Window Genuine Notification when its a new computer

[Stephan Rose]

As mentioned before, not ALL are that intuitive.

But for those who choose to steal software and are not intuitive enough to
deal with any potential bump in the road....sounds like a personal problem
to me.

This is a much more correct way of putting it



Hold on!

1. It does not tell them that. It suggests they were a victim of piracy.

So it gets worded a little more nicely...big deal! =)

2. Call support! As I mentioned with the 360 and PS3, I wondered why all
of
a sudden I was staring at a blank screen! Many units were sent back.
They
fixed it. Does that make them a bad product? No. This is a consumer
product people. There are going to be production problems.

Why do people expect perfection from software? Software has NEVER been
perfect.

Counter question, why is it that these days flawed products are accepted as
normal and ok?

And to answer why I expect perfection from software, this is why:

Next time you walk through an elevator door...imagine what would happen if
the software wasn't perfect and the door randomly slams shut on the person
walking through...you'd likely be severely injured or dead. 500lbs door VS
170lbs human = crushed human.

That software *HAS* to be perfect....
Why do I bring this up? Well that is among the things that we do for a
living, write such software for precisely that application.

So yes, seeing how *our* software has to be perfect....I can and do expect
similar quality from other software.

Would I expect it from a 1-man shop somewhere releasing some little desktop
app? No.

But I DO expect it from a multi-billion dollar company with thousands of
employees.

Right, when your toy breaks you call for repair.

My PC generally is not a toy that breaks. Software has no mechanical wear
and tear that can break. It simply in case of Vista has an OS that has more
bugs in it than a swiss cheese has holes.

Oh bull! ;p ;p ;p When you buy a toy and it breaks you get it fixed.
People aren’t this stupid. When your new car breaks you take it back to
the dealer.

I don't buy new cars anymore, I fix them myself =P

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

 

[Justin]

My way or the highway, eh? Why do you think I'm learning Linux?
Good


Whether it's complicated or simple is besides the point.

Not really. Drop XP. No one actually cares. According to the WGA whiners,
it's a hard thing to have to deal with.

Pirated versions already come with the crack.

That comment as it stands is false. Not ALL come with a crack. Most are
exact images of the original DVDs. Most of the cracks out there do NOT
allow for full functionality. Only the most recent BIOS exploits do.

So just imagine how many people tried the crack, couldn't update, said SCREW
THIS and went out and bought it.

Sorry, it's *only* 42%. My bad.

You're still using a number you do not understand. Read my #2 again. % of
PEOPLE. Your 42% is the % of false positives among WGA problems in MS
FORUMS ONLY. Your 42% means nothing in regards to my #2 or this topic.

If I have some work due in one hour it most certainly is!

Calling Dell took 10 minutes.

Translation: Justin can't come up with a credible argument.

Flame bait, nice try.

And you like that?

??? what kind of a dumb question was that?

It's called SPP, of course!

You mean ISS? That's what you called it earlier. You know damn good and
well what we're talking about. WGA/SPP.

Neither, it's called SPP, my mistake.

Oh, ok then. However, everyone is still calling it WGA so get used to it.
Old habits die hard.

 

[Justin]

More than one is too many.

Sorry, but that's just plan absurd. If you think it's wrong of me to say so
then explain to us how you expect perfection from all your products. In
addition, explain how you obtain perfection from them as well.

 

[Alias]

Not really. Drop XP. No one actually cares. According to the WGA
whiners, it's a hard thing to have to deal with.



That comment as it stands is false. Not ALL come with a crack. Most
are exact images of the original DVDs. Most of the cracks out there do
NOT allow for full functionality. Only the most recent BIOS exploits do.

So just imagine how many people tried the crack, couldn't update, said
SCREW THIS and went out and bought it.



You're still using a number you do not understand. Read my #2 again. %
of PEOPLE. Your 42% is the % of false positives among WGA problems in
MS FORUMS ONLY. Your 42% means nothing in regards to my #2 or this topic.

More than one instance is too much.

Calling Dell took 10 minutes.

Why would I call Dell? Why should I have to call *anyone*?

Flame bait, nice try.

Not credible either. No cigar.

??? what kind of a dumb question was that?

Erm, a Yes or No question, even easier to answer than calling India.

