To badly go where no OS has gone before.....

[Dale]

The single largest class of infectors for spyware and adware have been
installed completely intentionally by the users. They were too stupid to
make the decision, but they made the decision. They installed Napster,
Kazaa, and a dozen other such file sharing applications that were full of
spyware, adware, and outright Trojan and virus files.

No security implementation can keep a stupid user from doing something
stupid unless you just don't let them use their PC. People like that need
one of those MSN keyboards for the TV so they can surf the net and do email
on the TV with no local storage of anything.

Dale

 

[Gordon]

And where are those Linux repositories?

Go to the forum for your particular Distro.

 

[Dale]

But I thought there were common Linux download sites that had everything.
Having to go to the forum for my particular distribution is no different
from going to Microsoft for Windows.

Dale

 

[arachnid]

And where are those Linux repositories?

Ubuntu's US repository: http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/

However that's not going to help you because Linux repositories are
just ftp sites. They're not designed to be browsed directly. Distro
users browse categories and descriptions using the installer software, not
by looking at the file area.

I am still looking for a Linux package to replace WMP as my primary
media player. I use WMP controlled via COM in an application I wrote
myself for listening to music and I use Media Center for playing DVDs
both on the PC and on my television. MPlayer doesn't meet my needs. So
where can I find a Linux media player that can play DVDs, audio, and can
be controlled externally so that I can write my own shell around it if I
don't like the one that comes with it? Oh, and since this whole thread
has recently revolved around high definition media played through
digital outputs, where is the Linux media player that will do that?

Try comp.os.linux.advocacy, or ask in the appropriate newsgroup for
your distro of choice.

While this post may sound like an argument, it is really not.

Now where would someone get the idea you're just trolling?

 

[Dale]

I really am not trolling - all you Ubuntu/Linux proponents had me sold that
it might be the right thing to do for my media - at least enough so that I
wanted to seriously look and check it out. But now I am beginning to get
the idea that it is just easier to use Windows. Windows isn't perfect but,
like I said, I don't want to have to "work" at this for my home PC, my home
network, or my home multimedia.

No, I am not trolling but I am finding out that all your promises about
Linux/Ubuntu just aren't holding water.

Dale

 

[arachnid]

The single largest class of infectors for spyware and adware have been
installed completely intentionally by the users.

You mean, Windows?

They were too stupid to make the decision, but they made the decision.
They installed Napster, Kazaa, and a dozen other such file sharing
applications that were full of spyware, adware, and outright Trojan and
virus files.

No security implementation can keep a stupid user from doing something
stupid unless you just don't let them use their PC.

"You can make something foolproof, but you can't make it damn fool
proof"

"Make something idiot proof, and the world will produce a better
idiot"

People like that need one of those MSN keyboards for the TV so they can
surf the net and do email on the TV with no local storage of anything.

Yep.

 

[DCR]

| On Mon, 01 Jan 2007 12:36:50 -0600, Dale wrote:
| "Make something idiot proof, and the world will produce a better idiot"

LOL
Never heard that one before. That's terriffic!
May I quote you?

DCR

 

[arachnid]

I really am not trolling

Uh huh.

- all you Ubuntu/Linux proponents had me sold that it might be the right
thing to do for my media - at least enough so that I wanted to seriously
look and check it out. But now I am beginning to get the idea that it
is just easier to use Windows. Windows isn't perfect but, like I said,
I don't want to have to "work" at this for my home PC, my home network,
or my home multimedia.

I'd suggest what I use but you've already ruled them out as not doing what
you want. However, Linux has bunches of media players. If you were serious
and not just trolling, you'd be asking in a Linux newsgroup where a
broader range of multimedia users hang out.

No, I am not trolling but I am finding out that all your promises about
Linux/Ubuntu just aren't holding water.

What promises have I made about Ubuntu that aren't holding water?

 

[Chris]

I think this entire raving ranting post is a bit funny.
Can someone please explain how to fix "Stupid"?
Other than napalm in the gene pool etc...

Lets put this whole rant into perspective;
Windows vs. Linux...... (similar to discussing science vs. religion...pun intended)
Or even on a simpler point, a media player for potentially pirated content?
Why not a Tivo type software to handle these issues?
With all due respect hasn't congress literally been stomping all over MS enough for circumstantial evidence of monopoly since 95'?
What does an OS try to accomplish;

1.. Ease of use
2.. Diversity in hardware availability
3.. Software availability
4.. Plug and play
5.. Development capability
6.. Cultural & Language diversity
7.. Usage diversity
8.. Rights management
9.. Scalability
10.. Compatibility
11.. Protection
12.. Freedom
13.. Human Rights
14.. Security
The more open to diversity anything is the less secure it is.
So who are the mental giants ignoring this very parochial philosophical fact of reality?

May I suggest several thousand links to proverbs?

It all boils down to Freeware and software or media rights infringement being the main source of security failures doesn't it?

