Microsoft dampens Vista sales forecast

S

Saucy

Wegie said:
yes, thus they have no control over them. that's what I'm saying. they
MUST follow the established rules of USENET, not behave any differently.

that's why it has "public" in the group name, there is no restricted
access, thus MS has no control over the content.


Actually, they do have control over them to some extent. Microsoft has
enhanced its own servers so has to offer "Community" features vis Passport
technologies. One may take avantage of them. Also, by default, Windows Mail
hooks to msnews.microsoft.com - Microsoft servers - to participate in these
discussions. If other (USENET) servers online and Google servers pick up on
the Microsoft servers - well that's a gratuity - but one can participate
entirely on these Microsoft servers without using any of the "USENET"
otherwise, so one is, well, unobliged.

However, Microsoft does request respect (and its their servers I'm using),
so, since you are requesting bottom-posting, and I am replying to you, I
will try to honour your request as I can.
 
C

Conor

EarthSchol said:
And Video Editing, Wireless Access, Unix based OSs, Programming
Development, Music Creation and Distribution, Small Business
Applications, etc.
If that were true, non of my business clients - including the DTP and
sign companies - would use Windows...
 
L

\LG\

Conor said:
Bullshit.

I'm posting from my ISP Usenet server.

It's not BS. You're posting to an MS private server. If you don't know how
to tell, you shouldn't argue about it.
 
?

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=

Saucy said:
Duh. This is a Microsoft newsgroup, originally from Microsoft. Microsoft
software defaults to top-posting because that was the was it was done at
Microsoft internally for many years even before the World Wide Web.

It also defaults to **** up quoting and signatures.
 
?

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=

Max said:
When you read a book, and put it down at page 73, then later resume reading,
do you start with page 1, re-reading all the previously read pages before
proceeding to page 74?

No, you write a new book that starts at page 74, and adds pages 1 to 73
at the end.
 
M

Mitch

Bob Eyster said:
These NG's are not Usenet.
Look again at the addressees.
They are owned and operated by Microsoft
therefore have their own rules.
Agreed, but the facts and logic don't change for Microsoft; Microsoft
just makes excuses for doing things wrong.
And look at whcih groups this thread was being posted to -- both
Microsoft groups are completely off-topic!

Bottom-posting makes sense, top-posting does not.
Snipping out text you aren't replying to is necessary to show what you
are replying to.

That's all we are talking about.
 
M

Mitch

Saucy said:
INLINE:


I can


Post




any WAY
I chO0se


to.

Oh, the wonders of free spreech and press, eh!?

We aren't discussing free speech in any way, dummy.
This hasn't got a single thing to do with being forced to speak or not
to speak. It is ENTIRELY about the proper way to communicate.
The PROPER WAY.
THAT'S NOT YOUR CALL!
The proper way for people to communicate involves following a few basic
rules so that people know what to read and in what order, and in the
case of snipping showing enough context so that your new language has
meaning.

Yes, you can certainly type every word backwards, from bottom to top,
and in up-side down Cyrillic -- but the PURPOSE of posting is to get
your message read and understood, and that is inflexible.
Idiot.
 
M

Mitch

Bob Eyster said:
Mac leads in Graphics and desktop publishing. That's about it....

And what part of any conversation made you think anyone was talking
only about who had the lead in specific industries?

What should anyone decide based on such an extremely narrow observation?
 
B

Bill

Only on a MS newsgroup would people argue about the proper placement of
replies. (continued on bottom)



Look again at the addressees.

Agreed, but the facts and logic don't change for Microsoft; Microsoft
just makes excuses for doing things wrong.
And look at whcih groups this thread was being posted to -- both
Microsoft groups are completely off-topic!

Bottom-posting makes sense, top-posting does not.
Snipping out text you aren't replying to is necessary to show what you
are replying to.

That's all we are talking about.

It is part of their FUD initiative. If your position is indefensible,
argue about non-essentials.
 
M

Mitch

Max <[email protected]> said:
When you read a book, and put it down at page 73, then later resume reading,
do you start with page 1, re-reading all the previously read pages before
proceeding to page 74?

That complaint has nothing to do with sequence (top-to-bottom) as you
are still talkjing entirely about reading the same direction.

You are arguing now about the failure of many people to snip out junk.

That's a valid complaint, but it has nothing to do with top-posting.
Nothing.
 
M

Mitch

Saucy said:
Q: Why can you read this line right away?
A: Because it is on top.

A: Because one has to scroll down all through the text to get to the
beginning of the reply - that's why. (As you can see from this example ..
scroll down for Q.)


And you are arguing then that ALL of the ENTIRE JUNK POST you are
replying to MUST BE INCLUDED?

SERIOUSLY? You're THAT STUPID?

It's your post -- quote the part you are replying to, and NONE OF THE
OTHER PROBLEMS EXIST!
 
M

Maverick

Conor said:
If that were true, non of my business clients - including the DTP and
sign companies - would use Windows...

So? Does that put Pointy-Haired-Bosses into the intelligent category?
Most are too ignorant of which operating system to use.
 
