Bootable copy of XP partition.

[Bob Taylor]

Regards to All,

Win XP SP2

I have two hard drives, each partitioned. The first drive has the XP
partition (C) and a partition (E) with all my data. One partition on
my second drive (D) has backup and archive files. The others are unused.

I want to make a bootable copy of my c drive onto the first (unused)
partition of the second drive without destroying the archive and
backup partition (D).

What program can do this?

Acronis cannot do this and I have been assured that EASEUS Data
Backup & Recovery cannot do it either. (Both of these want to destroy
the whole drive)

I used to do this regularly with Win 98 using PowerQuest Partition
Magic, but this was bought by Norton and is no longer available which
is a shame because it was a very good program. I still have a copy of
the old Partition Magic, but it will not copy a XP boot partition.

Thanks for your attention to my problem,
Bob Taylor
philologos at mindspring dot com

 

[Paul]

Regards to All,

Win XP SP2

I have two hard drives, each partitioned. The first drive has the XP
partition (C) and a partition (E) with all my data. One partition on my
second drive (D) has backup and archive files. The others are unused.

I want to make a bootable copy of my c drive onto the first (unused)
partition of the second drive without destroying the archive and backup
partition (D).

What program can do this?

Acronis cannot do this and I have been assured that EASEUS Data Backup
& Recovery cannot do it either. (Both of these want to destroy the
whole drive)

I used to do this regularly with Win 98 using PowerQuest Partition
Magic, but this was bought by Norton and is no longer available which is
a shame because it was a very good program. I still have a copy of the
old Partition Magic, but it will not copy a XP boot partition.

Thanks for your attention to my problem,
Bob Taylor
philologos at mindspring dot com

There is a list here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disk_partitioning_software

Easeus Partition Master comes in a free version. No idea what feature set.

GParted (comes with its own bootable Linux OS on CD) is also free.
I have a copy, gave it a quick test, but the program makes me
nervous, due to presenting status messages for operations that
make no sense with respect to the currently requested operation.
Like Partition Magic, it has the notion of queuing up operations
until you click an Apply button. But what bothered me, is it
was printing things on the screen as component operations, that
seemed to have nothing to do with what I wanted done. (I.e. If
you were moving a partition, you wouldn't expect to see "resizing
your partition" in the status window. That pisses me off. When
something as risky as partition meddling is being done, I don't
need surprises.)

I suppose, depending on the brand of disk drive you've got,
you could download a tool from a disk drive manufacturer. But
such a freebie, may have restrictions on what operations it
supports.

If you're going with a freebie, I recommend doing a backup
first. All partitioning tools, even Partition Magic, have
had "accidents". If you don't have backups on yet another
disk, then you're taking a risk.

I use Partition Magic 7 here, for some of these operations.
But it still has some restrictions. I think there was some
kind of size restriction I ran into, along the way. And
when I had PM7 make an EXT2 partition for me, it formatted
it in less than an optimal way. When I tried to create a
large file (a lot bigger than 4GB) on my new EXT2 partition,
the operation failed due to the way PM7 had prepared the
partition. Using the appropriate Linux tool to format it,
fixed it. So PM7 still has rough edges, but if I need to do
resizing or moving, I still trust it to not screw up.

I also has the odd issue with the MBR, like PM7 complains
about what some other tool has done to the MBR. And on
one occasion, it stored the partition entries in non-ascending
order in the MBR. Meaning, the third partition entry in the
MBR contained the second partition, and the second partition
entry carried the third partition. This doesn't hurt anything,
except your brain when looking at things like Disk Management,
and trying to figure out what is what

Paul

 

[smlunatick]

Regards to All,

Win XP SP2

I have two hard drives, each partitioned.  The first drive has the XP
partition (C) and a partition (E) with all my data.  One partition on
my second drive (D) has backup and archive files.  The others are unused.

I want to make a bootable copy of my c drive onto the first (unused)
partition of the second drive without destroying the archive and
backup partition (D).

What program can do this?

Acronis cannot do this and I have been assured that  EASEUS Data
Backup & Recovery cannot do it either.  (Both of these want to destroy
the whole drive)

I used to do this regularly with Win 98 using PowerQuest Partition
Magic, but this was bought by Norton and is no longer available which
is a shame because it was a very good program.  I still have a copy of
the old Partition Magic, but it will not copy a XP boot partition.

Thanks for your attention to my problem,
Bob Taylor
philologos at mindspring dot com

Partition Magic was the reference tool on partition cloning. PM7 was
very nice in a "text console" style. PM8 was a great improvement with
the GUI screens. However, the action queueing was very "nerve
racking" since all actions were then processed in a pre-boot
environment.

