WinXP-64 and Athlon64

[J.Venning]

... (snip) ... It won't hurt anything to try it. That's quite a bit
different than installing it on his system, particularly if it's his only
one.
Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
"Making it hard to do stupid things often makes it hard
to do smart ones too." -- Andrew Koenig

Thanks, Fellas ! I really appreciate all the input you gave me, and will
give them a try. At this point in time, I think it's best for me to go back
to my ol' XP Home, because of the various clashes I'm experiencing, until
such time I can get a commercial copy of XP 64 that can be updated. I will
miss the speed though - just as an example, it takes me about one-and-a-half
minutes to open a backup DVD from Windows Explorer with the old 32-bit, but
an amazing 3 seconds with the 64-bit ! Yes, that much difference.
J.

 

[J.Venning]

Incidentally, I did consider partitioning my harddisk and have both the
32 and the 64bit installed, and decided that it would be too troublesome to
switch from one to the other for the purposes I use the computer. Any of you
guys tried out Longhorn ? Or perhaps even Blackcomb?
J.

 

[J.Venning]

Money is no object? That's easy then, build one of these...
http://www.es.jamstec.go.jp/esc/eng/ES/hardware.html
Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
"Making it hard to do stupid things often makes it hard
to do smart ones too." -- Andrew Koenig

Very impressive ! But - I felt like a kid going into a candy factory and
can't find the candy.
J.

 

[J.Venning]

.. (snip) ... There are only few (beta-)drivers available, and
applications that massively influence the OS like that Norton crap will
fail, too<
Michael

Now that, to me, is a very interesting statement, because I don't have
the opportunity to test out other Internet Security programs other than
Norton. I take it that you had several unpleasant experiences with Norton
and found something better. Would you please enlighten this newbie as to
what was it with Norton that you didn't like, and what is your preferred
program instead (don't worry, I'm not making a survey for Norton, or any
other software manufacturer, I just want to satisfy my own craving for
better software). Thanks.
J.

 

[Michael Paul]

Now that, to me, is a very interesting statement, because I don't
have the opportunity to test out other Internet Security programs
other than Norton.

There is no need for "security software" - if you care about proper
configuration of your system and your own behaviour. First thing is:
get clarity about the threats you will protect your system against. And
then think about how to avoid those attacks. Reduce risk. More software
will increase risk.

I take it that you had several unpleasant experiences with Norton
and found something better.

Yes, I found something much better;-). Here a small sketch of my
"security concept):
1. Disable any unnecessary services. Result: "Personal Firewall" is no
longer needed, because the doors are finally closed.
2. Don't use software, that is known to be unsafe. That means: Toss IE
and outlook (Express) and use other browsers and mailsoftware. And yes,
IE is No1 target for spy- and malware-distributors.
3. Never work with administrative permissions! So malware has no
opportunity to manipulate your system files and directories.

Just have a look at http://www.ntsvcfg.de/ntsvcfg_eng.html

Would you please enlighten this newbie as to
what was it with Norton that you didn't like,

Norton is at least bloat. I got a 90 days trial with my mainboard, so I
had the opportunity to try it out. It lowered the speed of my boy
dramatically. Also there some security issues were reported. Very often
Networking issues are induced by Norton IS (that is true for other
Firewall Software, too). And last, but not least, efficiency in finding
malware has decreased with the last versions, compared to other
products.

and what is your preferred program instead

Just the security concept of avoiding attack surfaces, combined with a
virus scanner that allows me to check files I have downloaded or got on
floppy, CD-ROM etc. Actually I use Bitdefender free (AV scanner that
rund in the background is IMHO not necessary). Kaspersky is great, too.

(don't worry, I'm not making a survey for Norton, or any
other software manufacturer,

And even if you did, this wouldn't affect me in any way ;-)

I just want to satisfy my own craving for better software

No, software isn't always the solution. You cannot buy security in a
box. You have to change your behaviour and you have to avoid risks.
Think about that.


Michael

 

[J.Venning]

.......... (snip) .......No, software isn't always the solution. You
cannot buy security in a box. You have to change your behaviour and you
have to avoid risks.
Think about that.
Michael

I will. Thanks a million ! You're a gem !
J.