BTW... I have been building my own systems for years since 96'. AMD , Intel, 3DFX, ATI, NVIDIA, Creative, Realtek, Logitech, IBM, Microsoft, Suse, Red Hat, etc.. to infinity and back again.
Over the entire course, my latest purchase was an HP Slimline s7520n.
I fail to see how HP has failed as a manufacturer when actually it is about as close to a console PC as I have seen for Windows to date for around $500.00
Oh yeah, and it is dreaded Vista compatible...lol
The only thing I am missing is a TV tuner card which is pretty cheap.

Hopefully by the time MS has gotten thru this full release beta phase, listened to public feedback of what to offer, we can eventually end up with an embedded OS sold with the Motherboard and thus more secure from viruses as well as Trojans. But then again we are back to wailing and whining in congress of monopolizing the general public by popular demand.....

The single largest class of infectors for spyware and adware have been
installed completely intentionally by the users.

You mean, Windows?

They were too stupid to make the decision, but they made the decision.
They installed Napster, Kazaa, and a dozen other such file sharing
applications that were full of spyware, adware, and outright Trojan and
virus files.

No security implementation can keep a stupid user from doing something
stupid unless you just don't let them use their PC.

"You can make something foolproof, but you can't make it damn fool
proof"

"Make something idiot proof, and the world will produce a better
idiot"

People like that need one of those MSN keyboards for the TV so they can
surf the net and do email on the TV with no local storage of anything.

Yep.

 

[Dale]

Comments inline.

Dale

Uh huh.

Glad you agree.

I'd suggest what I use but you've already ruled them out as not doing what
you want. However, Linux has bunches of media players. If you were serious
and not just trolling, you'd be asking in a Linux newsgroup where a
broader range of multimedia users hang out.

Actually, I am trying to find a way to post to those newsgroups. I don't
have access to a news server other than msnews.microsoft.com. I'm working
on setting up a google groups account but the site is having problems. When
it is resolved I will try those newsgroups. But the reason I asked here is
because it is here where all these so-called Ubuntu experts are saying it is
so easy. If it is so easy, then you should have the answers.

As it is, a search of Linux.org displays 100 out of 115 results for
Multimedia/MP3 software. I didnt' find any of those, out of the dozens I
have looked at so far, that is anywhere close to a full featured multimedia
application. All I find are a whole bunch of small utilities that perform a
single function. In order to have the functionality provided by any recent
version of iTunes or Windows Media Player, I will have to test and download
several versions of several different applications, hoping in the end that
all the pieces play well together.

I keep looking but the more I look the more disappointed I am.

What promises have I made about Ubuntu that aren't holding water?

I realized right after I sent that post that "all your promises" should have
been "all the promises".

"The" promises that haven't held water are:

1. Single download repositories for software for all versions of Linux.
2. Single click download and installation of software.
3. Ease of finding free software that is as good as, or better than,
what is available for Windows.

 

[Dale]

Huh?

Dale

I think this entire raving ranting post is a bit funny.
Can someone please explain how to fix "Stupid"?
Other than napalm in the gene pool etc...

Lets put this whole rant into perspective;
Windows vs. Linux...... (similar to discussing science vs. religion...pun
intended)
Or even on a simpler point, a media player for potentially pirated content?
Why not a Tivo type software to handle these issues?
With all due respect hasn't congress literally been stomping all over MS
enough for circumstantial evidence of monopoly since 95'?
What does an OS try to accomplish;

Ease of use
Diversity in hardware availability
Software availability
Plug and play
Development capability
Cultural & Language diversity
Usage diversity
Rights management
Scalability
Compatibility
Protection
Freedom
Human Rights
Security
The more open to diversity anything is the less secure it is.
So who are the mental giants ignoring this very parochial philosophical fact
of reality?

May I suggest several thousand links to proverbs?

It all boils down to Freeware and software or media rights infringement
being the main source of security failures doesn't it?

BTW... I have been building my own systems for years since 96'. AMD , Intel,
3DFX, ATI, NVIDIA, Creative, Realtek, Logitech, IBM, Microsoft, Suse, Red
Hat, etc.. to infinity and back again.
Over the entire course, my latest purchase was an HP Slimline s7520n.
I fail to see how HP has failed as a manufacturer when actually it is about
as close to a console PC as I have seen for Windows to date for around
$500.00
Oh yeah, and it is dreaded Vista compatible...lol
The only thing I am missing is a TV tuner card which is pretty cheap.

Hopefully by the time MS has gotten thru this full release beta phase,
listened to public feedback of what to offer, we can eventually end up with
an embedded OS sold with the Motherboard and thus more secure from viruses
as well as Trojans. But then again we are back to wailing and whining in
congress of monopolizing the general public by popular demand.....

The single largest class of infectors for spyware and adware have been
installed completely intentionally by the users.

You mean, Windows?

They were too stupid to make the decision, but they made the decision.
They installed Napster, Kazaa, and a dozen other such file sharing
applications that were full of spyware, adware, and outright Trojan and
virus files.

No security implementation can keep a stupid user from doing something
stupid unless you just don't let them use their PC.

"You can make something foolproof, but you can't make it damn fool
proof"

"Make something idiot proof, and the world will produce a better
idiot"

People like that need one of those MSN keyboards for the TV so they can
surf the net and do email on the TV with no local storage of anything.

