Screenshot Captor: A New Definition for Freeware

[Helen]

Thanks Dan, I needed that.

Susan

I like them too, Susan. And FWIW, I appreciate your time, energy and
talent in addition to the informative posts on this ng. When I view headers
I skip most, but read yours because: 1) time is precious, 2) the world and
this ng is too often full of nothing but junk, and last but not least, 3) your
post are worth reading (e.g, they contain information that is helpful whether
one disagrees or not, and it is usually on-topic information rather than the
blather that occurs from time to time among or between a couple or so...
just an ingredient of a ng, I suppose. Anyway, keep up the good work
and know that you are appreciated. Enclosed is a HUGE HUG and a
never-ending THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Helen

 

[Steve]

If anyone
*likes* those detailed ware descriptions please speak up. I need some
encouragement. . .

Thank you very much for your dedication!

 

[mouser]

i certainly meant no disrespect by using the term "lay people", i just
meant people who aren't experts in the field of software terminology.
people who aren't familiar with all of the different terms in susan's
glossary, and who don't follow the debates about the definitition of
freeware.

 

[mouser]

i agree there will always be people in marketing that try to take a hot
term and distort it and abuse it and use it as bait and hype. and i
also support the idea of trying to nail down the meaning of the
different terms. language also has a habit of evolving and changing as
people use it - and we don't always get to tell people what a word
means - sometimes word meanings shift over time and a fight ensues
between those who want to preserve the meaning and those who advocate
accepting the changes.. it can be a fascinating process sometimes.

i think it's important to recognize, as this thread as demonstrated -
there is no single universally accepted definition of freeware. most of
us would agree with the core principles of it refering to software that
can be used fully without paying anything, but after that it gets a
little more murky. i've stated my personal belief that
donationware/registerware (assuming users emails are not being
misused!) still should qualify as being freeware. to me they still
embody the spirit and intent of freeware. i would personally not call
adware or programs that have nag screens that can only be removed with
a payment freeware, though some might disagree.

 

[John Fitzsimons]

On 17 May 2006 03:23:46 -0700, "mouser" <[email protected]>
wrote:

in our case, the programs will never stop working.

That isn't true. If people don't re-register in six months the
programs stop working.

the idea is simply to try to remind people who really use our software
that we are working our hearts out and try to get them to visit our
site and see what we've done in the last 6 months and get them to give
a few seconds of thought to the idea of donating. if they email us and
say they know they are never going to donate then we just send them the
non-expiring key right away.

There are other ways to achieve your goals. Occasional nag screens, a
mailing list reminder, new version releases of programs etc.

< snip >

Regards, John.

--
****************************************************
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/ Oz \ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/

 

[John Fitzsimons]

On 17 May 2006 01:01:20 -0700, (e-mail address removed) wrote:

Whinging about having to make a 6 monthly visit to register as
opposed to simply saying "thanks for the software and empowering me by
giving the choice to me whether to fork out money or not" is the most
disheartening thing I've come across in a long long time.

< snip >

Then you dishearten easily. Something that only works for six months
if not re-registered isn't freeware. You can call it registerware,
demoware or whatever. But it isn't freeware. Annoyanceware may be
closer to the mark.

There is no guarantee that the site in question will even be in
existence in six months. Why install programs that may cease to
work ? Pretty silly idea IMO.

Added to that there is nothing stopping that site changing it's mind
and saying immediately "Registration now cost $xxx. We have had
freeware authors do that sort of thing in the past.

You can do whatever you like. Some of us however don't want a re-run
of these types of situations.

Regards, John.

--
****************************************************
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/ Oz \ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/

 

[f0dder]

That isn't true. If people don't re-register in six months the
programs stop working.

It won't stop working - it will just display the at-startup nag again.

There are other ways to achieve your goals. Occasional nag screens, a
mailing list reminder, new version releases of programs etc.

"Occasional nag screens"... that's what [some of] the DC programs do. One
nag at program startup. The "license" keys are just to make this nag go
away, not to make the programs functional.

 

[f0dder]

Then you dishearten easily. Something that only works for six months
if not re-registered isn't freeware. You can call it registerware,
demoware or whatever. But it isn't freeware. Annoyanceware may be
closer to the mark.

There is no guarantee that the site in question will even be in
existence in six months. Why install programs that may cease to
work ? Pretty silly idea IMO.

Added to that there is nothing stopping that site changing it's mind
and saying immediately "Registration now cost $xxx. We have had
freeware authors do that sort of thing in the past.

You can do whatever you like. Some of us however don't want a re-run
of these types of situations.

You're a bit wrong on how the things currently work. Here's a few quotes
from Mouser:

http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=631.0
"first of all, the programs will not ever stop working - so you'll never be
in a situation where a program you use suddenly stops working."

"but i am happy to state clearly that should the site ever dissapear, all
member keyfiles may be shared freely. ie if site dies, anyone may put their
legal licenses up on the web for everyone to use. the keyfiles are not
going to be tied to machine hardware or anything, so that is not going to be
an issue."


http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=875.0
"I have also said this in a couple of places, including the key file page:
If you know you are not going to donate, send me an email i will make you a
non-expiring license key."

