Vista or XP

[mr t]

I have not upgraded to Vista yet, b/c of the bad reports I get from
people using Vista. Microsoft can believe it or not, their Vista
product has not been received positively, and I hear many people now
want to buy Macs. Now, the question I am asking here is, why are
people not willing to embrace Vista?

1. Fear of CHANGE? wanting to stick to what worked before like XP
2. Outdated hardware? older computers not able to provide as much
memory as vista requires.
3. Vista is just a bad product.

Whatever the reason is, microsoft should hear these cries from their
customers seriously and try to address these issues. Just saying
"other people have had no problems", is just not good enough. I've
seen three different people who purchased computers recently asking me
if I still have an XP CD. only to tell them, it wouldn't work for them
anyway b/c they have to validate.

I would like any take from the people on this group.

 

[C.B.]

I have not upgraded to Vista yet, b/c of the bad reports I get from
people using Vista. Microsoft can believe it or not, their Vista
product has not been received positively, and I hear many people now
want to buy Macs. Now, the question I am asking here is, why are
people not willing to embrace Vista?

1. Fear of CHANGE? wanting to stick to what worked before like XP
2. Outdated hardware? older computers not able to provide as much
memory as vista requires.
3. Vista is just a bad product.

Whatever the reason is, microsoft should hear these cries from their
customers seriously and try to address these issues. Just saying
"other people have had no problems", is just not good enough. I've
seen three different people who purchased computers recently asking me
if I still have an XP CD. only to tell them, it wouldn't work for them
anyway b/c they have to validate.

I would like any take from the people on this group.

Mr. t,

If your current machine is running properly and meeting your
expectations I see no need for you to upgrade to Vista.
If you decide to buy a new machine with the necessary hardware for the
particular edition of Vista you desire you should have no problems. The only
drawback is the learning curve that comes with any new product.
In any event, the key word is "research". It is up to you to determine
the necessary hardware and whether or not your particular desired software
is compatible with Vista.
Your choice of computer vendors is just as important as the software
contained on the computer. A computer, like any product, is no better than
the support behind it. Some are better than others.
I haven't had any major problems with Vista Home Premium and Vista
Ultimate. The few problems I experienced were overcome by seeking help from
the knowledgeable contributors in these discussion groups.
Personally, I feel Vista is superior to XP in almost every regard, but
this is only my personal opinion based upon the experience of using Vista
since the day it was released.
You also need to keep in mind the fact that the biggest cause of
problems with a computer lies between the computer and the chair. If you're
an experienced user you should have no problems.
As far as Mac is concerned it's a good OS, but like most Apple products
it is overpriced and I refuse to pay the money. The various Linux based
operating systems can't run the programs I desire so Linux is also out of
consideration for the time being.
The choice is entirely yours alone and you shouldn't be criticized for
your choice.

C.B.

 

[Larry Davis]

Mr. t,

If your current machine is running properly and meeting your
expectations I see no need for you to upgrade to Vista.
If you decide to buy a new machine with the necessary hardware for the
particular edition of Vista you desire you should have no problems. The only
drawback is the learning curve that comes with any new product.
In any event, the key word is "research". It is up to you to determine
the necessary hardware and whether or not your particular desired software
is compatible with Vista.
Your choice of computer vendors is just as important as the software
contained on the computer. A computer, like any product, is no better than
the support behind it. Some are better than others.
I haven't had any major problems with Vista Home Premium and Vista
Ultimate. The few problems I experienced were overcome by seeking help from
the knowledgeable contributors in these discussion groups.
Personally, I feel Vista is superior to XP in almost every regard, but
this is only my personal opinion based upon the experience of using Vista
since the day it was released.
You also need to keep in mind the fact that the biggest cause of
problems with a computer lies between the computer and the chair. If you're
an experienced user you should have no problems.
As far as Mac is concerned it's a good OS, but like most Apple products
it is overpriced and I refuse to pay the money. The various Linux based
operating systems can't run the programs I desire so Linux is also out of
consideration for the time being.
The choice is entirely yours alone and you shouldn't be criticized for
your choice.

C.B.

I've been using Vista Home Edition Premium on a brand new Dell XPS 420 computer since Jan. 10, 2008, and I still rue the day I got a new computer with Windows on it. If it's such a great improvement then why do I have so many issues with Vista that I never had with XP?

Vista continually stopped recognizing my wireless Microsoft keyboard and mouse. Even after installing Service Pack 1, I found no improvement, so I gave up and went with a wired mouse (They've almost stopped making those it seems.) I couldn't find one made by Microsoft at Office Max so I bought one made by Logitech, installed it and updated the software. Now after the computer has been on all day, the mouse tends to resist moving the cursor across the screen. Also I have been unable to use sleep mode in Vista because if the computer has been in sleep for more than a couple of hours it doesn't wake up by using the mouse or keyboard. It did this with wired or wireless mice. I've had to turn it off at the power button so many times I've quit even trying to use sleep mode.

