XP Very slow

M

Martin Racette

Hi,

I'm having a weird problem, about a month ago I moved my system from a SCSI
drive to an IDE one (which is bigger), the system became suddently very slow the
CPU seem to get to 100% and stays there for some time and then the system get
back a something close to normal, and then again it gets back to 100%.

Those symptoms occur what ever I do, even just browsing the web in a full text
page.

I would like for it to be back to normal. Right now my notebook is close to be 3
times faster than my desktop, and it's supposed to be the opposite

BTW. I ran 3 chkdsk /f on all of my drives, defragmented all, did a repair
install, and re-installing the whole system is NOT an options since there are
too many accounts and other settings to re-create, it would take at least a year
before I could be close to functionnal

--
Thank you in Advance

Merci a l'Avance

Martin
 
Y

Yves Leclerc

Run an anti-virus checking program

Run spuware/malwae/hackware detection program Ad-Aware 6 and Spybot Search
nd Destroy.

Close all un-used auto-start programs.

Install the latest motherboard chipset drivers. If the motherboard chipset
is based on Intel, install Intel Application Accelerator in order to install
the Utra-DMA drivers for the hard drive access.

Defragment your hard drive.


DO NOT CROSS-POST!

Y.
 
K

Kent_Diego

Did you set the hard drive jumper to master? Don't! This is common problem
with many hard drives. There is often a poorly documented "Single" setting.
Often "Cable Select" or removing the jumper will fix. You are using 80 wire
IDE cable with HD at end connector aren't you? Did the IDE driver make drive
access PIO mode? This sometimes happens. Look in hardware device manager IDE
Primary IDE Controller Properties and see what Transfer Mode is. If not UDMA
Mode 5 or is PIO mode, uninstall driver, re-boot, and plug and play will
re-install.

-Kent
 
L

Logan

you better consider some sort of BU for you data.....you put all your eggs
in a basket with holes in it.....very foolish.....
 
M

Martin Racette

All of this is all ready done

--
Thank you in Advance

Merci a l'Avance

Martin
 
M

Martin Racette

I have 2 HDD connected the 60Gb is partition in 2 one for the system and the
other for all the programs and the other 200Gb for the data, so I had no choice
but to set the 60Gb to Master and the 200Gb to slave

Yes, I'm using 80 wires cable for all IDE device and the driver is in UltraDMA
mode 5 for both drives and in UltraDMA mode 2 for the DVD and DVD-+RW, and the
driver is the one that came with XP

--
Thank you in Advance

Merci a l'Avance

Martin
 
M

Martin Racette

I don't understand what you mean, all of the data is on other drives, so I
didn't put all my eggs in a basket with holes

--
Thank you in Advance

Merci a l'Avance

Martin
 
C

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:28:00 -0500, "Martin Racette"
I'm having a weird problem, about a month ago I moved my system from a SCSI
drive to an IDE one (which is bigger), the system became suddently very slow

How did you "move"? Something like Ghost or BING image?

If so, look at the hidden C:\BOOT.INI file and see if your XP
partition is defined using scsi() rather than multi() syntax.

If that is the case, research the problem first rather than simply
changing the syntax to see if that will fix it! Also, NT (such as XP)
may add controller-specific drivers in C:\ using a standard driver
name for ease of early loading. If removing the SCSI card causes the
PC to not boot XP (even if nothing's "on" the SCSI), suspect this.

Once again, more research is needed. Normally these things are set up
when the OS is first installed (a "repair" or over-old install may
inherit and re-use the bad settings) so retro-fitting changes later
may turn out to be something of a black art.


-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Running Windows-based av to kill active malware is like striking
a match to see if what you are standing in is water or petrol.
 
M

Martin Racette

The BOOT.INI file is as follow:
[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINSOWS="Microsoft XP Professional"
/fastdetect
C:\CMDCONS\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

As for the SCSI controller, it's still in the computer since I keep using it, no
sense wasting perfectly good fast HDD

ANd I used Partition Magic to move the whole thing to a bigger partition

--
Thank you in Advance

Merci a l'Avance

Martin
 
P

Peter Hutchison

Hi,

I'm having a weird problem, about a month ago I moved my system from a SCSI
drive to an IDE one (which is bigger), the system became suddently very slow the
CPU seem to get to 100% and stays there for some time and then the system get
back a something close to normal, and then again it gets back to 100%.

Those symptoms occur what ever I do, even just browsing the web in a full text
page.

I would like for it to be back to normal. Right now my notebook is close to be 3
times faster than my desktop, and it's supposed to be the opposite

BTW. I ran 3 chkdsk /f on all of my drives, defragmented all, did a repair
install, and re-installing the whole system is NOT an options since there are
too many accounts and other settings to re-create, it would take at least a year
before I could be close to functionnal

Check which services are running, in particular the Indexing Service,
which CAN use up a lot of CPU time, indexing files on the HD.

1. Run Services.msc
2. Find 'Indexing Service'
3. Stop the Service
4. Change startup to Manual

There is also a MS Patch no Q811493 which can also cause slowness on
some machines. Remove this to see if things improve as well!