You mean ISS? That's what you called it earlier. You know damn good
and well what we're talking about. WGA/SPP.

I made a mistake. What with MS changing names so often, it's hard to
keep up.

Oh, ok then. However, everyone is still calling it WGA so get used to
it. Old habits die hard.

Whatever you call it, it only affects paying customers, not the pirates.

Alias

 

[DanS]

Very true. Thanks for extending into that area of concern. Let's
call them pirate wannbees

Yes, that was a joke



Ugh, I'm going to tread lightly here since I just got slammed by
another poster for "ASKING" how he came to his opinion. So I'm going
to make a note here (of which I shouldn't have to in a civilized
conversation ) that I am NOT disrespecting your opinion.

Well, if someone states what is obviously an OPINION, on any subject,
publicly, I personally feel it's OK to ask from what information that
opinion was formed. They may or may not want to provide those details,
fine, I understand it is there opinion.

But if the statement is made to be a 'statement of fact', whether
agreeing or disagreeing with known 'facts', they would then have an
obligation to explain why and how they came to the conclusion. If they
refuse to back up a 'claimed fact' with known and agreed upon 'facts' and
a reasonable procedure that can show the original opinion can be
validated as factual, well then, that is nothing but an opinion.

With that said, why do you find this appalling? Do you find the
actual ratio between the false and true positives appalling? Or do
you find the NUMBER of people this is happening to appalling? I ask
because with that % we can not determine the amount of people. So
either case seems moot.

Well it would have to be the former. We do not know (and I seriously
doubt MS knows), the total number of installs at any one moment in time.

Of course user that have not had any issues with WGA would not call MS
about it. By the same token, users that did have problems may not call MS
either, but would instead search the web, Usenet, and forums for a
solution.

So you are correct, the first number needed is the percentage of PC's
that fail WGA out of ALL PCs. Then out of the failures, the percentage of
callers to MS, then the percentage of false positives.

Just for example (not talking about driver updates here)......

100% of PCs
5 % of PC's fail WGA (too high ?)
20% call MS (too high I think)
(Now, we're at 1% of total PC's)
Out of that 40% are false positives.

So, _based on MS callers only_, with the example numbers above, a false
positive would be .4% of ALL PC users.

Of course we know that's not true, because my math says 5% failed.

MS will NEVER provide ACTUAL accurate/verifyable numbers so users will
never REALLY know.

Regards,

DanS

 

[Alias]

Sorry, but that's just plan absurd.

Until it happens to you.

If you think it's wrong of me to
say so then explain to us how you expect perfection from all your
products. In addition, explain how you obtain perfection from them as
well.

My FTP_WS95 software has been working perfectly since 1995 on
Win95/98/2000 and XP. If it doesn't work perfectly, then MS should scrap
it until it does or, better yet, scrap it all together. Of course, that
would entail MS caring for its paying customers and ceasing to demand
that they prove they're not thieves every time they reinstall or upgrade
their hardware or software.

Like I said, the Ubuntu forums are getting flooded with subject lines
like "Newbie Ubuntu user" and "I'm new to Ubuntu" and 100% of them are
doing it because they are fed up with MS' supercilious "anti piracy"
programs.

Alias

 

[Richard Urban]

Numbers, seeing as how you want to quote complete articles. Give links that
we can check also. Out of more than 100 computers I maintain I have not seen
WGA kick in even once.

Does that mean it doesn't happen? Of course not. When people call me (with
computer I don't maintain), I tell them to go to the WGA web site or call
Microsoft. The problem is promptly identified and rectified, sometimes not
to their liking.

One fella asked me to come and take care of the problem, as Microsoft
wouldn't. When arriving I asked him for proof of ownership. He couldn't
produce it. I left. I don't work on cracked or pirated systems.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[Justin]

True but the general majority of people that *knowingly* run illegal
copies
however are resourceful enough.

I'm not referring to people here who got scammed on EBay. They are not
theives, they are simply clueless. =)

Much agreed.

Things like that I do not have the time for and would be the last thing
I'd
ever want to worry about.

I 100% understand where you are coming from. I also 100% agree. There's
also another side that needs to be dealt with and that's what is within
reason?

