about John Corlis's vote post

J

John Jay Smith

Disclaimer: I pulled my answer out to a new thread because of the request of
the original poster of the Vote post.

My answer to the stupid vote post:

No as a general rule, but yes on seldom, justified occasions.
This newsgroup is about freeware not nagware, however you cannot forbid
someone from talking!

On some exceptional occasions one might want to give information to a
nagware that is not abusive or irritating, as the last alternative other
than spending money or cracking a program.

John Corlis is mad because I told someone about www.995pdf.com
that is not exactly freeware. But I cant really call it nagware either...
Since "nag" is irritating and unpredictable.
I personally have used the pdf printer and I find it a fantastic product,
NOT some stupid nagware, and I dont mind pressing the close button on the
browser.
I mentioned this software because there is no other freeware in this
category for windows.
If it wasnt so good, I wouldnt have said anything.. I have no gain
whatsoever in talking about a program, nor do I have any wish to post in
this group irrelevant content all the time.

So what does he do? He starts a vote now, so he can then say to me, get lost
no one wants your contribution, you are off topic, bla bla bla....

I find this type of childlike action very disturbing... of troll and NetCop
calibre....trying to create a climate of hate...

I do not regularly post anything else than freeware. On the rare occasion
that I think I should mention something else, I do, and I do this to help,
without having any personal gain.

You could call nagware a program that displays a "contribute" button ...
Or a link towards the developers site...
Its not nagware just because it doesnt pop up? Its still in your field of
vision...

I suspect that he is a nice guy, but everyone can get overly enthusiastic
sometimes.
 
M

Maynard Man

John Jay Smith said:
Disclaimer: I pulled my answer out to a new thread because of the request
of
the original poster of the Vote post.

My answer to the stupid vote post:

No as a general rule, but yes on seldom, justified occasions.
This newsgroup is about freeware not nagware, however you cannot forbid
someone from talking!

On some exceptional occasions one might want to give information to a
nagware that is not abusive or irritating, as the last alternative other
than spending money or cracking a program.

John Corlis is mad because I told someone about www.995pdf.com
that is not exactly freeware. But I cant really call it nagware either...
Since "nag" is irritating and unpredictable.
I personally have used the pdf printer and I find it a fantastic product,
NOT some stupid nagware, and I dont mind pressing the close button on the
browser.
I mentioned this software because there is no other freeware in this
category for windows.
If it wasnt so good, I wouldnt have said anything.. I have no gain
whatsoever in talking about a program, nor do I have any wish to post in
this group irrelevant content all the time.

So what does he do? He starts a vote now, so he can then say to me, get
lost
no one wants your contribution, you are off topic, bla bla bla....

I find this type of childlike action very disturbing... of troll and
NetCop
calibre....trying to create a climate of hate...

I do not regularly post anything else than freeware. On the rare occasion
that I think I should mention something else, I do, and I do this to help,
without having any personal gain.

You could call nagware a program that displays a "contribute" button ...
Or a link towards the developers site...
Its not nagware just because it doesnt pop up? Its still in your field of
vision...

I suspect that he is a nice guy, but everyone can get overly enthusiastic
sometimes.

I completely agree. People come here for a solution which is quick, easy and
free. I respect that, but there are times when the solution is difficult, or
on rare occasions not available, with freeware. I don't see an issue on
these rare occasions to mention something else. I've not met John Corliss or
do I know him but I do find his attitude to anyone who mentions a reference
to anything other than freeware a bit iritating and childish. It's not a
crime, no one has been hurt and world will not end for it. This is a
freeware ng, it will always be a freeware ng and that will not change. But
even the lowest of IQ or the biggest moany old women must accept that on a
few occasions you have to open the odd door, look out the odd window and
look past the horizon sometimes.
The above is not a personal vendetta against John Corliss nor does this post
have judgements on his personal life, but he must change that very childish
signature! Who is he to judge someone a troll and then post their name? I
don't know if he is a nice guy or not, but he seems from what I read here to
be a very grumpy old woman who goes into a sulk when anyone dares suggest
something he dissagrees with. And I'm sure he will respond here with an
incredibly childish "subject closed" as he will have no answers at the end
of his "waffled" response rather admit any shortfalls.
 