 

[Jerry McBride]

Well, I'm willing to give it a try.
Peachy...

Where do I get the download,

Google is your friend.

and how much will it cost me to get a hard copy?

That's something I never faced... buying a copy of Knoppix. If you can't
download and burn the FREE .iso... email me with your snail mail address
and I'll do it for you. FREE.

 

[J.Venning]

.......... (snip) That's something I never faced... buying a copy of
Knoppix. If you can't download and burn the FREE .iso... email me with
your snail mail address and I'll do it for you. FREE.<

Thank you ! That is indeed a very generous offer. In another thread, I
have written that I've ordered a DVD set (at $18.99), and will soon get
them. I have often extolled the positive side of the Internet in another
newsgroup - the exchange of ideas and experiences for peoples around the
world, showing the positive side of human nature. Yes, unfortunately there
is also the negative, but none of that has been shown here in this
newsgroup.
J.

 

[Jerry McBride]

Thank you ! That is indeed a very generous offer.

It's my pleasure. All in all, I've slowed down quite a bit. There was a time
I would handout a few hundred copies of linux each WEEK. I even sold, for a
$1.00 cdr's containing linux. After a while, I began to use cdrw so people
could send them back and allow me to over-write the old linux version with
the new one....

You see, I'm a modern day Johnny Apple Seed. Instead of planting fruit
trees, I'm sowing a crop of ideas and true innovation and even make a few
dollars on the side via my linux support activities.

It's a wonderful thing. If you ever need help, linux help, just ask.

Cheers.

--

******************************************************************************
Registered Linux User Number 185956
FSF Associate Member number 2340 since 05/20/2004
Join me in chat at #linux-users on irc.freenode.net
Buy an Xbox for $149.00, run linux on it and Microsoft loses $150.00!
10:17pm up 131 days, 6:03, 8 users, load average: 0.13, 0.15, 0.09

 

[Tom Mason]

Well, first, you have to know how to burn a .iso image to a CD. Then you
have to know that you are using a beta version of an OS (and all that
implies). and then you have to know that most hardware manufacturers won't
make drivers for beta OSes (and all that implies). And you have to know that
there will be hardly any 64-bit applications (and all that implies). And,
finally, you won't get a free copy of the final version of the OS (and all
that implies).

Good luck,

--
Tom Mason,

I've been using Windows XP x64 for a year now, and it keeps getting better,
but half of my hardware doesn't work yet. I'm not disappointed, 'cause I
know what I'm doing.

 

[J.Venning]

Well, first, you have to know how to burn a .iso image to a CD. Then you
have to know that you are using a beta version of an OS (and all that
implies). and then you have to know that most hardware manufacturers won't
make drivers for beta OSes (and all that implies). And you have to know
that there will be hardly any 64-bit applications (and all that implies).
And, finally, you won't get a free copy of the final version of the OS
(and all that implies).
Good luck,
Tom Mason,
I've been using Windows XP x64 for a year now, and it keeps getting
better, but half of my hardware doesn't work yet. I'm not disappointed,
'cause I know what I'm doing.

Thank you for pointing this out to me, a real newbie at this 64-bit
operating system. Yes, I managed to burn the download onto a CD, simply by
right-clicking on the icon and setting it to be opened by Nero. I had a lot
of trouble trying to boot the computer with it, but eventually managed to
make it work. Since most of my hardware are two years old, they don't work
properly with the 64-bit system, and I had to make a compromise by having a
dual system installed - the 32-bit and the 64-bit. I am waiting to get hold
of a commercial copy of the 64-bit system, when it comes out into the
market, and hopefully, by that time, many of the hardware will have updates
available for downloading. In the mean time I am looking forward to trying
out Linux.
J.

 

[Alan Walpool]

J> Thank you for pointing this out to me, a real newbie at this
J> 64-bit operating system. Yes, I managed to burn the download onto
J> a CD, simply by right-clicking on the icon and setting it to be
J> opened by Nero. I had a lot of trouble trying to boot the computer
J> with it, but eventually managed to make it work. Since most of my
J> hardware are two years old, they don't work properly with the
J> 64-bit system, and I had to make a compromise by having a dual
J> system installed - the 32-bit and the 64-bit. I am waiting to get
J> hold of a commercial copy of the 64-bit system, when it comes out
J> into the market, and hopefully, by that time, many of the hardware
J> will have updates available for downloading. In the mean time I am
J> looking forward to trying out Linux. J.