Check this out:

Both yourself and alias mention that if you have work that needs to get done
within a certain time limit then MS is "shutting you down". Ok. Now let's
look at this. I'm at home and I need to remote into work to get this "work
done". Oh NO! The internet is down! Verizon has shut me down! Who knows
who else they shut down? I would LOVE to see what the average downtime is
and the average amount of customers per month that need to deal with it just
with VERIZON ALONE. I'm narrowing it down to one company to be fair.

Remember, mine was 10 minutes with MS. I've been shut down by Verizon for
over 24 hours at times. However, it's usually just a few hours.

I'm going to guess that MS customers are WAY AHEAD of the game versus
Verizon customers when it comes to be inconvenienced.

I don't hear people shouting HOW DARE VERIZON!!!! THEY CANT DO THIS TO
ME!!! I PAY THEM!!!!

It seems to me that computers have become so common place that people
believe they better work "or else". Or else what? Get a refund.

People have forgotten they are dealing with a consumer product.

Why are operating systems subject to such scrutiny? Nothing else is.

 

[Justin]

One fella asked me to come and take care of the problem, as Microsoft
wouldn't. When arriving I asked him for proof of ownership. He couldn't
produce it. I left. I don't work on cracked or pirated systems.

Exactly! I suspect these are also the same people in this NG that claim
they called MS, got transferred to India, then harassed for HOURS and
finally were told no.

 

[Justin]

Why would I call Dell? Why should I have to call *anyone*?

Because nothing in life is perfect.

Not credible either. No cigar.

Flame bait, nice try.

Erm, a Yes or No question, even easier to answer than calling India.

Your question is pointless. But I'll answer it anyway. No, I found no joy
in it. But you know what? It was 10 minutes and MANY OTHER things in life
waste my time more then that. Which is why I don’t whine about a BUG in a
software app.

In fact! Here we go!!!

MS has wasted 10 minutes of my life because of WGA. Well guess what? A
linux distro wasted 2 HOURS of my life while I tried to install a video
card.

Over linux, WGA is a blessing to have to deal with.

Whatever you call it, it only affects paying customers, not the pirates.

Really? A bug affects paying customers? Sorry, but that's kind of a no
brainier.

It seems to me that you've run out of excuses to find WGA SUCH A PAIN so now
you're shifting to some skewed point that pirates are not affected by WGA?
Which we already discussed DOES affect them to a certain extent.

You also fail to keep in mind that there are plenty of NON pirates out there
that did not realize they had stolen software and are now getting fixed up.

 

[Stephan Rose]

Check this out:

Both yourself and alias mention that if you have work that needs to get
done
within a certain time limit then MS is "shutting you down". Ok. Now
let's
look at this. I'm at home and I need to remote into work to get this
"work
done". Oh NO! The internet is down! Verizon has shut me down! Who
knows
who else they shut down? I would LOVE to see what the average downtime is
and the average amount of customers per month that need to deal with it
just
with VERIZON ALONE. I'm narrowing it down to one company to be fair.

Remember, mine was 10 minutes with MS. I've been shut down by Verizon for
over 24 hours at times. However, it's usually just a few hours.

That'd be beyond enough reason for me to switch providers.

My uptime with T-Online: 99.99%

The only downtime I can think of was a few months ago during a major but
short power outage.

I'm going to guess that MS customers are WAY AHEAD of the game versus
Verizon customers when it comes to be inconvenienced.

I don't hear people shouting HOW DARE VERIZON!!!! THEY CANT DO THIS TO
ME!!! I PAY THEM!!!!

It seems to me that computers have become so common place that people
believe they better work "or else". Or else what? Get a refund.

People have forgotten they are dealing with a consumer product.

Why are operating systems subject to such scrutiny? Nothing else is.

Sure it is, maybe not in the US...but in the rest of the world. It does
appear to be though, from my own impression of things, that people in the
US are more likely to just "accept things" as they are...and not do
something about it.

Doesn't fly all that well in europe though. People over here tend to not
simply accept things if they don't like them.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

 

[Richard Urban]

You have to understand that you are debating a person who posts using
Windows XP. He tried Linux for about a day or two, but went back to posting
with XP. He spends so much time here that he **CAN NOT** learn Vista. He
doesn't have the time.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[Justin]

Well, if someone states what is obviously an OPINION, on any subject,
publicly, I personally feel it's OK to ask from what information that
opinion was formed. They may or may not want to provide those details,
fine, I understand it is there opinion.