B

BT

Quite agree. Probably a nice guy, but a little too pedantic.
Lets all relax a little
Andy



John Jay Smith brought next idea :
 
T

The Seabat

Then they should be directed to alt.comp.warze or some other
appropriate group!


No, by condoning the use of anything other than freeware you create a
crack in the foundation. You say it is only one little nag screen and
you don't mind clicking to close it. The next one will say, aw, it's
only TWO little nag screens and they don't mind closing them. Etc.

Like into a different newsgroup?

And yet the entire remaining dialog of your post below is just that, a
judgement of John Corliss, isn't it? Can you say "hypocritical" ?
 
J

John Corliss

Calling a person a NetCop is (IMO) akin to calling them a Nazi, and:

http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/g/GodwinsLaw.html

So name calling will always cause me to start responding with a tone of
disrespect towards the other party. Nobody likes to be called names.

Not true. Nagware displays a screen that you must close. That's always
been the definition of Nagware. IMO though, if something on the screen
is obnoxious enough, it can rate the status of Nagware though.
I completely agree. People come here for a solution which is quick, easy and
free. I respect that, but there are times when the solution is difficult, or
on rare occasions not available, with freeware. I don't see an issue on
these rare occasions to mention something else. I've not met John Corliss or
do I know him but I do find his attitude to anyone who mentions a reference
to anything other than freeware a bit iritating and childish. It's not a
crime, no one has been hurt and world will not end for it. This is a
freeware ng, it will always be a freeware ng and that will not change. But
even the lowest of IQ or the biggest moany old women must accept that on a
few occasions you have to open the odd door, look out the odd window and
look past the horizon sometimes.
The above is not a personal vendetta against John Corliss nor does this post
have judgements on his personal life, but he must change that very childish
signature!

Who the HELL are you to tell ME what I *MUST* do or not do? I will
continue to use the same signature file whether or not you like it.

Deal with it.
Who is he to judge someone a troll and then post their name?
I don't know if he is a nice guy or not, but he seems from what I read here
to be a very grumpy old woman

Oh, how mature...
who goes into a sulk when anyone dares suggest
something he dissagrees with. And I'm sure he will respond here with an
incredibly childish

Even moreso.
"subject closed" as he will have no answers at the end
of his "waffled"

Continuing along that line.
response rather admit any shortfalls.

How about we refrain from name calling and try to keep this discussion
on a more mature level?

When I feel that I no longer wish to participate in a discussion because
it's getting nowhere, I will always inform the other party that I'm no
longer going to continue with it. The only reason you don't like it when
I do so, is because you're the kind of person who erroneously believes
that having the last word means that you "win".

I don't personally believe that at all, and will continue to end
fruitless discussions by refusing to go further with them, just as I
always have. If you don't like that, you'll just have to deal with it.

As for my signature file, Andy Mabbett *IS* a troll and if you don't
believe me, go back and read his posts or ask any of the regulars here.
So is Doc and even worse, he uses sock puppets. This, in my opinion, is
the worst kind of troll. Both of these guys are newsgroup "stalkers" too
(IMO). If you don't believe me, try pissing off either of them.

The reason I post their names in my signature file is that I will not
lose face when I don't respond to them because they are in my killfile.
And as I've already said, I don't care if you like that or not.

But this is all beside the point.

The whole problem that you and others are stirring up in this group is
based on the definition of freeware. *I* consider freeware to be
software that's written to be free of any kind of price, monetary or
otherwise.

IMO, that definition MUST be protected if we (and I mean EVERYBODY) is
going to be able to continue to download a program with a reasonable
assurance that after they install it, they're not going to get an
unpleasant surprise.