 

[Bob Taylor]

Easeus Partition Master comes in a free version. No idea what feature set.

As I mentioned, this will not creat a bootable partition. I have been
assured by the support people that they cannot guarantee the copy will
be bootable.

One can google and finds dozens, maybe hundreds, of programs which
will copy disks, but which one will do what I want, make a bootable xp
partition without reformating the entire target disk?

I came to this newsgroup hoping you would know what google doesn't.

If you're going with a freebie, I recommend doing a backup
first. All partitioning tools, even Partition Magic, have

Pardon me! A bootable copy IS a backup. That's the point.

I use Partition Magic 7 here, for some of these operations.

As I mentioned, Partition Magic is no longer available. Again, I have
been so assured by support personel. I had the option of buying a
newer version of Partition Magic a few years ago and I much regret not
doing so.


Thanks for your input.

Bob Taylor

 

[dadiOH]

As I mentioned, this will not creat a bootable partition. I have been
assured by the support people that they cannot guarantee the copy will
be bootable.

One can google and finds dozens, maybe hundreds, of programs which
will copy disks, but which one will do what I want, make a bootable xp
partition without reformating the entire target disk?

The simplest thing is to just install another (minimal) XP to the partition.
Doing so will create a boot menu from which you can boot should the
need/desire arise. To avoid confusion, you could rename the new XP install
to something like "XP - Basic" in the boot menu.

Alterntively, you can copy the existing XP and make a bootable CD.

You might also want to check out Paragon Hard Drive Manager, it will clone
one HD or partition to another. The same is true of the programs
distributed along with HDs by manufacturers.
http://www.paragon-software.com/home/hdm-personal/features.html

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

 

[Paul]

As I mentioned, this will not creat a bootable partition. I have been
assured by the support people that they cannot guarantee the copy will
be bootable.

One can google and finds dozens, maybe hundreds, of programs which will
copy disks, but which one will do what I want, make a bootable xp
partition without reformating the entire target disk?

I came to this newsgroup hoping you would know what google doesn't.


Pardon me! A bootable copy IS a backup. That's the point.

As I mentioned, Partition Magic is no longer available. Again, I have
been so assured by support personel. I had the option of buying a newer
version of Partition Magic a few years ago and I much regret not doing so.


Thanks for your input.

Bob Taylor

OK, let's try this again.

Does the Easeus tool copy a partition ? If not, I could create any
partition type or size with Linux fdisk plus the variety of
Linux formatting tools. Then, copy the files using the free
Microsoft Robocopy. About the only thing I really need a partition
tool for, is shrinking or expanding partitions. I suspect I can do
the rest with other tools.

These are some of the other needed ingredients:

1) A copy of all the OS files, and preferably the proper permissions on the files.
Robocopy can not only copy files, but also preserve permissions. This
is an example from my crib notes. I use version XP026 of Robocopy.

robocopy C:\ F:\ /mir /copy:datso /dcopy:t /r:3 /w:2 /zb /np /tee /v /log:c_to_f.log

This'll give a hint on how to get it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocopy

Of course, you can't copy OS files safely, while the OS is running, which is
why I do that with a second Windows OS running (Win2K). But that is cheating.

If Easeus can copy a partition, then that takes care of (1).

I could probably copy the files with Linux, but I don't know whether
permissions or ACLs would be handled properly or not in that case. Normally,
I use Linux to get around permissions, which is why I wouldn't count on it.

2) Boot flag set in the MBR. This is 0x80 value, for the partition you want
to be considered for boot. Note that, the MBR consists of 446 bytes of
executable code, contains 4 sixteen byte primary partition entries, and
a signature at the end of 0xAA55 . The "Fixmbr" command from the Windows
Recovery Console, can write the proper 446 bytes onto a disk, without
disturbing the rest of the MBR or trashing the partition entries. I use
the fixmbr command, after an attempted Linux install left the wrong
stuff in there for a subsequent Windows install. What I don't know, is
if you can set the boot flag from Disk Management (OK, I see a "Mark
partition as active" - maybe that is how you'd do it in Windows). I know
I can set if from a Linux LiveCD, using their fdisk command to change
the primary partition entries in the MBR.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749532(WS.10).aspx

"Only one active partition can be set on a hard disk."

On a data only hard disk, you don't need to have any partition with
that 0x80 active flag present. The partition table can only have
one entry with the flag, and if you're multibooting, the boot
manager within that "prime" partition is responsible for bootstrapping
any other partition via its menu entries.