But if the statement is made to be a 'statement of fact', whether
agreeing or disagreeing with known 'facts', they would then have an
obligation to explain why and how they came to the conclusion. If they
refuse to back up a 'claimed fact' with known and agreed upon 'facts' and
a reasonable procedure that can show the original opinion can be
validated as factual, well then, that is nothing but an opinion.

Damn, why can't more people feel this way? I agree 100% I've said that
many times myself.

I even use this example:

"I hate the moon because I hate square objects"

Yeah, he/she better be prepared to explain him/herself. You can hate the
moon all you want but how in the heck did you come up with that?

MS will NEVER provide ACTUAL accurate/verifyable numbers so users will
never REALLY know.

I'll bet top dollar on that!

 

[Justin]

But for those who choose to steal software and are not intuitive enough to
deal with any potential bump in the road....sounds like a personal problem
to me.

Amen to that!

So it gets worded a little more nicely...big deal! =)




Counter question, why is it that these days flawed products are accepted
as
normal and ok?

Not accepted....Dealt with. The reason it's not accepted is because the
vendors STRIVE to make it better. If your DirecTV DVR breaks you call
DirecTV. If your internet goes down you call Charter, if your car breaks
you take it to the dealer, if your phone stops working you call Verizon, if
your computer breaks you call Dell, if your software breaks you call
Microsoft, if.....

I think the one thing that everyone can agree on is that WGA needs work. I
haven't read one post that states other wise.

What people question are those who claim Vista never should have been
released in the first place and how DARE MS even have WGA.

Hell, look at UAC! That wastes WAY MORE time then WGA ever does yet people
don't feel as strongly about it because there's no question of someones
"rights" being checked. UAC doesn't keep you from stealing it and UAC
doesn't call home. Instead everyone agrees it's a pain and waits for a fix.
WGA is no different in MY OPINION Gotta put that last part in there

And to answer why I expect perfection from software, this is why:

Next time you walk through an elevator door...imagine what would happen if
the software wasn't perfect and the door randomly slams shut on the person
walking through...you'd likely be severely injured or dead. 500lbs door VS
170lbs human = crushed human.

That software *HAS* to be perfect....

I GOT YA! We understand that we can’t expect perfection from the
software thus we implement backup devices to assure consumer safety. In
other words, have a *"backup"* plan

Why do I bring this up? Well that is among the things that we do for a
living, write such software for precisely that application.

So yes, seeing how *our* software has to be perfect....I can and do expect
similar quality from other software.

Fair enough. I just hope you have the same exact expectation from
everything else. Otherwise it wouldn't seem fair.

Would I expect it from a 1-man shop somewhere releasing some little
desktop
app? No.

But I DO expect it from a multi-billion dollar company with thousands of
employees.

Multi-billion? Back to cars

 

[Alias]

You have to understand that you are debating a person who posts using
Windows XP. He tried Linux for about a day or two, but went back to
posting with XP. He spends so much time here that he **CAN NOT** learn
Vista. He doesn't have the time.

Um, I am NOT posting from XP. Look at the headers. I am using Thunder
Bird but Thunder Bird is available for Linux Ubuntu.

Alias

 

[Justin]

Until it happens to you.

Hello? Where have you been? It DID happen to me. 10 minutes, remember?

My FTP_WS95 software has been working perfectly since 1995 on
Win95/98/2000 and XP.

I said ALL YOUR PRODUCTS.

If it doesn't work perfectly, then MS should scrap it until it does or,
better yet, scrap it all together.

If people waited until software was perfect then we wouldn't have ANY
SOFTWARE! Not even your precious Linux.

Of course, that would entail MS caring for its paying customers and
ceasing to demand that they prove they're not thieves every time they
reinstall or upgrade their hardware or software.

Hum....You seem to take offense to the thief part???

Like I said, the Ubuntu forums are getting flooded with subject lines like
"Newbie Ubuntu user" and "I'm new to Ubuntu" and 100% of them are doing it
because they are fed up with MS' supercilious "anti piracy" programs.

100% eh? So no one comes from OSX? Hum.... Nor are any of them new to
computers? Hum....

 

[Alias]

Because nothing in life is perfect.