M

Maverick

Wegie said:
yeah. So "technically" it's not Saucy's fault. It's a Microsoft email
program that has been incorrectly designed to work with Usenet.

Why MS doesn't follow established standards is beyond me. They ruin
internet usability, and make people like Saucy look foolish - so sad.

That's why the wintrolls are so clueless. A lot of M$ designed websites
can't meet W3C standards... plus they go out of their way to torpedo
these same standards with their own misconceived ideas and then start
saying that they *are* the standard.
 
M

Mitch

Saucy said:
But you fail to understand a couple things or so:

1. I have one newsgroup server going - one - that's it. It is
msnews.microsoft.com and I use it directly.
Not failing to understand -- that's simply irrelevant!
2. Top-posting is perfectly acceptable on the Microsoft news servers.
No, people make EXCUSES to top-post on those servers, and those people
TELL people that it is acceptable. It is still wrong, even according to
Microsoft, and even in spite of how Microsoft built their own tools.
People make excuses to speed on the freeway, too -- and many do. That
doesn't mean it becomes proper to do so, and it certainly doesn't make
it smarter to do.
3. If someone has cross-posted too much with the Original Post, that's not
my problem quite frankly.
Totally separate issue, right? But you are making a new message, and
YOU decide where that gets posted. No, the original poster does not
decide for you.
Don't hit me for top-posting on the Microsoft
servers, hit the Original Poster for cross-posting all over the Internet.
You're assuming your "but Microsoft groups seem to allow it" is an
acceptable support for further argument. It's not, and it wouln't be
good enough if it were.
I
otherwise completely stick to the Microsoft servers and freely top-post as
is acceptable etiquette here.
No, ACCEPTED (by users). That does not mean ACCEPTED NEWSGROUP
STANDARD, it just means some users have made excuses for it. They have
in other groups, too -- and if no one minds, then there is no reason it
needs to come up.
But some people DO mind, don't they? Even in those groups, people
complain quite frequently, right? So you HAVE NOT got a uniform code.
It's simply one which some people ignore.
4. If you subscribe to Microsoft newsgroups, then you should be well aware
that top-posting is often the way with replies posted on Microsoft servers.
And I have given you several reasons why 'often done' is not the same
as 'proper' or 'acceptable.' Why do you resist? Is it bound into your
personal philosophy? Your identity? Just comply with the language rules
you have always been told about!
If this pains you and you are subscribed to msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups,
then unsubscribe.
You mean, if half the people in those groups top-post, it isn't a sign
of ignorance, it's a sign they have taken over and everyone who
disagrees with it must leave?
Why shouldn't the same exact thing apply (in those groups) to the
top-posters, who frequently are complained about?
If you are inadvertently viewing these
msnews.microsoft.com posts because the Original Poster cross-posted to
non-Microsoft groups you subscribe to and this pains you, see #3.
Actually, I think people are trying to help you, so that your messages
will make sense to people and you won't look so foolish. (just like the
people who routinely mispronounce or misspell words) If that isn't
something you care about, consider not posting.
 
M

Maverick

Saucy said:
A: Because one must scroll all through the text before one reads what
one wants to read first.
You mean like this:

5.) You are done.
4.) Put in the final mounting screws.
3.) Push oven hood into recess.
2.) Hook up the wiring.
1.) Make sure the power is off.

Uh-huh.
Real intutitive eh?
 
S

STravis

This is a joke, right? 'Cause otherwise, it's you that is coming across as
the idiot. The letters MVP, BTW, are earned; but you wouldn't know about
that.

No actually Wegie (?) has a point...the web site is pretty sad.... As
far as the MVP title...;)
--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com


Jupiter Jones is a HUGE idiot. He calls himself an "MVP", but on his
website it has this:
Important Computer Security, what you MUST do:
* 1. Firewall
* 2. Windows Update
* 3. Antivirus
* 4. Spyware
WHAT A JOKE!
On a Mac, you need NONE of that. It just goes to show how clueless
Windows and their so-called "leadership" is.
His site looks like a 2 year old did it as well.
1993 is calling Jupiter!

Don't any Windows users have ANY taste?
 
B

Bill

I use pan in pclinuxos. It is an outstanding newsreader. I use xnews in
windows xp.
(continued on bottom for all the bottom feeders)


That's why the wintrolls are so clueless. A lot of M$ designed websites
can't meet W3C standards... plus they go out of their way to torpedo
these same standards with their own misconceived ideas and then start
saying that they *are* the standard.

Dont try to fix Vista..just keep pouring on the FUD.
 
M

Mitch

Peter said:
The American Dream dictates that the sole metric for judging success is
profit.

The American Dream does not dictate anything. It is a description about
the attitude of many people during a "golden age" of growth and
development in America. It is not a rule to be led by, and it may not
have any real validity today in any case.

A summary of the American Dream (woefully misrepresented, by the way!)
is no metric to judge anything.

There are far more complex things to consider in the real world, like
pride of workmanship, pride of invention, social contributions,
respect, even influence. People usually consider one of those more
important.
 

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