3) Partition boot sector. This is inside the C: partition itself. If you
copy files from the old C:, to the new C:, what will be missing, is the
boot sector. I think it is actually 1536 bytes long (that is what TestDisk
shows me). A duplicate copy is supposed to be at the end of the partition
as well, but I've had partitions here with only one valid copy. The
"fixboot" command from the Windows recovery console, can write the
appropriate 1536 bytes. I've used this command, when moving my C: drive
around. (I haven't investigated how to fix the partition boot stuff at the
sector level, but it might be possible to just copy the correct
offset and group of sectors, from one partition to the other. The Windows
port of "dd" can do that. I've been using "fixboot" instead of doing it
the hard way.)

http://www.chrysocome.net/dd (takes a while to get comfortable with that one)

You can look at the primary partition entries with this freebie. but it
isn't doing anything more than show the numbers that are making the
stuff in Disk Management for you. First link is a picture, second link
is the download. You can see the boot flag of 0x80 marking the second
partition.

http://www.vistax64.com/attachments...n-partiton-recovery-dell-xps-420-dell-tbl.gif

ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PTEDIT32.zip

So, yeah, I think I could "bolt one together". While in theory, I could
use GParted to shrink or expand a partition, I might instead investigate
what utility it is calling underneath, and just use that tool instead.
GParted is a GUI interface to some underlying set of utility programs.
As far as I know, it is generating a script of commands to run. At
the moment, since I have Partition Magic, I don't have much incentive
to tear it apart and see how it works.

HTH,
Paul

 

[Bob Taylor]

The simplest thing is to just install another (minimal) XP to the partition.
Ok.
Doing so will create a boot menu from which you can boot should the
need/desire arise. To avoid confusion, you could rename the new XP install Ok.
to something like "XP - Basic" in the boot menu.

OK

But what about copying my existing OS? Do I just copy on top of this
minimal partition? Not clear how this solves my problem.

Alterntively, you can copy the existing XP and make a bootable CD.

No way. My existing os is far from minimal, about 30gigs and growing.
I have thought about using an external hard drive, but for some
reason you can't boot XP from an external drive.

You might also want to check out Paragon Hard Drive Manager, it will clone
one HD or partition to another. The same is true of the programs

Yes, but will it clone a bootable partition without completely
formating the target disk?

Thanks for the help,
Bob Taylor

 

[Bob Taylor]

OK, let's try this again.

Does the Easeus tool copy a partition ?

Well, as I mentioned in my original message, it does, but the
technical person assures me that they cannot guarantee it will be
bootable.

I think Partition Magic might do the job, but Norton assures me that
they no longer sell it. I suppose one possibility would be to find a
copy of partition magic on amazon or ebay. This I would do, if I were
reasonably sure it would work. Of course there would be no support
for it.


Thanks again for your comments,
Bob Taylor

 

[bobster]

Bob,

Maybe I'm missing something here but it looks like you are making a fairly
simple problem way too difficult. You definitely can boot from an
externally mounted HD.

For about 2 years I have been using an external HD enclosure with an HD that
is physically identical to may main "C" drive HD. At first, I connected it
via a USB2 port but discovered that it could be connected via one of my open
SATA ports. I cloned my "C" drive to it and then was easily able to boot to
it by selecting from the F12 boot menu on my Dell computer (all computers
have this function available at boot but some use a different F key). The
extra HD cost me about $50 and the VanTec enclosure about $35-40.
Partitioning becomes irrelevant as everything that is on your "C" drive gets
cloned to the external drive.

So for less than $100 you can have a backup system that is bullet proof and
ultra reliable that:

1) provides a bootable external HD that contains a clone of your "C" drive.

2) It can be selected during the boot cycle by pressing the appropriate
Function key

3) It can be updated easily by making a new clone on a regular basis (I do
it about once a week). Note, this a complete clone, not just a partition of
your "C" drive

By getting a SATA capable external enclosure and reliable cloning software
(I use Casper 6.0) you can make a new clone in about six minutes (35Gigs)
after an initial one-time "learning" pass of 20 or so minutes without the
fuss and muss of Linux boot discs, etc.

As a major side benefit, this configuration allows one unlimited freedom to
"fool" around with potentially risky software changes to your "C" drive with
the knowledge that a "clean" clone is just a click or two away. This
feature has saved my bacon on many occasions.

=============================================================

The simplest thing is to just install another (minimal) XP to the
partition.
Ok.
Doing so will create a boot menu from which you can boot should the
need/desire arise. To avoid confusion, you could rename the new XP
install Ok.
to something like "XP - Basic" in the boot menu.

