensive line of mobile racks for both IDE ("PATA") and
SATA hard drives: http://kingwin.com/mobileracks.asp
For PATA HDs, I like the model with (the very effective) 80mm
fan in the bottom of the removable tray:
http://kingwin.com/product_pages/kf812tbk.asp
Search Google using "Kingwin" and the model no. for prices.
They usually go for around $25 for the assembly, maybe $17
for extra trays. Internally, these mobile racks plug into HD
controller ports just like any internal HD. If you need longer
cables (or shorter cables) to fit inside the PC's case, Silicon Valley
Compucycle sells an extensive line of "round" cables for
PATA drives: http://www.svc.com/ide-floppy-cable.html and
various lengths of SATA cables for
SATA drives: http://www.svc.com/sata-cable.html .
Another more difficult, but very effective, procedure is to use
an SPDT micro toggle switch that controls the power for each of
2 internal HDs - one OS on each HD. (In the case of PATA HDs,
this works best if each HD is at the end position of its IDE cable.)
By setting the switches before applying power to the PC, you can
control which HDs are seen by the BIOS and thus which HD controls
booting. The running OS has no access to the files in the other HD,
and no conflict exists in regards to restore points. I have such
microswitches mounted in the 1/4" i.d. ventillation holes under the
plastic fascia of my desktop, and by reaching with a bent paper
clip, I can control which HD(s) get(s) power.
You could also install each OS independently on separate HDs,
i.e. with only the HD connected that will receive the installed OS,
and by using the BIOS just after startup, you could set which HD
would have boot control. That would control which OS gets booted,
but since the running OS would be able so see the files of the other
OS, you would still have to contend with the restore point conflict.
But the eventual removal of the unwanted OS would be trivially easy
for all these methods - just remove the HD containing the unwanted
OS.
*TimDaniels*
T
Timothy Daniels
Terabyte Unlimited sells a similar boot manager utility (that includes
a partition manager) that costs $35. It's called BootIt-Next Generation,
or "BootIt-NG" or just "BING":
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm
Although it costs money, it is maintained and updated, and there
is technical support.
*TimDaniels*
a partition manager) that costs $35. It's called BootIt-Next Generation,
or "BootIt-NG" or just "BING":
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm
Although it costs money, it is maintained and updated, and there
is technical support.
*TimDaniels*
N
Nonny
[tons of really great stuff snipped]
HOLY CRAP! That's a lot of stuff to ingest!
My mobo will handle 4 IDE drives and 2 SATA drives. I currently have
all the IDE slots filled (two internal HDs, two optical drives), but
still have a SATA slot available.
It looks as if my best bet would be to use the second IDE drive for
Vista and use the BIOS for changing the boot order.
I think I need a martini (or two or three) while I mull this over <g>
HUGE thanks to everyone who has replied so far.
T
Timothy Daniels
Hiding OSes and removing an OS from a dual-boot menu
are different problems. The former is not handled by MS
boot managers. The latter can be handled by MS utilities
in the case of both XP and Vista (or by free EasyBCD or
VistaBootPro in the case of Vista). The step-by-step
procedures are described extensively in various web sites
and newsgroups. (This is well-known by the MVPs. I'm
just pointing this out for the OP.)
*TimDaniels*
are different problems. The former is not handled by MS
boot managers. The latter can be handled by MS utilities
in the case of both XP and Vista (or by free EasyBCD or
VistaBootPro in the case of Vista). The step-by-step
procedures are described extensively in various web sites
and newsgroups. (This is well-known by the MVPs. I'm
just pointing this out for the OP.)
*TimDaniels*
N
Nonny
Gotcha. Thanks.
<pouring my second martini>
T
Timothy Daniels
Nonny said:
Fortunately, that is the trivial case. (Most people have trouble
with adding XP to a pre-installed Vista.). This website shows how
by using the free EasyBCD in place of using MS's bcdedit.exe
commands to adjust the BootConfigurationData file:
http://apcmag.com.au/how_to_dualboot_vista_with_xp__stepbystep_guide_with_screenshots.htm
This is the Vista implementation of MS's traditional "install
the newest OS last" procedure. This will leave you with the usual
conflicting restore points, but Colin Barnhorst gave you the link
for the web page which explains how to handle that (if you really
want to).
*TimDaniels*
P
Pegasus \(MVP\)
Timothy Daniels said:
There are two issues involved:
a) "Removing an OS from a dual-boot menu" (your words):
We both know that this is a trivial issue.
b) Removing an OS from a dual-boot installation. This
is often non-trivial, depending on how the dual OS
installation was performed.
I think the OP would appreciate a link to a site that explains
how to safely remove WinXP from his machine at a later stage,
and how to deal with the drive letter issue.
N
Nonny
<pouring my third>
<hiccup>
Umm... yes.
M
Michael Jennings
Nonny said:
I liked Vista at first, but then became very annoyed with it and accepted XP.
Just format a partition and install Vista. Have some more martinis. Forget about
the stupid restore points thing - fix it later or don't bother. Aim install at
the
partition you formatted - avoid drunkenly telling Vista install to wipe out XP.
N
Nonny
I'm safe (for the time being): I don't have a Vista disc to install.
Am just "contemplating".