Not a good reason to call and prove I am not a thief. What ever happened
to presumed innocent until proven guilty?

Flame bait, nice try.

LOL! My translation stands.

Your question is pointless. But I'll answer it anyway. No, I found no
joy in it. But you know what? It was 10 minutes and MANY OTHER things
in life waste my time more then that. Which is why I don’t whine about
a BUG in a software app.

In fact! Here we go!!!

MS has wasted 10 minutes of my life because of WGA. Well guess what? A
linux distro wasted 2 HOURS of my life while I tried to install a video
card.

Really? How strange. No problem with any of my hardware after installing
Ubuntu. A friend installed it on an old computer with an ATI video card
and no problems with his hardware either.

Over linux, WGA is a blessing to have to deal with.

If you think it's OK for MS to virtually yank you out of your car, throw
you face down on the hood and frisk you, you must be into S&M.

Really? A bug affects paying customers? Sorry, but that's kind of a no
brainier.

Yep, the program and all its bugs only affects paying customers, not the
pirates.

It seems to me that you've run out of excuses to find WGA SUCH A PAIN so
now you're shifting to some skewed point that pirates are not affected
by WGA? Which we already discussed DOES affect them to a certain extent.

To no extent.

You also fail to keep in mind that there are plenty of NON pirates out
there that did not realize they had stolen software and are now getting
fixed up.

They are affected, true, but they aren't pirates; they're paying
customers. True pirates are not affected one iota. On the Spanish
newsgroups, one can see that the cracks for *everything* MS tries to do
are out in ONE day.

Fact is that MS wants the paying customers to help them with their cat
and mouse game with the pirates. This is not right no matter how you try
to spin it.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Hello? Where have you been? It DID happen to me. 10 minutes, remember?



I said ALL YOUR PRODUCTS.


If people waited until software was perfect then we wouldn't have ANY
SOFTWARE! Not even your precious Linux.


Hum....You seem to take offense to the thief part???



100% eh? So no one comes from OSX? Hum.... Nor are any of them new to
computers? Hum....

Justin,

MS made billions with 95/98/NT and 2000. All the anti piracy programs do
it make paying customers angry. This is stupid no matter how you try to
spin it.

Alias

 

[caver1]

Not really. Drop XP. No one actually cares. According to the WGA
whiners, it's a hard thing to have to deal with.



That comment as it stands is false. Not ALL come with a crack. Most
are exact images of the original DVDs. Most of the cracks out there do
NOT allow for full functionality. Only the most recent BIOS exploits do.

So just imagine how many people tried the crack, couldn't update, said
SCREW THIS and went out and bought it.



You're still using a number you do not understand. Read my #2 again. %
of PEOPLE. Your 42% is the % of false positives among WGA problems in
MS FORUMS ONLY. Your 42% means nothing in regards to my #2 or this topic.

If WGA was so good then the number of false positives should be around
1or2%. I would refuse a medical test that has a 42% false positive.

 

[Stephan Rose]

I think the one thing that everyone can agree on is that WGA needs work.
I haven't read one post that states other wise.

What people question are those who claim Vista never should have been
released in the first place and how DARE MS even have WGA.

Hell, look at UAC! That wastes WAY MORE time then WGA ever does yet
people don't feel as strongly about it because there's no question of
someones
"rights" being checked. UAC doesn't keep you from stealing it and UAC
doesn't call home. Instead everyone agrees it's a pain and waits for a
fix.
WGA is no different in MY OPINION Gotta put that last part in there

Well in *my opinion* , UAC is no better or worse than WGA. I find both of
them to be equally bad right up there with DRM.

See? I'm fair and equal across the board. =)

I GOT YA! We understand that we can’t expect perfection from the
software thus we implement backup devices to assure consumer safety. In
other words, have a *"backup"* plan

To be honest, there isn't much of a backup plan in those doors. There is
absolutely nothing, except its own software, to prevent the controller from
going wide open throttle on those doors if it wanted to. Makes ya feel good
walking through doesn't it? =)

Fair enough. I just hope you have the same exact expectation from
everything else. Otherwise it wouldn't seem fair.

Most surely do.

Multi-billion? Back to cars

Well you know you don't have to buy Ford, Chevy or Chrysler. Better
alternatives do exist

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
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