OK

But what about copying my existing OS? Do I just copy on top of this
minimal partition? Not clear how this solves my problem.

Alterntively, you can copy the existing XP and make a bootable CD.

No way. My existing os is far from minimal, about 30gigs and growing.
I have thought about using an external hard drive, but for some
reason you can't boot XP from an external drive.

You might also want to check out Paragon Hard Drive Manager, it will clone
one HD or partition to another. The same is true of the programs

Yes, but will it clone a bootable partition without completely
formating the target disk?

Thanks for the help,
Bob Taylor

 

[Paul]

Well, as I mentioned in my original message, it does, but the technical
person assures me that they cannot guarantee it will be bootable.

I think Partition Magic might do the job, but Norton assures me that
they no longer sell it. I suppose one possibility would be to find a
copy of partition magic on amazon or ebay. This I would do, if I were
reasonably sure it would work. Of course there would be no support for it.


Thanks again for your comments,
Bob Taylor

Looking at this:

http://www.partition-tool.com/easeus-partition-manager/comparison.html

it says "Create bootable CD to manage partitions" is not offered
in the Free edition.

But that isn't the same thing as copying your bootable C: WinXP partition,
to some other disk. I think that will work, and you have nothing to worry
about. No "bolting" needed

If there was already a bootable partition on the other
disk, that would be trouble. It would be the same issue if
Partition Magic was involved. Only one partition can have
the active flag set. So if the second disk is currently a
"data" disk, and no partition is currently active (boot flag 0x80),
then you should be able to copy the partition from the other disk.

Other restrictions, are the number of partitions. You can have
up to four primary partitions, or three primary and an extended.
Within the extended, you can have a whole bunch of logical partitions.
Primary partitions are the ones valued for their ability to be
bootable, but only one at a time can have the flag set. I assume,
but have never tried, to host two bootable partitions, and
try flipping the boot flag back and forth between them.

So give the Easeus thing a try. I couldn't see a reason for
that restriction, because they'd have to go out of their way
to break it. I mean, if they didn't want you to have it,
it would be easier to simply not offer a free version.

Paul

 

[Bob Taylor]

Bob,

Maybe I'm missing something here but it looks like you are making a fairly
simple problem way too difficult. You definitely can boot from an
externally mounted HD.

What you are missing is that I was told this and have actually tried
it, but perhaps you know a way around. If you plug a usb hard drive
in and reboot, it does not see the drive until XP has loaded. Too
late to boot it.

Love to know how to get around that.

I don't see how it is me making things difficult. What I want to do
seems very simple.


Regards, Bob Taylor

 

[Bob Taylor]

Looking at this:

http://www.partition-tool.com/easeus-partition-manager/comparison.html

it says "Create bootable CD to manage partitions" is not offered
in the Free edition.

But that isn't the same thing as copying your bootable C: WinXP partition,
to some other disk. I think that will work, and you have nothing to worry
about. No "bolting" needed

The tech guy said no, they couldn't guarantee it. Otherwise I would
be doing it instead of reading your emails.

 

[Daave]

Inline.


bobster, often this is not the case!!!

What you are missing is that I was told this and have actually tried
it, but perhaps you know a way around. If you plug a usb hard drive
in and reboot, it does not see the drive until XP has loaded. Too
late to boot it.

Love to know how to get around that.

Bob:

People have had mixed success with making ordinary USB external hard
drives bootable (it's rarely recommended). The motherboard and BIOS must
support the method and you would need to configure the BIOS correctly.

The easiest way to do this is to use an eSATA hard drive (of course the
motherboard must support eSATA).

How about telling us about your hardware?

 

[dadiOH]

OK

But what about copying my existing OS? Do I just copy on top of this
minimal partition? Not clear how this solves my problem.

Why copy it? Make an image and stash it on a drive. If you need to restore
the image you can do so easily with the program that made it.

The extra XP install is only handy if the main XP is fubared, you don't have
an image and need to get at stuff on the main XP drive.

Yes, but will it clone a bootable partition without completely
formating the target disk?

No idea, try it and see

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

 

[Don Phillipson]

I have two hard drives, each partitioned. The first drive has the XP
partition (C) and a partition (E) with all my data. One partition on
my second drive (D) has backup and archive files. The others are unused.

I want to make a bootable copy of my c drive onto the first (unused)
partition of the second drive without destroying the archive and
backup partition (D).

What program can do this?