If *you* consider freeware to include the following:

shareware
nagware
trialware
demoware
warez
adware
spyware

then you are entirely missing that point. And if people like you take
over this group, then you might as well change the name of it to
alt.comp.anykindofsoftware and welcome in discussions of commercial
software as well.

Over and out (yep, you guessed right.)

--
John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls like Andy Mabbett or Doc (who uses sock puppets)
for instance. No adware, cdware, commercial software, crippleware,
demoware, nagware, PROmotionware, shareware, spyware, time-limited
software, trialware, viruses or warez for me, please.
 
B

badgolferman

John said:
Disclaimer: I pulled my answer out to a new thread because of the
request of the original poster of the Vote post.

I'm glad you did. I had not been listening in on the other one.
My answer to the stupid vote post:

No as a general rule, but yes on seldom, justified occasions.
This newsgroup is about freeware not nagware, however you cannot
forbid someone from talking!

On some exceptional occasions one might want to give information to a
nagware that is not abusive or irritating, as the last alternative
other than spending money or cracking a program.

Well, the group's name is alt.comp.freeware. If I remember correctly,
there is a charter definition of what is freeware and what is not.
Since this group is also an alt. group it is not moderated so you are
free to post what you want, but at the same time you must be prepared
to accept the consequences of YOUR actions.
John Corlis is mad because I told someone about www.995pdf.com
So what does he do? He starts a vote now, so he can then say to me,
get lost no one wants your contribution, you are off topic, bla bla
bla....

Like I said, be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions.
I find this type of childlike action very disturbing... of troll and
NetCop calibre....trying to create a climate of hate...

He is who he is. You can't change him and he can't change you. If you
don't like his behavior be bigger than him and forgive him.
I suspect that he is a nice guy, but everyone can get overly
enthusiastic sometimes.

He's a big boy and can take care of himself. He also is creating his
own monster that he will have to answer for later. He probably has
more trouble with people and relationships in his life than you do.
That's his problem if it is true.

Personally I have no problem with him and to some extent admire his
tenacity in defending the group's charter. Sometime's he goes too far,
but that is his choice. In doing so he also leaves himself open for
criticism. Maybe someday he'll be able to take it as well as he gives
it.
 
S

stop.net.nannies

Disclaimer: I pulled my answer out to a new thread because of the request of
the original poster of the Vote post.

My answer to the stupid vote post:

No as a general rule, but yes on seldom, justified occasions.
This newsgroup is about freeware not nagware, however you cannot forbid
someone from talking!

On some exceptional occasions one might want to give information to a
nagware that is not abusive or irritating, as the last alternative other
than spending money or cracking a program.

John Corlis is mad because I told someone about www.995pdf.com
that is not exactly freeware. But I cant really call it nagware either...

John is a self-appointed netnanny fascist who doesn't realise that
many people want *a solution or the best solution* for their needs.

This may be a freeware product or sometimes a nagware or even a
chargeable product. It beggars belief that if someone asks for a
program which does X and I know exactly the one which is best for
the job but is chargeable, that I shouldn't mention it and point out
it's not free. That's being helpful to others.

A perfect example is VideoReDo - seem by many as the best video editor
but it's chargeable and always has been. By John's rules this product
should never be mentioned or referred to on a.c.f. IOW it doesn't
exist in his narrow mind. A parallel universe.

He needs to get a life.
 
H

hummingbird

[155 lines snipped]

I find it amusing that despite your strong criticism of others for
cluttering up acf with posts about non-freeware, that you have posted
this post which is 155 lines long and also started the longest thread
in weeks about the subject. More bandwidth has been used up on
debating the topic than by those who post the innocent comments.

Ironic or what?

