Program similar to FindRun Robot

[mouser]

John is correct in what he said. It needs to be stated before you sign

up for the forums that the key is only valid for a certain time period
unless you donate. Not after you sign up, before.

I agree with this; I can see that going through the efforts of signing
up at the forum and then discovering that you have to return to the
page in 6 months to grab a new license key could be frustrating.


[EDIT] - I was just about to make a post quoting from the key file page
(http://www.donationcoder.com/Keys/index.php) talking about the 6 month
renewal thing which my memory was, was very clearly stated. I visited
the page now that new visitors see the only text I see only an oblique
reference that "If you do decide to become a Donating Member of the
site you will receive a single universal license key that is guaranteed
to work on all current and future DonationCoder.com applications,
including the latest beta versions, and never expires. "

I agree that this is not nearly enough - and I concede completely the
point that that page is incomplete and confusing and could lead to some
hard feelings after signing up and only then reading that you need to
come back to the page to get a new key in 6 months.

I am updating it now to say what the page says to people who are
already signed up at our forum, and will post a quick reply when it has
been updated.

 

[Saxman]

hehe, i can see there are non-believers here

Let me help put this in a little perspective.

Why not charge $15 dollars for the program and be done with the keys or
maybe 30 day free trial?

 

[No I'm Spartacus]

I agree with this; I can see that going through the efforts of signing
up at the forum and then discovering that you have to return to the
page in 6 months to grab a new license key could be frustrating.


[EDIT] - I was just about to make a post quoting from the key file page
(http://www.donationcoder.com/Keys/index.php) talking about the 6 month
renewal thing which my memory was, was very clearly stated. I visited
the page now that new visitors see the only text I see only an oblique
reference that "If you do decide to become a Donating Member of the
site you will receive a single universal license key that is guaranteed
to work on all current and future DonationCoder.com applications,
including the latest beta versions, and never expires. "

I agree that this is not nearly enough - and I concede completely the
point that that page is incomplete and confusing and could lead to some
hard feelings after signing up and only then reading that you need to
come back to the page to get a new key in 6 months.

I am updating it now to say what the page says to people who are
already signed up at our forum, and will post a quick reply when it has
been updated.

Thank you mouser. As I mentioned, that was my main gripe in the first
place. Not that you had made it donationware/shareware (they are the
same thing to me) in the first place - that was your choice after all
- but that it was only stated that the key was time expired after you
had already signed up to your forums. If you had already had this
little fact on the 'pre-signup' page, it wouldn't have bothered me. I
would have just thought "ok, that's not freeware, I will go look
elsewhere" - instead, I had to reset some of the settings on my
browser (turn on cookie acceptance for example), fill in your forums
signup form, log into my Yahoo webmail account (which is only used for
signup's like this - it makes a nice recepticle for all the spam email
that you start getting when you sign up for a download or register for
a forum - for which I had to disable my HOSTS file settings by the way
as my HOSTS is locked down too well for Yahoo to function without
disabling it), go into the email your site had sent, go to the 'yes,
confirm this registration' link, then go back to your website, log
into the forums (as the key generator only works when you have a
concurrent login to the forums), go back to the key signup page to
generate my key...only to find it was only valid for 180 days! I was
pretty angry after all this. I didn't bother installing FindRun or
using the key once the key generator told me it was time limited - I'm
only interested in true freeware. If you had mentioned this before the
signup, I could have avoided all this.

 

[Saxman]

hehe, i can see there are non-believers here

Let me help put this in a little perspective.

I think you need to make it explicitly clear on your website and upon
installation that one requires a donation or a renewable key.

Nothing wrong with the software, but I think you are trying to pull the
wool over some peoples eyes.

Your program Screenshot Captor was advertised as freeware on Softpedia
yesterday. It should be advertised as donationware as you describe, then
everybody knows what situation they are in.

 

[mouser]

fair enough.

the page has been updated, it now says near the top of the page this:
"Until you become a donating member of our site your license key will
stop working after 6 months, at which point you will have to return to
this page to grab a new license key which will extend the use of the
program another 6 months, etc. You can do this indefinitely. If your
license expires and you are sure that you do not want to donate to our
site, send us an email explaining why you can't or won't donate and we
will send you a permanent non-expiring license."

Again, my apologies for the confusion - I do agree that it is important
that it should have always stated this information before telling
people to go through the trouble of signing up at the forum; it's a big
website and the new license key stuff as been up for only 4 months or
so and as I've said before we're still working out the best way to do
everything, and explain everything It does no good for us to have
people angry after signing up at the forum.

 

[mouser]

most software listing sites do not have a "donationware" category;
when they do, this is what we file under.

 

[No I'm Spartacus]

I think you need to make it explicitly clear on your website and upon
installation that one requires a donation or a renewable key.

Nothing wrong with the software, but I think you are trying to pull the
wool over some peoples eyes.

Your program Screenshot Captor was advertised as freeware on Softpedia
yesterday. It should be advertised as donationware as you describe, then
everybody knows what situation they are in.

You've got it totally correct with those statements Saxman. I'm not
sure that mouser has quite understood it yet, but I think he will
eventually understand that the problem was not that he went
'donationware' with his software, but that until you actually
registered on his website, it was not mentioned as such - instead, it
was advertised as freeware on the pre-signup page, something it was
not. Sounds like Softpedia hasn't verified whether Screenshot Captor
was freeware or not - maybe they just took the description off the
'pre-signup' program key page (where it makes no mention of any time
limitations), instead of registering a key for themselves, whereupon
they would have noticed that the key was time limited unless you
donated.