Yep.

 

[arachnid]

Actually, I am trying to find a way to post to those newsgroups. I don't
have access to a news server other than msnews.microsoft.com. I'm working
on setting up a google groups account but the site is having problems.
When it is resolved I will try those newsgroups.

NNTP-Posting-Host: 70-41-72-69.cust.wildblue.net 70.41.72.69

There's no msnews in your path, either.

 

[Dale]

Well, aren't you cute. *patting you on the head*.

I am using Windows Mail to post and in my server settings I have
msnews.microsoft.com. I have no idea what is happening to it after it
leaves here but I can't put 70-41-72-69.cust.wildblue.net in my server box,
can I? That's the IP address of MY computer.

I called your bluff about Linux and Ubuntu - not to prove you right but in
the hope that you were right. You weren't. Don't take it so badly.

Dale

 

[Dale]

One of the biggest complaints I have with Vista is that WMP 11 deletes my
album art and replaces it with its own, regardless of whether its version is
wrong. In searching Ubuntu forums for alternative media players based on
the hype in this thread, I found a message where Amarok deletes the users
album art - though not quite as blatantly as WMP 11 does.

Linux/Ubuntu/Amarok may not have the same headaches as Windows/WMP 11; they
just have a different set of headaches.

Dale

 

[arachnid]

Well, aren't you cute. *patting you on the head*.

I am using Windows Mail to post and in my server settings I have
msnews.microsoft.com. I have no idea what is happening to it after it
leaves here

I don't either, but it's awfully strange that the news server you claim to
be posting from doesn't appear in your path.

but I can't put 70-41-72-69.cust.wildblue.net in my server
box, can I? That's the IP address of MY computer.

Most web-based news providers will use their own domain in the
NNTP-Posting-Host field, usually combined with the poster's IP. The
significant thing was not what the field contained, but that it didn't
contain msnews.microsoft.com. Of course that's meaningless if you're not
posting via the web, but I didn't know whether that was the case.

But let's give you the benefit of the doubt. If Google News isn't
working, try a different Google server. For example, start at
http://www.google.co.uk.

Still doesn't work? Search for a free news server here:

<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=+usenet++"free+news+providers"&btnG=Google+Search>

You may well find one that'll also let you post to the text groups if you
register. But if not, just use a mail2news gateway for posting.

I've been without a commercial news provider many a time yet have
always found a way to read and post to my usual Usenet newsgroups.

I called your bluff about Linux and Ubuntu

No, you challenged me to produce the name of an application meeting
some vague set of requirements that I'd earlier seen to change whenever
someone came up with a suggestion. I'm not going to play that game. You
can dig through application specifications as well as I can and you have a
much better idea of exactly what you're looking for, so do it yourself or
ask in a Linux newsgroup with greater participation as has already been
suggested by several of us.

 

[Dale]

xine looks like a good starting point for a media player. Since I had to
write my own shell for WMP because its UI sucks so bad, I don't object to
using xine and writing a shell for it as well. Now if only it played hi-def
media out hi-def ports - the main reason for moving from WMP and Vista for
audio. It doesn't look like it but I am still searching.

Dale

 

[arachnid]

One of the biggest complaints I have with Vista is that WMP 11 deletes my
album art and replaces it with its own, regardless of whether its version
is wrong. In searching Ubuntu forums for alternative media players based
on the hype in this thread, I found a message where Amarok deletes the
users album art - though not quite as blatantly as WMP 11 does.

The difference is that with Linux you get the source code. If you aren't a
programmer, you may well be able to find someone in the Linux groups who
can generate a patch for you. Or you might even email the Amarok
developers directly and see if they'll add what you need.

Linux/Ubuntu/Amarok may not have the same headaches as Windows/WMP 11;
they just have a different set of headaches.

All operating systems come with their own brand of headaches. However,
because of its flexibility and open source code, I find Linux headaches to
be easier to cure than Windows headaches.

 

[CBFalconer]

NNTP-Posting-Host: 70-41-72-69.cust.wildblue.net 70.41.72.69

There's no msnews in your path, either.

Piggybacking, since the earlier messages never showed up here.

Try teranews.com for a free access to newsgroups. It will involve
a one-time registration charge of about 4 dollars.

 

[Dale]

Well, you are definitely right about one thing and that may be the strongest
argument you have made for Linux to date. The Windows Media Player product
team has no interest, as in none, nada, zip, zilch interest, in hearing any
customer feedback on WMP 11. With Linux, you can actually communicate with
the people writing the code. That alone is almost worth switching for home
use since 90% of what I do on my home PCs is media related.

Dale

 

[arachnid]

xine looks like a good starting point for a media player. Since I had to
write my own shell for WMP because its UI sucks so bad, I don't object to
using xine and writing a shell for it as well. Now if only it played
hi-def media out hi-def ports - the main reason for moving from WMP and
Vista for audio. It doesn't look like it but I am still searching.

I'm not up to speed on all that hi-def stuff but this may have a few
useful tidbits:

http://www.linuxis.us/linux/media/howto/linux-htpc/video.html