Peter Hutchison
Windows FAQ
http://www.pcguru.plus.com/
 
C

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:27:28 -0500, "Martin Racette"
The BOOT.INI file is as follow:
[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINSOWS="Microsoft XP Professional"
/fastdetect
C:\CMDCONS\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

OK, that's using multi() syntax that should be fine for xIDE.
As for the SCSI controller, it's still in the computer since I keep using it, no
sense wasting perfectly good fast HDD
;-)

ANd I used Partition Magic to move the whole thing to a bigger partition

Ah. One thing I'd worry about is whether partition alignment caused
an NTFS volume to use 512-byte clusters, which will be excruciatingly
slow and more prone to frag, data loss etc. Expect a ChkDsk or defrag
to take ages (as in days rather than an hour or few).

BING has a clue to avoid this, but PM - dunno.


-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Running Windows-based av to kill active malware is like striking
a match to see if what you are standing in is water or petrol.
 
M

Martin Racette

The cluster size was and is still 4K, I checked it as it was suggested that
might be the culprit.

If you have any other suggestion I'm open

--
Thank you in Advance

Merci a l'Avance

Martin
cquirke (MVP Win9x) said:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:27:28 -0500, "Martin Racette"
The BOOT.INI file is as follow:
[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINSOWS="Microsoft XP Professional"
/fastdetect
C:\CMDCONS\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

OK, that's using multi() syntax that should be fine for xIDE.
As for the SCSI controller, it's still in the computer since I keep using it, no
sense wasting perfectly good fast HDD
;-)

ANd I used Partition Magic to move the whole thing to a bigger partition

Ah. One thing I'd worry about is whether partition alignment caused
an NTFS volume to use 512-byte clusters, which will be excruciatingly
slow and more prone to frag, data loss etc. Expect a ChkDsk or defrag
to take ages (as in days rather than an hour or few).

BING has a clue to avoid this, but PM - dunno.


-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Running Windows-based av to kill active malware is like striking
a match to see if what you are standing in is water or petrol.
-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
 
C

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:38:09 -0500, "Martin Racette"
The cluster size was and is still 4K, I checked it as it was suggested that
might be the culprit.

Good one!
If you have any other suggestion I'm open

You've pretty much reached the end of this tshooting wizard, so I'll
step back from the SCSI-to-IDE focus and take a biiger view :)


The following problems can cause massive slowdown:

1) Disabled L1 and/or L2 cache in CMOS

Expect a smooth but profound slowdown, while the system runs
reasonably stably. Slowdown kicks in from power up onwards.

2) Failing HD and sector retries

Accessing HD should take a fraction of a second, but can get bogged
down for seconds at a time if the sector is physically unreadable, as:
- each calling layer may retry several times; nesting/multiplication
- the HD's firmware tries to relocate the sector contents on the fly
- if NTFS, OS also tries to relocate the sector contents on the fly

Expect a patchy slowdown that isn't related to uptime, and can be
associated with instabilities (depending on what files are affected -
often it will be those most often used, so expect registry crises)

While slow, the HD LED will be on, and the HD will either be silent or
make cyclical noises (cylinder seeks). The mouse pointer will
typically stick and keystrokes be ignored during the pauses.

3) Processor retreating into thermal protection

If processor overheats, it may protect itself by stopping for a while
(e.g. the old Socket 7 generation) or by slowing down smoothly but
failry profoundly (newer generations). This will start a while after
cold boot, and may be associated with instability.

4) Interrupt flooding

A defective hardware device may flood the system with interrupt
requests, crowding out processing time for everything else. Expect
stability issues if this is the cause.

5) Malware

Sometimes the performace impact of malware will be so severe as to
fall into the category. The effect may be worse when online.


The following problems can cause significant slowdown:

a) Malware and other underfootware

Traditional malware (worms, viruses etc.), commercial malware (usually
worse when online) and other underfootware such as multiple resident
antiviruses, indexing services and so on.

Suppress these in MSConfig and test, and compare with Safe Mode. Safe
Mode is usually slower because less efficient drivers are used, so if
you get the reverse mileage, chase this category of problem.

b) Less efficient HD operating modes

If you use a 40-pin IDE data cable, you restrict your HD to sub-UIDE66
modes. Other issues - controller drivers, CMOS settings etc. - may
force PIO or lower UIDE modes, and hurt too. Expect the system to be
smoothly slower from the moment you start up, and stable.

c) Cluttered directories

More likely to be a problem in FATxx than NTFS, because NTFS uses an
indexed structure to avoid linear look-up. Anything that dumps masses
of entries in an oft-used directory will have this effect, even if the
files themselves are small; it's the long and fragmented directory
itself that causese the slowdown, which also opens the critical window
for updates and thus increases the risk of corruption. Cases:
- TIF (a given, when MS's stupid defaults are left in)
- Temp
- the Windows base dir, if MDM.EXE running (kill via IE's Options)
- the root dir (certain malware in particular)

d) System Restore

Anything that "strobes" a monitored file will have an exaggerated
effect as SR continually makes backup copies of the altered file.