"thanks uwe and rrtwister -
i think needing to get a new key every month would be excessive - as it is,
every 6 months might be already too annoying."

 

[Susan Bugher]

mouser wrote:

One work-around for the limited choice problem is to add "ware" notes in
the description field. I've seen that done - can't give you an example
off the top of my head.

found one:

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,23030,00.asp

<q>
Note: Although this version is free, the vendor cheerfully discloses
that it's nagware. A nagless professional version of this program
exists; that one lets you customize your lists to fit your preferences.
</q>



Susan
--
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[Susan Bugher]

Roger Johansson wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware

There is no neutral and good freeware, according to wikipedia.

We who use and like freeware ought to try to make the article better,
but I fear we have no chance against the open source fanatics who have
mangled this article into something totally misleading.

It might be worth trying an appeal to some of the linked web sites such as:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html#freeware

Maybe send them something along these lines. . .

-----------

Some "free software"/ open source advocates are actively promoting
erroneous defintions of Freeware. Please help us conteract the spread of
the kind of FUD found on this web page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware

You maintain that: "Free software is a matter of freedom, not price."

Participants in the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup maintain that Freeware
is a matter of the cost you pay (monetary and non-monetary) to use the
software. Our definition of Freeware is: "Freeware: Legally obtainable
software that you may use at no cost, monetary or otherwise, for as long
as you wish."

Freeware may or may not be open source - the terms are not mutually
exclusive. The terms "free software" and Freeware are about two
different things, Both may (or may not) apply to a given software program.

Please use ACF's ware definition of Freeware on your web pages and/or
link to ACF's ware glossary which defines "wares" in terms of monetary
and non-monetary costs.

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php

------------

Susan
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[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=875.0
"I have also said this in a couple of places, including the key
file page: If you know you are not going to donate, send me an
email i will make you a non-expiring license key."

Where is the key file page?

 

[Klaatu]

Wiki can be change very easily. It is not a very reliable source for
anything but a starting point. Why not use one of the age old
dictionaries that have an element of respectablity? Wiki recently
went through a big rigamarow about inaccurate information about a
person. Apparently there was some concern about damage to the
reputation as a result of of the inaccurate information that was
'spread around the world' so to speak. They are mere mortals and
make errors too, but not a site (at the present anyway) worth much of
anything except as a starting place for a subject one is truly and
wholly ignorant of.

While I agree with you for the most part, it was not I who brought up wiki
to begin with. And if you think it's easy to change what's on that page
describing freeware, just try it. You'll have a bunch of OSS zealots
changing it back so fast you're head will spin.

 

[Roger Johansson]

Some "free software"/ open source advocates are actively promoting
erroneous defintions of Freeware. Please help us conteract the spread of
the kind of FUD found on this web page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware

What surprises me most is how they seem so totally unaware of the real
world.

Most people are still using some version of windows, and they often use
freeware like the Opera browser. That is the real world.

I think software is first divided into the main categories freeware and
payware, that is what most people think about software, you either get
it for free or you have to pay for it.

Then there are further subdivisions of these main categories.
Freeware is divided into proprietary and open source, with further
subcategories and distinctions of each of these categories.

The term "shareware" is antiquated and should not be used at all, but
OSS advocates often use it to confuse the issue and to confuse the
terms freeware and shareware with each other.

Today we call shareware and all other commercial software "payware",
which is a better and more generally accepted term. "Commercial
software" is an alternative to "payware", but too long and less
popular. "Shareware" was a way to distribute payware before internet
became generally available and simplified distribution.

 

[Vegard Krog Petersen]

The term "shareware" is antiquated and should not be used at all, but
OSS advocates often use it to confuse the issue and to confuse the
terms freeware and shareware with each other.

Today we call shareware and all other commercial software "payware",
which is a better and more generally accepted term. "Commercial
software" is an alternative to "payware", but too long and less
popular. "Shareware" was a way to distribute payware before internet
became generally available and simplified distribution.

The term 'shareware' are alive and kicking. I think the 'Association of
Shareware Professionals' would disagree very much that the term
'shareware' is dead...

http://www.asp-shareware.org/

A try to use 'trialware' failed badly. > http://www.trialware.org/

regards from


--
Vegard Krog Petersen - Norway

http://vegard2.no -
Solitaire MahJongg guide, Sarah Michelle Gellar Solitaire,
Freeware Logo & symbol, Halma & Chinese Checkers,
Pachisi & Ludo, Freeware Solitaire, My fishy site (fishing
games), a.c.f.g information, Fredrikshald Havfiskeklubb
18+ sites: Firefoxy, Adult Solitaire, Fishy Pictures,
Sexy Chess, Sexy Librarians, Sexy Football
---------------------------------------------------------

 

[Susan Bugher]

The term 'shareware' are alive and kicking. I think the 'Association of
Shareware Professionals' would disagree very much that the term
'shareware' is dead...

http://www.asp-shareware.org/

Agree.

re Freeware and the definition thereof. . .