[hic]
C
Colin Barnhorst
MS has published the procedure (a registry entry) for this. See:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185
C
Colin Barnhorst
See my previous reply for the procedure to protect restore points and other
VSS files.
VSS files.
C
Colin Barnhorst
Michael doesn't know about the KB article I linked for you at
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185
Nonny said:
C
Colin Barnhorst
It prevents XP volsnap.sys from seeing Vista volumes at all. All VSS files
are secure when booting into XP. You seem to be in denial that this issue
has been remedied. Why?
are secure when booting into XP. You seem to be in denial that this issue
has been remedied. Why?
C
Colin Barnhorst
A boot manager is not necessary. The KB at
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185 provides the means to hide Vista from
XP while leaving access to XP from Vista. It resolves the XP volsnap.sys
issue completely. Pleas review the KB. This is by far the least intrusive
resolution to the issue as it requires a simple registry entry in XP.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185 provides the means to hide Vista from
XP while leaving access to XP from Vista. It resolves the XP volsnap.sys
issue completely. Pleas review the KB. This is by far the least intrusive
resolution to the issue as it requires a simple registry entry in XP.
T
Timothy Daniels
Nonny said:
If you want to keep the internal IDE HDs as they are, you can
add a PCI or PCIe expansion card for 2 or 4 more IDE or SATA
HDs, or you can install a simple (and cheap) bracket to convert the
SATA to eSATA and run an eSATA cable out to an external eSATA
enclosure that holds a SATA HD.
Here are the SATA-eSATA adaptor brackets:
http://www.firewire-1394.com/external-sata-solutions.htm
Or you could use a PCIe eSATA card from SIIG:
http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=SC-SA2012-S1
or from Promise:
http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?product_id=168
or a PCI eSATA card from SIIG:
http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=SC-SAE412-S3
Kingwin is just on maker of external eSATA enclosures.
I like their JT series because they're all-aluminum and they have
cooling fans: http://kingwin.com/product_pages/jt35ebk.asp
This comes in eSATA and USB/eSATA models.
The Z1 series looks cooler, but the enclosures are plastic:
http://kingwin.com/product_pages/z135eu_bk.asp
A Google web search using "Kingwin" and the model nos.
should reveal prices around $25.
If you need eSATA cables of various lengths (the eSATA
spec allows cables lengths up to 2 meters long), here are some
from Silicon Valley Compucycle:
http://www.svc.com/esata-cable.html and
from Firewire-1394:
http://www.firewire-1394.com/sata-cables-shielded.htm .
Go nuts!
BTW, I'd just go with the 2 internal HDs and use the BIOS
to toggle between the two.
*TimDaniels*
T
Timothy Daniels
Pegasus (MVP) said:
Removing XP from a Vista dual-boot menu requires a
free download utility or some expertise with Vista's command
line utilities. It's removing XP that is trivial - just reformat its
partition or even delete it. This works for Vista because Vista's
BCD file (its "boot menu" and configuration data) locates OSs'
partitions by the sector offset from the beginning of their HDs,
not by the position in the list of partitions (i.e. not the partition's
"number"). A Google search with "remove xp from vista dual boot"
reveals (in part):
http://pcproblems.wordpress.com/2007/09/27/uninstall-xp-from-dual-boot-with-vista-machine/
http://www.syschat.com/remove-xp-xp-vista-dual-boot-1927.html
From near the end of the following web page:
http://apcmag.com/how_to_dualboot_vista_with_xp__stepbystep_guide_with_screenshots.htm
"If you decide that dual-booting Vista and XP is not for you, EasyBCD
lets you wind back the clock.
"All you have to do is remove Vista's boot manager - go to "Manage
Bootloader", select "Uninstall the Vista Bootloader" and then
"Write MBR". Restart the machine and that's it - the XP boot loader
is the only one left on the system and XP loads. You can then delete the
Vista partition and use GParted to re-extend the partition to take up the
entire disk, or the Extend command in Vista DISKPART."
Notice that this uses the free downloadable utility "EasyBCD",
available from NeoSmart Technologies: http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1 .
*TimDaniels*
M
Michael Jennings
Uh, not so! Nonny keeps trimming out informative content. Look:
Vista install is practically idiot-proof. It can set up dual boot while an
impaired user is seeing double. The deal with blinding XP to Vista can
be done post install, or not done at all if you don't care to impair XP.
Vista install is practically idiot-proof. It can set up dual boot while an
impaired user is seeing double. The deal with blinding XP to Vista can
be done post install, or not done at all if you don't care to impair XP.
T
Timothy Daniels
Pegasus (MVP) said:
You're the expert on the drive letter issue, but as you know,
it's only an esthetics issue. That is, if one is willing to let Vista
continue to refer to its own partition as "D:", nothing has to be
done. But if Vista is installed independently of XP, i.e. while
the HD containing the XP installation is disconnected (or hidden),
the Vista installer will tell Vista to call its own partition "C:",
with the result that each OS, WHEN IT IS RUNNING, will
call its own partition "C:" and the other OS's partition by some
other name which depends on how many other partitions there
are in the system. If there are only 2 partitions - XP's and Vista's -
each OS will call the other OS's partition "D:". But no problems,
be hoppy!
*TimDaniels*