This is typical when a program uses a monitored file type as a log
file, as log files are typically opened and closed repeatedly so that
changes are kept even if the system suddenly dies.

Commercial av have been implicated in this on WinME.

e) Fragmentation issues

After a volume conversion, your files may be left fragmented
(especially if cluster size increased) or in the "wrong place". The
first defrag you do after such cases will take forever, but will
likely help overcome the problem immediately.

f) Networking issues

A bad LAN cable can have similar impact to a failing HD, looking much
the same except less "patchy" and the HD LED won't always be on.
Other LAN issues will have a milder effect. The problem may be off
your PC, i.e. some other PC or device constantly accessing yours.

g) Memory (mis)management

If left to its own devices, Windows will generally not screw up here.
It's when "memory optimizers" are added or custom settings are
applied, such as forced limits on swap or cache, that things slow down


That's all that comes to mind right now - I do have the feeling I've
left out stuff, but must move on, alas!

-- Risk Management is the clue that asks:
"Why do I keep open buckets of petrol next to all the
ashtrays in the lounge, when I don't even have a car?"
 
B

Bob Willard

cquirke said:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:38:09 -0500, "Martin Racette"




Good one!




You've pretty much reached the end of this tshooting wizard, so I'll
step back from the SCSI-to-IDE focus and take a biiger view :)


The following problems can cause massive slowdown:

1) Disabled L1 and/or L2 cache in CMOS

Expect a smooth but profound slowdown, while the system runs
reasonably stably. Slowdown kicks in from power up onwards.

2) Failing HD and sector retries

Accessing HD should take a fraction of a second, but can get bogged
down for seconds at a time if the sector is physically unreadable, as:
- each calling layer may retry several times; nesting/multiplication
- the HD's firmware tries to relocate the sector contents on the fly
- if NTFS, OS also tries to relocate the sector contents on the fly

Expect a patchy slowdown that isn't related to uptime, and can be
associated with instabilities (depending on what files are affected -
often it will be those most often used, so expect registry crises)

While slow, the HD LED will be on, and the HD will either be silent or
make cyclical noises (cylinder seeks). The mouse pointer will
typically stick and keystrokes be ignored during the pauses.

3) Processor retreating into thermal protection

If processor overheats, it may protect itself by stopping for a while
(e.g. the old Socket 7 generation) or by slowing down smoothly but
failry profoundly (newer generations). This will start a while after
cold boot, and may be associated with instability.

4) Interrupt flooding

A defective hardware device may flood the system with interrupt
requests, crowding out processing time for everything else. Expect
stability issues if this is the cause.

5) Malware

Sometimes the performace impact of malware will be so severe as to
fall into the category. The effect may be worse when online.


The following problems can cause significant slowdown:

a) Malware and other underfootware

Traditional malware (worms, viruses etc.), commercial malware (usually
worse when online) and other underfootware such as multiple resident
antiviruses, indexing services and so on.

Suppress these in MSConfig and test, and compare with Safe Mode. Safe
Mode is usually slower because less efficient drivers are used, so if
you get the reverse mileage, chase this category of problem.

b) Less efficient HD operating modes

If you use a 40-pin IDE data cable, you restrict your HD to sub-UIDE66
modes. Other issues - controller drivers, CMOS settings etc. - may
force PIO or lower UIDE modes, and hurt too. Expect the system to be
smoothly slower from the moment you start up, and stable.

c) Cluttered directories

More likely to be a problem in FATxx than NTFS, because NTFS uses an
indexed structure to avoid linear look-up. Anything that dumps masses
of entries in an oft-used directory will have this effect, even if the
files themselves are small; it's the long and fragmented directory
itself that causese the slowdown, which also opens the critical window
for updates and thus increases the risk of corruption. Cases:
- TIF (a given, when MS's stupid defaults are left in)
- Temp
- the Windows base dir, if MDM.EXE running (kill via IE's Options)
- the root dir (certain malware in particular)

d) System Restore

Anything that "strobes" a monitored file will have an exaggerated
effect as SR continually makes backup copies of the altered file.

This is typical when a program uses a monitored file type as a log
file, as log files are typically opened and closed repeatedly so that
changes are kept even if the system suddenly dies.

Commercial av have been implicated in this on WinME.

e) Fragmentation issues

After a volume conversion, your files may be left fragmented
(especially if cluster size increased) or in the "wrong place". The
first defrag you do after such cases will take forever, but will
likely help overcome the problem immediately.

f) Networking issues

A bad LAN cable can have similar impact to a failing HD, looking much
the same except less "patchy" and the HD LED won't always be on.
Other LAN issues will have a milder effect. The problem may be off
your PC, i.e. some other PC or device constantly accessing yours.

g) Memory (mis)management

If left to its own devices, Windows will generally not screw up here.
It's when "memory optimizers" are added or custom settings are
applied, such as forced limits on swap or cache, that things slow down


That's all that comes to mind right now - I do have the feeling I've
left out stuff, but must move on, alas!




"Why do I keep open buckets of petrol next to all the
ashtrays in the lounge, when I don't even have a car?"

Good list and good explanations. Good work.
 

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