Acronis cannot do this and I have been assured that EASEUS Data
Backup & Recovery cannot do it either. (Both of these want to destroy
the whole drive)

The Western Digital "Data Lifeguard" for copying drives does this OK for
Win98SE, so probably for WinXP as well.

 

[bobster]

Bob,

You said,

"I don't see how it is me making things difficult. What I want to do
seems very simple."

Yeah, on second thought you're probably right. I have had such good luck
with the configuration I described that it seems simple to me but maybe not
to everyone. Also, I tend to forget that $100 is a lot of money for some
folks.

One way to avoid going the external route is to use the 2nd internal HD slot
as the clone "target" of the "C" drive. This gives you a very quick,
internal recovery from a "C" drive failure or catastrophic "crash" as it
contains everything -- your OS, all of your apps, and your personal files
and settings. The secret is to have a very reliable clone app and a SATA
capable computer.

I am not an MVP nor even a techie wannabe but I have played around with
versions of Acronis and Ghost and much prefer the simplicity of cloning with
a dedicated clone app. Nothing beats having a "hot spare" (internally or
externally) at the ready in case of problems, especially when that spare can
act as a safe backup as well as provide a disaster recovery function.

The disadvantage of most clone apps is that they don't do individual
partition backup nor "imaging". Both Acronis and Ghost can do cloning but
IMHO it is very klutzy and time-consuming compared to a dedicated cloner.
As I stated in my earlier post, I have had good luck with Casper6.0 -- very
fast and utterly reliable. And no, I have no affiliation with them.

Good luck, Bob. It appears that there are several ways to solve your
"simple" problem

Bob,

Maybe I'm missing something here but it looks like you are making a fairly
simple problem way too difficult. You definitely can boot from an
externally mounted HD.

What you are missing is that I was told this and have actually tried
it, but perhaps you know a way around. If you plug a usb hard drive
in and reboot, it does not see the drive until XP has loaded. Too
late to boot it.

Love to know how to get around that.

I don't see how it is me making things difficult. What I want to do
seems very simple.


Regards, Bob Taylor

 

[mm]

I am not an MVP nor even a techie wannabe

Well I know far less than any of you, but I got the impression that an
array of two SATA drives, set to keep one identical to the other, is
done in order to have an always present backup.

A friend gave me a mobo and two SATA drives, but I havent' yet
assembled a computer around it.

If I eventually do, won't I have my HD backup, like the OP wants?

 

[mm]

As I mentioned, this will not creat a bootable partition. I have been
assured by the support people that they cannot guarantee the copy will
be bootable.

I could assure you that I cannot guarantee that it will be bootable.

I don't see why that is so important.

They don't want to guarantee something. Lots of people are afraid to
offer a guarantee, because people will complain if it doesn't work.

So try it and see if it works, and if it does, it won't matter what
someone is unwilling to guarantee.


BTW, no one here is going to give you a guarantee either.

 

[Paul]

Inline.



bobster, often this is not the case!!!


Bob:

People have had mixed success with making ordinary USB external hard
drives bootable (it's rarely recommended). The motherboard and BIOS must
support the method and you would need to configure the BIOS correctly.

The easiest way to do this is to use an eSATA hard drive (of course the
motherboard must support eSATA).

How about telling us about your hardware?

I have a bookmark here, to a suggested procedure.

http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176

The main benefit of that article, is it gives some
search terms to use, to find other examples.

winxp BootBusExtenders

HTH,
Paul

 

[bobster]

Yes, you will have the major elements to have a "hot spare" backup by having
the 2 SATA drives installed in internal HD positions 1 and 2. Drive 2 must
be at least as large as drive 1 and be properly formatted. Then all you
have to do is clone your position 1 "C" drive to your position 2 drive using
a good clone app of which there are several - some even freeware. I know
that this results in a bootable hot spare because I have been using this
configuration for about 2 years, as well as an externally SATA drive mounted
in a VanTec enclosure which is also bootable. I have also tried connecting
this externally mounted HD via a USB2 connection and it was bootable also.
I prefer to use the SATA3 connection as it seems faster.

Again, there are many ways to have a bootable backup but if you already have
a proper MOBO and two SATA drives, and get a good clone app, IMHO, nothing
could be simpler.

I am not an MVP nor even a techie wannabe

Well I know far less than any of you, but I got the impression that an
array of two SATA drives, set to keep one identical to the other, is
done in order to have an always present backup.

A friend gave me a mobo and two SATA drives, but I havent' yet
assembled a computer around it.

If I eventually do, won't I have my HD backup, like the OP wants?