--
"ID cards will potentially make a difference to any area of
everyday life where you already have to prove your identity,
such as opening a bank account, going abroad on holiday,
claiming a benefit, buying goods on credit and renting a video."
........Charles Clarke December 2004:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-1409799,00.html
 
J

John Jay Smith

I did warn that this was not freeware and described its nature in exact
manner
in my post.. giving warning to the user, if he did not like its nature, he
could ignore it.
I did not lead anyone into a trap for him to lose time..

I am posting the ORIGINAL post that caused Corliss to freak out:
Read for yourself:

This is free showing only a sponsored window that you can easily ignore.
This is not "spyware" and not malicious... only a pop up window from the
actual program.
Free: Fully functional, not a trial and does not expire

http://www.pdf995.com/

Note: I have not tried all the functions but only the pdf printer that is
a tool that I find FANTASTIC.

Some have posted back at me saying that it is not free.... please read the
list on the page
that says:
The Pdf995 Suite offers the following features, all at no cost:

Automatic insertion of embedded links
Hierarchical Bookmarks
....... snip because of many more lines
 
P

Peter Seiler

John Corliss - 29.04.2006 16:29 :
The reason I post their names in my signature file is that I will not
lose face when I don't respond to them because they are in my killfile.
And as I've already said, I don't care if you like that or not.

only a friendly question: If I would have 150 people within my killfile,
should I then post these in my sig not to lose face when I don't respond
to them because they are in my killfile? I'm not sure if that is a good
idea.

BTW: It's interesting that most of the voters of the "call for a
vote"-thread you initiated respond almost bad fullquoting although you
requested only yes or no. This shows how widespreaded certain doubtful
and lazy (mis)behavior is.
 
A

Andy Mabbett

John Corliss said:
Calling a person a NetCop is (IMO) akin to calling them a Nazi

Poppycock!

Oh; BTW, You're a wannabe netcop.

So name calling will always cause me to start responding with a tone of
disrespect towards the other party. Nobody likes to be called names.
Hypocrite!


Nagware displays a screen that you must close. That's always been the
definition of Nagware.
Evidence?

IMO though, if something on the screen is obnoxious enough, it can
rate the status of Nagware though.

Now you contradict yourself.

I will continue to use the same signature file whether or not you like
it.

Even though it's broken and dishonest?
How about we refrain from name calling and try to keep this discussion
on a more mature level?
Hypocrite!

When I feel that I no longer wish to participate in a discussion
because it's getting nowhere, I will always inform the other party that
I'm no longer going to continue with it.

No, you (attempt to) declare it closed. That's not the same thing.
The only reason you don't like it when I do so, is because you're the
kind of person who erroneously believes that having the last word means
that you "win".

You can't see what's wrong with the logic of your claim, can you?

As for my signature file, Andy Mabbett *IS* a troll

Corliss, you are a liar.
So is Doc and even worse, he uses sock puppets.

As have you.
This, in my opinion, is the worst kind of troll. Both of these guys are
newsgroup "stalkers" too (IMO).

You are a liar.
The reason I post their names in my signature file is that I will not
lose face when I don't respond to them because they are in my killfile.

You loose face all the time.
*I* consider freeware to be software that's written to be free of any
kind of price, monetary or otherwise.

Yes, *You* considered it so. This is not your newsgroup. much as you
seem to want it to be.
 
S

Steve H

John is a self-appointed netnanny fascist who doesn't realise that
many people want *a solution or the best solution* for their needs.

This may be a freeware product or sometimes a nagware or even a
chargeable product. It beggars belief that if someone asks for a
program which does X and I know exactly the one which is best for
the job but is chargeable, that I shouldn't mention it and point out
it's not free. That's being helpful to others.

One assumes that when someone asks for a program here, they've taken
note of the newsgroup title - and the inference is that a freeware
solution is required.
When one is prepared to fork out cash for software there exists a
number of other sources of information.
A perfect example is VideoReDo - seem by many as the best video editor
but it's chargeable and always has been. By John's rules this product
should never be mentioned or referred to on a.c.f. IOW it doesn't
exist in his narrow mind. A parallel universe.

