Program similar to FindRun Robot

[Craig]

This seems reasonable.

Agreed.

Craig

 

[mouser]

this is not right.

there should be NO popups/nags/reminders of ANY kind once you enter a
license key. PERIOD.
i don't want people to think they are going to be seeing nags at
startup until they donate - indeed that would not be freeware and i
would consider that completely unacceptable.

the permanent non-expiring license you have should NEVER result in
another reminder or popup. if it is, something is wrong - maybe you
are blocking it from recording your license key or something else that
might be confusing it? you are welcome to email me or post on our
forum for help resolving this if you can't solve it.

(for the 6 month freeware license key by default you would ONLY see the
reminder after 6 months until you get another key, it does not pop up
before that).

 

[John Fitzsimons]

here's another though -
people are (perhaps rightly) focusing on the 6 months renewal thing.
the main point of that was like most of our approach, to try to get
people to really *think* about donating; we hope that by getting them
back to the site after 6 months of use they will realize "hey i really
use this program, and the site has just gotten better in those 6 months
since i decided not to donate, maybe not i will".

I think many of us understand what you are trying to do. It is mainly
the implementation/terminology that bothers a number of us.

but as i've said w.r.t. people being able to email me to request a
non-expiring license if they are sure they don't want to donate, maybe
we could allay some concerns if we simply said this:

Your initial freeware license key generated will turn into a "startup
nag/reminder" (and not expire the program) after 6 months.
At that point you can return to our site and generate a *permanent
non-expiring license key* for the program.

That would be better.

That would 1) make it so the programs never stop working.
and 2) make it so you only ever have to come back once for a renewal
key, after that it turns into full normal pure non-expiring non-nagging
freeware.

Alternatively if we were worried that that would make it just too
tempting to hit the "make me a non-expiring license key" button and
quickly never look back, we could ask that they renew twice before it
turned into a full non-expiring license key, i.e. after 6 months you
download another 6 month key, and after that you are given permanent
non-expiring license key; that's a no brainer for me and i see no
reason not to add that right away; later we can decide maybe we should
just give a permanent key at the time of first renewal.

i'd appreciate any thoughts on this - maybe this is a compromise that
people on the fence can feel good about?

The above would be an improvement. What exactly is it that you are
trying to do ?

(1) Get people back to your site after 6 months ?

or

(2) To try to get people to really *think* about donating ?

IF the latter then a nag screen can achieve this without anyone
needing to visit your site again in six months. Unless they chose to.
It would also tend to pacify people with "going out of business"
concerns.

Regards, John.
--
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,-._|\ (A.C.F FAQ) http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
/ Oz \ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/

 

[John Fitzsimons]

John,
"Okay, still very annoying. I don't need that sort of irritation. I
have better things to do than to have to constantly go back to web
sites and "re-register". "
6 months is constantly?????

"The point is that in able to make "sales" er...donations"
A snide remark which doesn't become you. We could split hairs over
definitions of sales and donations till the cows come home, with no one
changing their position.
Why not just embrace the spirit of what mouser is trying to do and be a
bit generous of spirit? Guess I'm trying to say with that, go with the
CONSTRUCTIVE comments, but leave out the odious comparisons to "devious
(dishonest?)" people.

Some of my comments were not necessarily how "I" see things. Just how
some other people may do so.

I am perfectly happy for mouser to continue "as is". His choice. He
may/may not appreciate my comments.

You may be happy to have to go back to web sites every six months to
keep programs from stopping working. That's fine by me. Your choice.

My choice however is to point out to people who talk about his
site/programs these "gotchas".

Regards, John.

--
****************************************************
,-._|\ (A.C.F FAQ) http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
/ Oz \ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/

 

[John Fitzsimons]

that's a very good point - here is what we have said publically on our
forum and maybe it needs to be put into print on the pages:
if we ever go "out of business", and the license keys are no longer
generated, all full member non-expiring license keys can be freely
shared.
in other words, should we ever dissapear, people are invited to
distribute and share non-expiring license keys publically.

Okay, but it needs to not only be put on the web pages (which would
probably vanish if you went out of business) but also in with the
installation files.

If others want to "renew" programs every six months and/or take the
chance that they may need to find other users with a registration code
then that is fine by me.

I however would want to do neither.

Regards, John.

--
****************************************************
,-._|\ (A.C.F FAQ) http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
/ Oz \ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/

 

[mouser]

following up, we have now inacted officially the policy change i
proposed above.

programs will never expire even if you never download a license key
from us (will be incorporated as each new version of each program is
released).
non-donators can download renewable 6-month license keys initially, and
a permanent non-expiring license key after 1 year.
as always, there are no nags or reminders once any kind of license key
(6 month or permanent) is used.

again our purpose for all this is to get people to visit the site and
seriously consider our request for donations to support our work - so
we are trying to find a balance that keeps the software freely
available for all but offers some incentive/motivation to donating.

Official announcement here:
http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=1784

 

[Klaatu]

To most reasonable people, free = requires no money.

I didn't say free, I said freeware. Try to keep up.

Hence freeware would be, to them, software requiring no money.

Then they would be wrong, at least according to the consensus of this
group as to what constitutes freeware: Legally obtainable software that
you may use at no cost, monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish.

Mouser's software fits this exactly.

Still doesn't make it freeware.

Free does NOT imply the existence or absence of an expiry date
Free does NOT imply free from having to do something (eg such as
obtain a free licence ).

We're not talking about something being free. We're talking about
freeware, which certainly DOES imply the absence of an expiry date or
having to obtain a license to eliminate nag screens.

Otherwise NO software could possibly be freeware as one is required to
download it, to install it, etc.
So if we're going to be so pedantic in our definition of freeware as
to include free from having to do anything, it follows that there is
no such thing as freeware.

Non sequitur. You seem to want to use the terms free and freeware
interchangably. I'm sorry to be the one to inform you: they have
different meanings, and trying to equate one to the other leads to
logical fallacies.

Its a shame that such such a sensible, commonsense and fair approach
to "whatever want to call it ware" seems to be ignored for the sake of
pedantry.

Pedantry: An ostentatious and inappropriate display of learning. OK,
whatever...

As a reader here, I'd really prefer you to go away Klaatu, as Ive
found Mouser's posts to contain something worth reading as opposed to
yours.

As a reader here, I assume you know how to use killfiles. Of course, that
could be a bad assumption on my part.

I thought we were here to talk about freeware, not about some fly-by-
night shareware website trying to pass itself off as a freeware site.
Perhaps that was also a bad assumption on my part.

 

[Michael Rainey]

mouser,

I've hung around your website for a few months now, have donated, have
gotten way more than my money's worth from the programs and fellowship, and
am on my way to send you another ten bucks as a token of support and
respect.

I used to write freeware, but couldn't stand the pain and gave it up.


Michael Rainey
http://mrainey.freeservers.com

 

[tsaint]

Hi John,
had a bit of a look at your website.

If you were "open and transparent", then you would need to tell people
before they hand over money that the mumbo jumbo you're peddling on
your site is the stuff of snake-oil salesmen.

The point is that in able to make "sales" er...donations, one first
needs to try out your programs.

The point is that in able to make "sales" er ... cons, one first needs
to buy the rubbish you peddle to then find what junk your pseudo
science is

For you to be annoyed at downloading something once every SIX MONTHS,
for god's sake, suggests you are a very poor practitioner of the
beliefs mentioned on your site, or else, as most rational people would
believe, they are feeble minded nonsense.
You sir, are a hypocrite of gigantic proportion.
regards
tony