 

[Vic Dura]

Come to think of it, who's to say that the definition of "freeware"
adopted by this group is in itself unassailable holy writ?

There is not definition "adopted" by the group; only a *very* loose
and tenuous general agreement to which there are more exceptions than
not. Effectively common-sense is what prevails.

 

[Vic Dura]

but
they still don't have to pay anything, and payment's what I take to be the
prime criterion for shareware or commercial software.

Well said.

 

[Klaatu]

most software listing sites do not have a "donationware" category;
when they do, this is what we file under.

Then why do you continue to post in a freeware newsgroup? Clearly your site
contains no freeware whatsoever, so please go away.

 

[Hengist_Ludd]

But you can re-start it by getting a new *free* 6-month key by going back
to the site and doing over. You don't have to pay money.

 

[Hengist_Ludd]

I forgot this one, from Mike Lin;

http://www.mlin.net/MCL.shtml

=== QUOTE ===
MCL is a command line utility that allows you to run programs quickly and
easily by typing the commands. Why is this useful? If you...

* ...are a really fast typer, and tired of Windows' inefficiency.
* ...are an old UNIX junkie, and used to the command line way of doing
things
* ...hate the consistently idiot-proof way Windows works

then MCL is for you!

MCL is 100% freeware! It was written in C++ by Mike Lin. It is not
dependent on VB, MFC, or any other runtime DLLs. It has low memory usage,
small download size, and high performance. Some of its nifty features
include:

* AutoComplete - finishes your commands for you
* Rollup - compresses the window in a little bar, saving you screen
space
* Command history - remembers up to 100 of your previously used
commands
* Hotkey - One key combination anywhere in Windows and MCL is
activated
* Macros - special commands that let you quickly execute one or more
other commands
* Ability to execute not only programs, but DOS commands, Explorer,
and URLs.
* Plug-ins - allows any developer to extend MCL's capabilities

MCL was designed from the ground up to be convenient, out of the way, and
easy to use. It can make using Windows a much less annoying experience!
Download MCL

So, you've listened to all my ranting and raving, and now you wanna take
the dive, huh? Well, be my guest. Be sure to read through the help file,
because many of MCL's features are not immediately obvious.

=== END QUOTE ===

Not sure it will do what you want. It's free, but he has a PayPal button
if you feel *moved to donate* ))

 

[Saxman]

But you can re-start it by getting a new *free* 6-month key by going back
to the site and doing over. You don't have to pay money.

That is not how my freeware works on my computer. The said software nags
you until you pay up. Can you not see that?

 

[Azzman]

That is not how my freeware works on my computer. The said software
nags you until you pay up. Can you not see that?

Or do as I did:
email the author, tell him you don't want to donate and get a non-expiring
key.

 

[Peter Seiler]

No I'm Spartacus - 09.12.2005 14:00 :

At least now you have admitted that statement was incorrect. A program
that expires like this can't be called freeware I'm afraid.
--

Regards,

Spartacus

At least...a recommendation:

please, do a RFC-conform SIG-delimiter "-- " (DashDashSpace) instead of
"--" without space after the dashes. With your "--" without the Space
your SIG comes false as a quoting as you can see above :-(

THX for your kind understanding.

 

[mouser]

most software listing sites do not have a "donationware" category;

Then why do you continue to post in a freeware newsgroup? Clearly your site
contains no freeware whatsoever, so please go away

well, i've said that i personally consider the software on our site
that requires you to either email us for a non-expiring key, or else
come back every 6 months for a new freeware license key (which removes
all nags), to be freeware (or donationware if you prefer).

however, even if you don't agree with me, there are TONS more programs
on our site which are original pure freeware programs without nags,
expiration, etc., including some open source and cross platform
software:

http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/index.html

the Skrommel and Coding Snacks section in particular are filled with
freeware that was written on demand based on user requests in the
coding snacks section of our forum, and none of these programs expire,
nag, or use license keys.

 

[Klaatu]

well, i've said that i personally consider the software on our site
that requires you to either email us for a non-expiring key, or else
come back every 6 months for a new freeware license key (which removes
all nags), to be freeware (or donationware if you prefer).

I prefer nagware, since that's what it does. Concensus here has concluded
that nagware (or donationware as you obviously prefer) is not freeware.

however, even if you don't agree with me, there are TONS more programs
on our site which are original pure freeware programs without nags,
expiration, etc., including some open source and cross platform
software:

http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/index.html

Then please limit your discussion here to programs that are indeed
freeware. Discussions regarding registration at your site are also off-
topic.

 

[Klaatu]

Or do as I did:
email the author, tell him you don't want to donate and get a
non-expiring key.

Still doesn't make it freeware...

 

[Vic Dura]

Still doesn't make it freeware...

Yes it does.

 

[tsaint]

Then why do you continue to post in a freeware newsgroup? Clearly your site
contains no freeware whatsoever, so please go away.

To most reasonable people, free = requires no money.
Hence freeware would be, to them, software requiring no money.
Mouser's software fits this exactly.
Free does NOT imply the existence or absence of an expiry date
Free does NOT imply free from having to do something (eg such as obtain
a free licence ).
Otherwise NO software could possibly be freeware as one is required to
download it, to install it, etc.
So if we're going to be so pedantic in our definition of freeware as
to include free from having to do anything, it follows that there is no
such thing as freeware.
Its a shame that such such a sensible, commonsense and fair approach to
"whatever want to call it ware" seems to be ignored for the sake of
pedantry.
As a reader here, I'd really prefer you to go away Klaatu, as Ive found
Mouser's posts to contain something worth reading as opposed to yours.