Has MS stopped development of the 64 bit Windows version? Curious.

Later,

Alan

 

[Ed]

Has MS stopped development of the 64 bit Windows version? Curious.

Later,

Alan

For Itanium I think they did but not for x86-64.

 

[J.Venning]

I've just spent the last two days playing around with Linux x64.
Installing it on my harddisk was a problem, since various error dialogues
kept creeping up which I had to ignore, and when I finally managed to
install it, my scanner won't work, and my keyboard and mouse couldn't be
programmed, so I was back to square one just like when I installed the XP
x64 - *plus* I couldn't install the Microsoft programs for which I paid a
small fortune. I won't launch into a discussion of Linux vs. Microsoft, but
I would like to know from you folks who are using either one, whether you
managed to download updates to all the hardware you bought before using the
64-bit operating system. Thanks.
J.

 

[Michael Paul]

Hi,

I've just spent the last two days playing around with Linux x64.
Installing it on my harddisk was a problem, since various error
dialogues kept creeping up which I had to ignore, and when I finally
managed to install it,

my scanner won't work, and my keyboard and mouse couldn't be
programmed,

Will the scanner work on XP-64? Will your keyboard and mouse be
programmable on XP-64? If the manufacturers prefer selling new,
XP-64-compliant hardware instead of creating new drivers for existing
hardware, then you'd never have a chance to get them running on XP-64.
But there are chances, that they can get working on Linux. But
unfortunately there is lot of hardware "built for Windows only". Then
you have nearly no chance at all.
Please check www.sane-project.org in order to see, if your scanner is
supported.

I would like to know from you folks who are using either one, whether
you managed to download updates to all the hardware you bought before
using the 64-bit operating system.

Well, not all hardware is supported. There are lots of add-on-cards or
external peripherals, that will only be supported by Windows: the
manufacturers just refuse to support other OS.

Experienced users check linux-compatibility before they buy their
hardware. Also experienced users will be able to compile the device
drivers, if source code is available. That's about Linux.

I for my self know, that most of my hardware would be supported by
Linux, but I'm actually not experienced enough to get them working.
Only an old Elsa ISDN USB device wouldn't work at all. On my new system
I haven't yet installed Linux due to a lack of time.
But if I switched to XP-64, I would have to replace much more hardware:
at least scanner, TV-device, DVB-T-device, the already mentioned
ISDN-device and possibly my soundcard. These components are partly old,
partly from manufacturers, who prefer selling new stuff instead of
supporting old ones (Artec), or from manufacturers who don't exist any
more. And also I'd have to buy some software upgrades.
So I would have to spend about 250EUR in addition to the licence fees
for XP-64 only to have slight, hardly measurable, performance increases
in particular applications. That's not worth the money, and even not
worth the bandwith needed to download XP-64 eval.

Greets,
Michael

 

[J.Venning]

Will the scanner work on XP-64? Will your keyboard and mouse be
programmable on XP-64? If the manufacturers prefer selling new,
XP-64-compliant hardware instead of creating new drivers for existing
hardware, then you'd never have a chance to get them running on XP-64.
But there are chances, that they can get working on Linux. But
unfortunately there is lot of hardware "built for Windows only". Then
you have nearly no chance at all.
Please check www.sane-project.org in order to see, if your scanner is
supported.

The answers to the above are both unfortunately negative - that's why I
wrote that I was back to square one with the Linux. As luck has it, the HP
scanner I have is one of the few which is not supported according to the
above-mentioned website.

Experienced users check linux-compatibility before they buy their
hardware. Also experienced users will be able to compile the device
drivers, if source code is available. That's about Linux.

I don't qualify as one, so I haven't the foggiest about getting the
relevant hardware.