It still stops recognizing the mouse ever so often. I get an "unknown device attached" error message until I reboot. It's plugged into the USB port on the back of the computer and unplugging and replugging is another trick that doesn't work with Vista.

I have several external hard drives attached and I've had to set up the view I want on each drive. Setting them on drive C does not set the view details for the other drives. So you have to chose details and then go to "Organize/Folder and Search Options/View/Apply to folders" for each drive. Even then it tends to forget the settings you gave it.

I don't find anything about Vista to be intuitive. I have to go to the "help and support" function for almost anything I want to find. Just to find "system restore" you have to right click 'my computer'/properties/advance system settings/system protection/system restore; or you can go through start/programs/accessories/system tools/system restore. Since system restore is something you should use to create a new restore point before making almost any changes, including installing new software, which includes the endless updates from Microsoft, then it should be located front and center, not buried behind all those layers of folders.

Ever week brings a new fight with user account control. Since I have a lot of files that were imported from my XP computer, I often find I can't delete them when I want to. Turning off UAC doesn't help that in the least. You have to find a way to "take ownership" of the files and Vista doesn't give it up easily. Even being the only user of the computer and always logging in as administrator doesn't end those fights. I'm constantly dealing with "you don't have permission to do that" messages. That's when you're ready to throw the whole thing out the window....

Where Microsoft went so wrong was in designing one operating system for both business and home use. I think all those levels of security make sense in a corporate use situation where you don't want every Dilbert sitting in a cubicle monkeying around with system settings, but for a home user, they are intolerable.

To end on a positive note, Windows Mail is a big improvement over Outlook Express. At least the built in spam fighter seems to be very efficient. I still got tripped up there though. When importing email messages from one computer to another using Outlook Express you don't need the "folders.dbx" because the program will create a new one anyway. But it's impossible to import your Outlook Express messages into Windows Mail without having "folders.dbx" in the folder with your messages. Not knowing that in advance, and knowing it wasn't needed when going from OE to OE, I deleted that folder, so I've never been able to import my old messages into Windows Mail. My work around has been to import them into Mozilla Thunderbird and then use that app whenever I need to find an old email.

larrydonline

 

[Not Me]

I can't argue with most of your points.
I have people ask me several times a week to 'fix' their Vista machine (all
factory installed).
They simply do not like the changes that have been made.
XP was more intuitive and easier to manage for an average user.
MS can claim increased security all they want, I don't see it and customers
complain about things that 'don't work right'.
I make sure to tell them, they work just the way MS designed them to... but
I have never figured out the WHY.
Pissing customers off is not good policy in my experience...

I'm sorry Mr. Customer, but we removed the keyless entry and power windows
from you vehicle so it would be more secure.
We added an ignition interlock that requires you to insert your VALID
drivers license before the vehicle will start.
And you must produce your biometric ID card, current registration and title
every time you want to add gas, oil, antifreeze, washer fluid...
all passengers must be approved by the manufacturer

 

[C.B.]

I've been using Vista Home Edition Premium on a brand new Dell XPS 420
computer since Jan. 10, 2008, and I still rue the day I got a new computer
with Windows on it. If it's such a great improvement then why do I have so
many issues with Vista that I never had with XP?

I have three other computers running XP. I don't have any more problems
with Vista than I do with XP. You can contact Dell for assistance or you can
post to these discussion groups. I would suggest you ask your questions here
instead of going to Dell.

Vista continually stopped recognizing my wireless Microsoft keyboard and
mouse. Even after installing Service Pack 1, I found no improvement, so I
gave up and went with a wired mouse (They've almost stopped making those
it seems.) I couldn't find one made by Microsoft at Office Max so I bought
one made by Logitech, installed it and updated the software. Now after the
computer has been on all day, the mouse tends to resist moving the cursor
across the screen. Also I have been unable to use sleep mode in Vista
because if the computer has been in sleep for more than a couple of hours
it doesn't wake up by using the mouse or keyboard. It did this with wired
or wireless mice. I've had to turn it off at the power button so many
times I've quit even trying to use sleep mode.

I am currently using a Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse. I have
also used my Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse. I have not and do not
have any problems with them. My four computers are Dells and I purchase all
peripherals from Dell, including all my Microsoft hardware. When I have had
problems with Microsoft hardware I call Microsoft. If they cannot solve the
problem they replace the product, no questions asked, regardless of where
you purchase it. You have 90 days of free support for Microsoft hardware
products beginning with the first call you make in relation to that product.

It still stops recognizing the mouse ever so often. I get an "unknown
device attached" error message until I reboot. It's plugged into the USB
port on the back of the computer and unplugging and replugging is another
trick that doesn't work with Vista.

I've never had these problems with Vista.

