[PL] PL2005 Ware Issues

Susan Bugher · Oct 1, 2004

Nominations are now open for the the 2005 Pricelessware list. Please
post all comments on ware "issues" in this thread.

In special cases programs may be placed on a Ware Ballot to determine if
the program's ware description is acceptable to newsgroup participants.
The Ware ballot is used only to determine elegibility.. A two-thirds
majority in favor of acceptance is required for a program to be
eligibile for the Pricelessware List. Voting on Pricelessware and Ware
Ballots is done in the same time period.

NOTE: the PL2004 joint listing of GhostScript and GSView (GhostView) has
been revised for the PL2005 Nominations. GSView (GhostView) has been
removed because it is Nagware.

These programs have been previously mentioned:

NetLaunch - XP version shareware?
Free Agent - crippleware?
Trillian - nagware?
Outlook Express - not Freeware?

Comments?

Susan

jo · Oct 2, 2004

Susan said:
Free Agent - crippleware?

FA, as currently packed, meets most definitions of crippleware.

jo · Oct 2, 2004

Susan said:
Outlook Express - not Freeware?

Of course it isn't.

Even if it was, it is a ridiculous candidate for the PL list

Bjorn Simonsen · Oct 2, 2004

jo wrote in said:
FA, as currently packed, meets most definitions of crippleware.

Agree, given that nothing have changed about it since
I commented on this last year:
<http://google.com/groups?&[email protected]>

All the best,
Bjorn Simonsen

Bjorn Simonsen · Oct 2, 2004

jo wrote in said:
Of course it isn't.

I'm not so sure. It is available for free as a separate download,
isn't it? <http://www.tucows.com/preview/194179.html>

On the other hand: Say I run some Windows emulator under Linux...can I
then download and run OE on my system, or do I need a Widows licence
to use it? Not sure. If I do need a Widows license to legally use it
then I would conclude OE not free.

Even if it was, it is a ridiculous candidate for the PL list

No argument from me on that

All the best,
Bjorn Simonsen

jo · Oct 2, 2004

Bjorn said:
I'm not so sure. It is available for free as a separate download,
isn't it? <http://www.tucows.com/preview/194179.html>

Has anyone ever met anyone who has downloaded it?

Ben Cooper · Oct 2, 2004

jo said:
Of course it isn't.

I consider it to be freeware.

Even if it was, it is a ridiculous candidate for the PL list

I've tried every freeware email and news client that's available (for a
Windows OS) and I still think OE is the best.
IOW, I think it's Pricelessware.

badgolferman · Oct 2, 2004

Outlook Express - not Freeware?

I consider it to be freeware.

I've tried every freeware email and news client that's available (for
a Windows OS) and I still think OE is the best.
IOW, I think it's Pricelessware.

--

Wow, you're about the only other one around here that agrees with me on
this. Now you must be prepared to be scoffed at by the highbrows.

Ben Cooper · Oct 2, 2004

badgolferman said:
Wow, you're about the only other one around here that agrees with me
on this. Now you must be prepared to be scoffed at by the highbrows.

Yes, this is an unpopular opinion when compared to the opinions of some
of acf's more vocal participants. Yet, it did make to last year's PW
list. I happen to think that honor was deserved and was glad to see it
happen.

badgolferman · Oct 2, 2004

Wow, you're about the only other one around here that agrees with me

Yes, this is an unpopular opinion when compared to the opinions of
some of acf's more vocal participants. Yet, it did make to last
year's PW list. I happen to think that honor was deserved and was
glad to see it happen.

--

Your opinion would be appreciated in the thread titled "Comparison of Mail
Clients".

Ben Cooper · Oct 2, 2004

badgolferman said:
Your opinion would be appreciated in the thread titled "Comparison of
Mail Clients".

Perhaps. Unfortunately, I didn't keep any detailed notes as to how one
program specifically compares to another.

loki · Oct 2, 2004

It happens that jo formulated :

Has anyone ever met anyone who has downloaded it?

lol

Why would someone want to?

loki · Oct 2, 2004

Ben Cooper explained on 10/1/2004 :

Yes, this is an unpopular opinion when compared to the opinions of some of
acf's more vocal participants. Yet, it did make to last year's PW list. I
happen to think that honor was deserved and was glad to see it happen.

If you like a non developed, swiss cheesie (full of hole/typical) MS
product.

I'd rather have a fresh product that is in continual developement,
with users input as part of the developement process.

Does MS listen to you?

omega · Oct 2, 2004

loki said:
It happens that jo formulated :

lol

Why would someone want to?

Maybe they do it when the icon on their desktop that says EMAIL
has gone missing?

____________
(or however the OE icon says(?) The Internet, Discussions, etc, haven't
kept up with the how msft is devising that specifically these days)

Ben Cooper · Oct 2, 2004

omega said:
Maybe they do it when the icon on their desktop that says EMAIL
has gone missing?

