Microsoft dampens Vista sales forecast

[Mitch]

If that were true, non of my business clients - including the DTP and
sign companies - would use Windows...

Jeez, what a load of dummies.

One guy says Apple is great to introduce new ideas and technologies,
and someone responds that Mac only has the lead in two specific
industries (a totally unrelated comment).
Then, someone else comments about other specific industries Mac is
strong in, and some other jerk claims they can't be because that means
there wouldn't be a single Windows computer at any of those industries.

Are Windows users just totally focused on being taken over, or what?

 

[Mitch]

Another one bites the dust.

So; a decision to ignore without any kind of counter-argument, without
any reason offered, and without any explanation of why?

Good not to hear from you, then.

I offered logic and reasons; to the rest, respond with more of the
same, or accept the decision of newsgroups in general to post below a
small amount of quoted text.

 

[Mitch]

Only on a MS newsgroup would people argue about the proper placement of
replies. (continued on bottom)





It is part of their FUD initiative. If your position is indefensible,
argue about non-essentials.

Who are you talking about, though?
This discussion goes on in many groups, mostly for the same reason:
Microsoft's default newsreader does it wrongly.

If Microsoft had made the newsreader do the correct thing (something
they acknowledge themselves!) in the first place, OR, if they had fixed
it at any time since, this would never have been any issue. People
would always do it correctly, and we'd only be talking about people's
failure to snip junk out (which is due to laziness or ignorance, and
thus is a permanent problem).

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

And your post gets fed to the Microsoft server.
Most regulars here choose to post directly to the Microsoft news server and
skip the middleman that you are using.

What your ISPs news server chooses to take from Microsoft server is up to
them.
But they, and thus you, accept what comes according to the rules Microsoft
has established.
Microsoft has made no statement regarding top or bottom posting for good
reason and others insisting one or the other is wrong make that person WRONG
for attempting to push their opinion as a rule for others.

If you do not like it, contact your news server so they can take whatever
action they desire.
Or you can ask Microsoft to make a rule to suit your opinion.

 

[Nina DiBoy]

1. You are obviously too thick headed to see the humor or my quotations.

Humor? In your "quotations"? LOL, that's rich.

2. "vista not seeling as well as they though" still does NOT equal
"failing in the market place".

Did I ever say that it did?

3. You're telling me to work on read comprehension?

Yes, go back and read it again since you need to ask again.

How is that going
to work when I have to read words like "seeling"? If you're going to
tell people to learn to read then at least spell check your own BS!

Rag on a typo. Gee, that's original.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"I do know for a fact that his monkey really needs a spanking. The monkey
gets "out of hand" if you know what I mean!"

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot

 

[Nina DiBoy]

Wegie wrote:

He has never used a real newsreader before. The fault really lays in
Outhouse Express 6.0... it puts his cursor at the top instead of at the
bottom like the rest of the newsreaders do.

You mean Outhouse Distress?

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"I do know for a fact that his monkey really needs a spanking. The
monkey gets "out of hand" if you know what I mean!"

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot

 

[Nina DiBoy]

yeah. So "technically" it's not Saucy's fault. It's a Microsoft email
program that has been incorrectly designed to work with Usenet.

Why MS doesn't follow established standards is beyond me. They ruin
internet usability, and make people like Saucy look foolish - so sad.

It's a setting. You can set it to position the cursor for top or bottom
post.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"I do know for a fact that his monkey really needs a spanking. The monkey
gets "out of hand" if you know what I mean!"

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot

 

[Peter B. P.]

Actually, so is Ford, GM, and Chrsyler.
I heard on the news that Daimler-Benz is considering selling off their
Chrsyler division. Ford may sell to Toyota, and GM doesn't care... GMs
new market is selling Buicks to the Chinese.

It just shows you that our country has already been sold and the rest is
being flushed down the drain.

Thank the welfare statists for their overbearing intervention with
regulation and taxes. The US does not have a friendly business climate,
all things considered.

 

[Peter Hayes]

The American Dream does not dictate anything. It is a description about
the attitude of many people during a "golden age" of growth and
development in America. It is not a rule to be led by, and it may not
have any real validity today in any case.

There's a lot of people for whom making money is their sole motivation
in life. The American Dream, whatever it's called these days, certainly
includes this demograph.

A summary of the American Dream (woefully misrepresented, by the way!)
is no metric to judge anything.

There are far more complex things to consider in the real world, like
pride of workmanship, pride of invention, social contributions,
respect, even influence. People usually consider one of those more
important.

The Bill Gates operation addresses only the last, plus making money of
course. All the others appear to have no place in Microsoft's thinking.
Yet Microsoft is held up as a shining example of successful American
capitalism, supported it would seem by the highest in the land..

 

[Mitch]

It's a setting. You can set it to position the cursor for top or bottom
post.

And yet the user would have to know why it needs to change, understand
the issue to be motivated enough, and figure out how. Those are
unlikely.
The default setting of the default program is a HUGE issue.