....and then some other 'helpful' bod pipes up with his or her
favourite commercial app, then another, then another...and then they
all start banging on about which is better...none of which is of any
interest to those of us here for the freeware.

Regards,
 
J

Jim

John said:
My answer to the stupid vote post:

No as a general rule, but yes on seldom, justified occasions.
This newsgroup is about freeware not nagware, however you cannot forbid
someone from talking!
...
John Corlis is mad because I told someone about www.995pdf.com
that is not exactly freeware. But I cant really call it nagware either...
Since "nag" is irritating and unpredictable.

I've always been under the perception that if the software nags you to
buy it, it's nagware, whether it's random or predictable.

However, it's still free software, but with a disadvantage. That
disadvantage will put it below other products that do the same thing.
In the case of PDF995, CutePDF will also act as a "PDF printer" but
without the pop-up browser window, so (IMO) is a better product. I used
to point people to PDF995 until I heard about CutePDF.
 
J

John Fitzsimons

On 29 Apr 2006 14:27:00 +0200, "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote:

John Corlis is mad because I told someone about

I find this type of childlike action very disturbing... of troll and NetCop
calibre....trying to create a climate of hate...

< snip >

So killfile him. You don't care how much you annoy others so why
should anyone care how much John annoys you ?

Regards, John.
 
S

stop.net.nannies

One assumes that when someone asks for a program here, they've taken
note of the newsgroup title - and the inference is that a freeware
solution is required.

Only sometimes. I've seen many posts from people who are just anxious
to get any advice on a solution, free or otherwise. IMV it is bloody
minded to deny any mention of pay s/w if it is clearly recommended.
When one is prepared to fork out cash for software there exists a
number of other sources of information.

People often post their questions in multiple newsgroups to get as
much advice/as many views as possible.
...and then some other 'helpful' bod pipes up with his or her
favourite commercial app, then another, then another...and then they
all start banging on about which is better...none of which is of any
interest to those of us here for the freeware.

IME in practice that doesn't happen a lot and it sure takes up less
space than John Corliss lecturing everybody who dares to disobey his
rules and then starting huge threads to discuss the topic.
Rather ironic I'd say.
 
A

art2u

I did warn that this was not freeware and described its nature in exact
manner
in my post.. giving warning to the user, if he did not like its nature, he
could ignore it.
I did not lead anyone into a trap for him to lose time..

I am posting the ORIGINAL post that caused Corliss to freak out:
Read for yourself:

This is free showing only a sponsored window that you can easily ignore.
This is not "spyware" and not malicious... only a pop up window from the
actual program.
Free: Fully functional, not a trial and does not expire

http://www.pdf995.com/

Note: I have not tried all the functions but only the pdf printer that is
a tool that I find FANTASTIC.

Some have posted back at me saying that it is not free.... please read the
list on the page
that says:
The Pdf995 Suite offers the following features, all at no cost:

Automatic insertion of embedded links
Hierarchical Bookmarks
...... snip because of many more lines
you really don't have a clue, do you?
it's f*cking nagware!

-Art- (not Art)
 
P

Peter Seiler

hummingbird - 29.04.2006 18:39 :

[155 lines snipped]
thanks

I find it amusing that despite your strong criticism of others for
cluttering up acf with posts about non-freeware, that you have posted
this post which is 155 lines long and also started the longest thread
in weeks about the subject. More bandwidth has been used up on
debating the topic than by those who post the innocent comments.

seconded
 
O

Onno Voors

Only sometimes. I've seen many posts from people who are just anxious
to get any advice on a solution, free or otherwise. IMV it is bloody
minded to deny any mention of pay s/w if it is clearly recommended.

One could simply answer that such a program does not exist as freeware.
People often post their questions in multiple newsgroups to get as
much advice/as many views as possible.

So they'll get their answer anyway in another newsgroup.

Anyway, I don't think that payware or nagware should never be mentioned.
For comparison purposes it can be useful to mention it.
 

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