I for my self know, that most of my hardware would be supported by
Linux, but I'm actually not experienced enough to get them working.
Only an old Elsa ISDN USB device wouldn't work at all. On my new system
I haven't yet installed Linux due to a lack of time.
But if I switched to XP-64, I would have to replace much more hardware:
at least scanner, TV-device, DVB-T-device, the already mentioned
ISDN-device and possibly my soundcard. These components are partly old,
partly from manufacturers, who prefer selling new stuff instead of
supporting old ones (Artec), or from manufacturers who don't exist any
more. And also I'd have to buy some software upgrades.
So I would have to spend about 250EUR in addition to the licence fees
for XP-64 only to have slight, hardly measurable, performance increases
in particular applications. That's not worth the money, and even not
worth the bandwith needed to download XP-64 eval.

Again, my sincere thanks for trying to help a newbie on this 64-bit
frontier. I had to go back to my old XP 32-bit to get things working - not
that I don't want to learn something new, but the time spent would be far to
much just to enable me to speed up a few of the programs and system
operations, specially when some of hardware I now have don't function with
64-bit OS. I have no doubt that I will eventually migrate to the 64-bit OS,
and buy a new set of hardware to go along with it. Now, when did you guys
say XP x64 will be on the market?
J.

 

[Michael Paul]

Am Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:54:54 +0100 schrieb J.Venning:

Hi,

Will the scanner work on XP-64? Will your keyboard and mouse be
programmable on XP-64? [...]
But there are chances, that they can get working on Linux. [...]

The answers to the above are both unfortunately negative - that's why I
wrote that I was back to square one with the Linux.

Ok. I see now.

As luck has it, the HP scanner I have is one of the few which is not
supported according to the above-mentioned website.

That's bad, indeed.

I don't qualify as one, so I haven't the foggiest about getting the
relevant hardware.

I am a beginner (just managed to get a basic installation of Mandrake on
some older Machine - nearly easier than to install Windows), but for
my next main OS won't come from Redmond, I choose hardware to buy more
carefully. Just feeding my favourite Search Engine with +$hardware
+Linux will do that job. And if I don't find any positive information,
then I know, what not to buy.
Yes, I have learned now.

[...]

Again, my sincere thanks for trying to help a newbie on this 64-bit
frontier. I had to go back to my old XP 32-bit to get things working

I think, that's a good idea to stick with XP-32. You know that all your
hard- and software will work as intended.

- not that I don't want to learn something new,

The experiences you made up to now, this was not wasted time. You should
have learned a lot when you tried to get entirely unknown OS to work.

but the time spent would be far to
much just to enable me to speed up a few of the programs and system
operations, specially when some of hardware I now have don't function with
64-bit OS.

Yep. That's the point to say "Good Bye" to that 64-bit-hype.

I have no doubt that I will eventually migrate to the 64-bit OS,
and buy a new set of hardware to go along with it.

Why? There is no need. And the restrictions and annoyances provided by
Windows will increase with every new version. But YMMV.

Now, when did you guys
say XP x64 will be on the market?

MS plans to release End of April, 2005:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/57347 (sorry, german language)

Greets,
Michael

 

[J.Venning]

The experiences you made up to now, this was not wasted time. You should
have learned a lot when you tried to get entirely unknown OS to work.

Absolutely. However, I do have an engineering degree, so my mind is more
or less trained to tackle the basic technicality of handling a computer,
even though I am not familiar with the technology of the machine.

Why? There is no need. And the restrictions and annoyances provided by
Windows will increase with every new version. But YMMV.

The very same reason I switched over from the Mac to Windows, and from
Windows 98 to ME, and now XP. Whatever we may think about Microsoft's being
"The Evil Empire", I cannot believe that they would put out a new operating
system without a handful of advantages over an earlier version. Whether or
not these advances and advantages are necessary to what each of us is using
the computer is totally a different matter altogether.

MS plans to release End of April, 2005:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/57347 (sorry, german language)

Vielen dank. That's O.K. my German is not perfect, but I do speak and
read it - I live in Copenhagen, and one can't avoid learning several
languages at once in Hamlet's Kingdom. This has been a truly fruitful cyber
space acquaintance, without which I would not have learned about the x64,
nor Linux. Once gain, thank you.
J.