Now, since Microsoft has internally recognized bottom-posting as the
proper method, let's ask why they haven't fixed it. Why does OE _still_
have this default? Why does it _still_ have the quoting problem?

I suspect this wouldn't be a day's work at Microsoft, and it matters,
and yet it still isn't fixed. People should be annoyed at that.

 

[Saucy]

-chop-
The default setting of the default program is a HUGE issue.

It's a small issue. The big issue is that USENET is dying. 'Last I checked
the group I frequented was so flooded with SPAM and robot absolute nonsense
posts that it was getting impossible. Robots would simply flood the
newsgroup with random garbage. Hundreds in a day etc. etc. I imagine it is
still that way, only my ISP (Rogers Cable Internet) stopped the USENET
service and I haven't subscribed to a 3rd party service since I already post
too much on Microsoft groups.

But, I'm right. It's not really top / bottom / in-line or poetry posting
that the big issue. It's the SPAM, robots and trolls that are completely
busting up what were once very good groups for discussions regardless if one
were a neat bottom poster or a top poster.

On non-Microsoft groups I quickly learned to bottom post as that was how
most regulars at non-icrosoft newsgroups preferred it. On Microsoft servers
I usually top post as that's how the regulars like it. Bottom posting is
almost like trolling when the group starts with microsoft.*

Anyway, for me, the big issue was the SPAM and robots ruining the groups. At
least at the Microsoft groups much of that is mercifully blocked. And
Microsoft hasn't stated whether top or bottom is preferred. They both have
their advantages. Top tends to be easy to read if one has the thread already
in mind. Bottom lines things up well and makes archival reading easier ..

 

[Peter Hayes]

Duh. This is a Microsoft newsgroup, originally from Microsoft. Microsoft
software defaults to top-posting because that was the was it was done at
Microsoft internally for many years even before the World Wide Web.

All that proves is that even before the World Wide Web Microsoft
couldn't get anything right...

 

[Peter Hayes]

These NG's are not Usenet. They are owned and operated by Microsoft
therefore have their own rules.

Anyone can create a newsgroup. Microsoft, I assume, have created the
"microsoft.public." series of newsgroups as an alternate and cost free
support forum. By making them public, and therefore linked into the
wider Usenet community, Microsoft relinquish any control they might have
had over the "rules", and general netiquette custom and practice take
over.

A top posted one line "thank you" may be acceptable as a courtesy reply
to a problem fix, but inline or bottom posting is far more readable,
especially to someone trawling the archives - you /do/ know these posts
are archived, don't you?

So, for once, wegie, AKA Oxford/Ted Landry/Michelle
Steiner/EarthSchol/Mark Thompson/Mayor of R'lyeh/Seven/Albright/etc is
correct.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

"Wegie" <[email protected]> blabbered

I can
Post
any WAY
I chO0se

More important than top post vs. bottom post IMO, is trimming quoted
material to just what is relevant to your reply ;-)

------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

 

[Lefty Bigfoot]

All that proves is that even before the World Wide Web Microsoft
couldn't get anything right...

Correct. On look at DOS should be ample proof.

 

[Bob Eyster]

Plunk!!!!

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"Microsoft relinquish any control they might have"
Not at all as occasionally demonstrated by the deletion by Microsoft of
posts Microsoft considers inappropriate.

 

[Peter Hayes]

Reformatted for clarity.

"Microsoft relinquish any control they might have"
Not at all as occasionally demonstrated by the deletion by Microsoft of
posts Microsoft considers inappropriate.

I'm sure Microsoft can delete "inappropriate" posts from /their/
servers. Issuing world wide cancels is a different proposition.

 

[Peter Hayes]

It's not BS. You're posting to an MS private server. If you don't know how
to tell, you shouldn't argue about it.

He's posting from his ISP's Usenet server and it ends up on every usenet
server worldwide that carries the microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
newsgroup.

They will include but aren't exclusively Microsoft's servers. You may
get your feed of microsoft.public.windows.vista.general from a Microsoft
server, some of us get the feed from our ISP's servers or some
independent server we've subscribed to for a few $/yr.

Microsoft could shut down their usenet servers and these microsoft.xxx
newsgroups would continue unaffected if they didn't cancel them.

 

[Peter Hayes]

Rearranged for clarity

If people choose to remain ignorant they reap the reward of ignorance. They
choose to remain unaware of their options. That is *entirely* their own
responsibility.

If they had gone to the local library, one with an Internet connection (and
let's say the search page was set at Google), all's they need to do is seach
the term:

"operating system choices"

The first problem is that most average joes don't even know what an
operating system is.

Microsoft have spent 25 years exploiting that ignorance and reinforcing
it by denying mainstream OEMs the right to offer alternative OSs.

However things are changing with Apple's rising profile and today's
youngsters being vastly more computer literate than their forebears.