After a little Googling it appears that most definitions of Freeware are
either lame or *very* lame (Wikipedia). . .

I just made a few changes in the ACF/PL web pages that should result in
a higher placement on the search engines when people search for
"freeware glossary" or "freeware definition".

Additional links to the pricelesswarehome.org web site and the ware
glossary web page would also help - if you haven't linked please
consider doing so.

FWIW. . .

freeware glossary - the number one spot is currently held by:
http://www.sharpened.net/glossary/definition.php?freeware

"Like shareware, freeware is software you can download, pass around, and
distribute without any initial payment. However, the great part about
freeware is that you never have to pay for it. No 30 day limit, no demo
versions, no disabled features -- it's totally free. Things like minor
program updates and small games are commonly distributed as freeware.
Though freeware does not cost anything, it is still copyrighted, so
other people can't market the software as their own."

freeware glossary - the number one spot is currently held by:
<http://www.google.com/search?num=10...Freeware&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title>

The above is a links page - "Definitions of Freeware on the Web"

the first link's definition:
"Freeware
Software that is available free of charge for personal use."

Susan
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[thunder7]

Speaking of "Freeware" found this page while surfing.
http://www.gnu.org/

 

[thunder7]

Almost 12 years ago I had a old 486 PC with 8mb of ram and no Programs.
A friend told me of freeware. I have been hooked ever since.

(Long story shortend.)
I have a very painfull lower back all lot of the pain killers just do
not work on me, I spend 95% of my time awake and surfing.
I exist on a goverment program called Disability Income because I can
not walk very far. And the searing pain makes it tough to do a lot of
things.

Except laying down, sitting if I do not move around a lot.Are about all
i can do without to much pain.

I do not have a lot of money, If I pay rent buy food I am doing well.
When I have a chance which is not offten, I support a few sites
artwanted.com, artuproar.com, and now donationcoder.com.
Im not a rich man by far,...

But these people code these programs for use and that takes them away
from the spouse, children. And many other thing they could be doing.
Too code programs for us they think we will like.
They have bills just like you and I.

I usually can not afford more $ 5.00
But it is worth it becaue I helping them make that program the best it
can be.

Just think how Photoshop would be if they asked you for a donation,
rather than selling you the program.
$10.00 free updates the program is your's.

hmmm,makes one think hmmm,...
How many more would have Photoshop than they have righ now.

Anyway just a though

 

[Eugene Esterly III]

Wiki can be change very easily. It is not a very reliable source for
anything but a starting point. Why not use one of the age old dictionaries
that have an element of respectablity? Wiki recently went through a
big rigamarow about inaccurate information about a person. Apparently
there was some concern about damage to the reputation as a result of
of the inaccurate information that was 'spread around the world' so to
speak. They are mere mortals and make errors too, but not a site
(at the present anyway) worth much of anything except as a starting
place for a subject one is truly and wholly ignorant of.

I agree about Wikipedia. It is a good site but because it is open to
everyone, anyone can change the articles. In fact, Wikipedia had to
lock the article on Jack Thompson (the lawyer who is after violent
videogames) & I'm guessing it's because he complained.

 

[Joerg Toellner]

Hi thunder7,

i do not know to whom you've talked/written. But it can't surely NOT have
been mouser.

mouser is one of the most kind, polite and helpful person on the internet. I
am sure and know it from my own experience, that he takes EVERY mail and
notice (in IRC as well as in forum or PM) very serious and handle it asap
and with patient until the problem is solved (if it can).

To all:
For the term Freeware. Maybe you can talk about what Freeware is or how it
is defined. But its tedious IMHO. For me as a user of a program it makes no
difference. If a useful and good program cost me nothing more than going 2
times in a whole year for 2 minutes to a website and then have the program
forever and i have to pay nothing else it's freeware in MY personal opinion.

DC never uses your registration data for earning money or sell it to others.
I am a member for about 1 year now and i never received sth. else at the
DC-Newsletter twice a month - which i really like to recieve and that i can
quit if i want.

If you are not glad with the "hoops of DonationCoder" maybe their programs
are not for you or you can live with the nagscreen (what is so horrible to
do one click more? It costs you nothing also! - TskTsk!). Go and look
somewhere else if you find an alternative with less "hoops" and same
quality. If you find one - Lucky guy! But please don't blame s.o. that is so
kind to invest time (and money of his own) to endow you a useful program for
nothing than for 4 minutes of your precious time in one year.

And i advice you: Go to DC-Website and try it out. You'll see, you don't
have to go through hoops for the keys, but you get a lot of tipps,
discounts, good discussions, help and many many more for (again) nothing.

I am not endoresed somehow with the DC-Website. I am only a regular member
of the community. I write this post not because i was said so by somehow and
i get nothing as a reward for writing this. It's my real and true opinion.

Just my 2ct.
JoTo

 

[f0dder]

Where is the key file page?

Go to http://donationcoder.com , click "software", scroll down and click
"License key download page". You'll end up at http://donationcoder.com/Keys/
..