____________
(or however the OE icon says(?) The Internet, Discussions, etc,
haven't kept up with the how msft is devising that specifically these
days)

What's your point (besides the one at the top of your head)?

Susan Bugher · Oct 2, 2004

Susan said:
Outlook Express - not Freeware?

and

Outlook Express - Crippleware?

You have to download Internet Ezplorer to get Outlook Express.

and most of the download is IE. . .

Susan

B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson · Oct 2, 2004

[Snip]
On the other hand: Say I run some Windows emulator under Linux...can I
then download and run OE on my system, or do I need a Widows licence
to use it? Not sure. If I do need a Widows license to legally use it
then I would conclude OE not free.

MS regards all components of IE as part of the operating system. They
had been sued on giving away the IE for free as an accompanied program
to Win9x (when they started to conquer Netscape). From this time on
they stated IE to be an essential part of the OS. Although they created
a (IMHO) better help system with *.mvb (Multimedia Viewer Book) only a
few months earlier, they switched to the Html based *.chm to cement the
'need' of the IE engine. (And that's only one out of many more-the-less
ridiculous cases of interweaving IE with the OS.)

If you read the EULA for every kind of IE downloads (full, components,
service packs, and so on) you'll always read the following:

| NOTE: IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A VALID EULA FOR ANY "OS PRODUCT" (INCLUDING,
| WITHOUT LIMITATION, MICROSOFT WINDOWS 98, MICROSOFT WINDOWS NT 4.0,
| MICROSOFT WINDOWS 2000, MICROSOFT MILLENNIUM EDITION, MICROSOFT WINDOWS
| XP, OR ANY OTHER MICROSOFT OPERATING SYSTEM THAT IS A SUCCESSOR TO ANY
| OF THE FOREGOING OPERATING SYSTEMS) YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO INSTALL,
| COPY, OR OTHERWISE USE THE OS COMPONENTS AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER
| THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA.

Hence: It is *no freeware*.

The license for Mac is a bit different:

| Microsoft grants you the right to install and use copies of the SOFTWARE
| PRODUCT on your computers running validly licensed copies of the
| operating system for which the SOFTWARE PRODUCT was designed (e.g.,
| Windows(r) 95; Windows NT(r), Windows 3.x, Macintosh, etc.).

Although the statement itself is silly, it makes this version freeware
on Mac. (Notwithstanding the fact that it still can't be used on a Mac
Emulator - IMHO.)

No argument from me on that

Agreed. ;-)

BeAr

Bjorn Simonsen · Oct 2, 2004

Bjorn Simonsen wrote in said:
On the other hand: Say I run some Windows emulator under Linux...can I
then download and run OE on my system, or do I need a Widows licence
to use it? Not sure. If I do need a Widows license to legally use it
then I would conclude OE not free.

My Win2k EULA reads:

"* Additional Software. Any SOFTWARE PRODUCT provided to you by
Manufacturer, MS or Microsoft Corporation which updates
or supplements the original SOFTWARE PRODUCT is
governed by this EULA unless alternative terms are
provided with such updates or supplements."

I have not found any separate EULA for IE and OE. So AFAIK I can tell,
OE can only be considered free if you have a valid Windows license.
One might argue against this, claiming since all or most of the
Pricelessware programs requires windows, OE is no different than other
free software here. But it is. If I use OE without a valid Windows
license, I violate the Windows licence. If use any other 3. party
software, I do not violate *their* licence by not having a valid
Windows license.

All the best
Bjorn Simonsen

Bjorn Simonsen · Oct 2, 2004

B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson wrote in

Hence: It is *no freeware*.

Thanks for the follow-up. Downloaded your post just as I uploaded my
own <[email protected]>.

All the best
Bjorn Simonsen

jo · Oct 2, 2004

Susan said:
and

Outlook Express - Crippleware?

You have to download Internet Ezplorer to get Outlook Express.

and most of the download is IE. . .

Hmmm... wouldn't that make it 'piggy-back ware'?

Or something.

[PL] PL2005 WARE BALLOT	54	Nov 1, 2004
[PL] PL 2006 Ware Ballot	30	Mar 17, 2006
[PL] PL2006 Ware Issues	62	Sep 15, 2005
[PL] PL2005 General Discussion	174	Oct 1, 2004
[PL] Revised Pricelessware Review Procedures	64	Jul 31, 2004
[PL] PL2006 proposed timetable and rules	3	Sep 1, 2005
[PL] 2004 Removals	76	Nov 11, 2003
[PL] 2004 VOTE - ALTERNATE BALLOT: Acceptable/Unacceptable Programs	35	Dec 3, 2003

[PL] PL2005 Ware Issues

Susan Bugher

jo

jo

Bjorn Simonsen

Bjorn Simonsen

jo

Ben Cooper

badgolferman

Ben Cooper

badgolferman

Ben Cooper

loki

loki

omega

Ben Cooper

Susan Bugher

B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson

Bjorn Simonsen

Bjorn Simonsen

jo

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