I have several external hard drives attached and I've had to set up the
view I want on each drive. Setting them on drive C does not set the view
details for the other drives. So you have to chose details and then go to
"Organize/Folder and Search Options/View/Apply to folders" for each drive.
Even then it tends to forget the settings you gave it.

I have two 500GB external hard drives connected. I don't experience any
of these problems.

I don't find anything about Vista to be intuitive. I have to go to the
"help and support" function for almost anything I want to find. Just to
find "system restore" you have to right click 'my
computer'/properties/advance system settings/system protection/system
restore; or you can go through start/programs/accessories/system
tools/system restore. Since system restore is something you should use to
create a new restore point before making almost any changes, including
installing new software, which includes the endless updates from
Microsoft, then it should be located front and center, not buried behind
all those layers of folders.

Right click on System Restore and pin it to your start menu or put a
shortcut to it on your desktop. It's as simple as that.

Ever week brings a new fight with user account control. Since I have a lot
of files that were imported from my XP computer, I often find I can't
delete them when I want to. Turning off UAC doesn't help that in the
least. You have to find a way to "take ownership" of the files and Vista
doesn't give it up easily. Even being the only user of the computer and
always logging in as administrator doesn't end those fights. I'm
constantly dealing with "you don't have permission to do that" messages.
That's when you're ready to throw the whole thing out the window....

I rarely see a UAC prompt anymore. I don't have any problems reading or
deleting a file if I "take ownership" of them. Taking ownership of a file or
folder is easy to accomplish if you know how to do it.

Where Microsoft went so wrong was in designing one operating system for
both business and home use. I think all those levels of security make
sense in a corporate use situation where you don't want every Dilbert
sitting in a cubicle monkeying around with system settings, but for a home
user, they are intolerable.

The security levels are incorporated into Vista for your benefit and
protection. I've never disabled UAC or Protected Mode and they don't cause
me any problems. There are ways to disable UAC for your trusted
applications.

To end on a positive note, Windows Mail is a big improvement over Outlook
Express. At least the built in spam fighter seems to be very efficient. I
still got tripped up there though. When importing email messages from one
computer to another using Outlook Express you don't need the "folders.dbx"
because the program will create a new one anyway. But it's impossible to
import your Outlook Express messages into Windows Mail without having
"folders.dbx" in the folder with your messages. Not knowing that in
advance, and knowing it wasn't needed when going from OE to OE, I deleted
that folder, so I've never been able to import my old messages into
Windows Mail. My work around has been to import them into Mozilla
Thunderbird and then use that app whenever I need to find an old email.

Windows Mail is a dead horse. Microsoft has abandoned it in favor of
Windows Live Mail. You should try WLM and see if it is better for you.

You can overcome your problems if you post the problem to the relevant
newsgroup. There are many knowledgeable people here who volunteer their time
for the purpose of helping you. Unfortunately, I am not one of them. Post
your questions and you will receive their assistance. That is how I overcame
my Vista problems.
I hope you solve all your problems and learn to enjoy Vista.

larrydonline

C.B.

 

[Marc]

I can't argue with most of your points.
I have people ask me several times a week to 'fix' their Vista machine
(all factory installed).
They simply do not like the changes that have been made.
XP was more intuitive and easier to manage for an average user.
MS can claim increased security all they want, I don't see it and
customers complain about things that 'don't work right'.
I make sure to tell them, they work just the way MS designed them to...
but I have never figured out the WHY.
Pissing customers off is not good policy in my experience...

I'm sorry Mr. Customer, but we removed the keyless entry and power windows
from you vehicle so it would be more secure.
We added an ignition interlock that requires you to insert your VALID
drivers license before the vehicle will start.
And you must produce your biometric ID card, current registration and
title every time you want to add gas, oil, antifreeze, washer fluid...
all passengers must be approved by the manufacturer

I don't need any biometric stuff to use my Vista laptop!
This sort of nonsense fueled by Anti-MS media is just untrue. If your going
to make an analogy then at least make it an intelligent one.
All you need to do it turn off Aero,UAC and some services and you've got
yourself a damn XP machine ! Anyone who reinstalls XP on a home machine is
just stupid and doesn't understand computers. I can understand a business
wanting to standardise on one OS, but for a home user, Vista is a
no-brainer.

Vista = more stable that XP. More Secure.

Anyone who used Mac OS X 10, 10.1 or 10.2 will know it was a LOT worse that
Vista in terms of speed. I find Vista blindingly fast on my modestly specced
laptop (2GB RAM, 2Ghz Dual Core, NVndia 8600 GFX chip).
I find XP on the similar spec machine at work slower (maybe that's because
of the roaming profile and domain stuff??)

Marc

 

[Not Me]

I don't need any biometric stuff to use my Vista laptop!
This sort of nonsense fueled by Anti-MS media is just untrue. If your
going to make an analogy then at least make it an intelligent one.
All you need to do it turn off Aero,UAC and some services and you've got
yourself a damn XP machine ! Anyone who reinstalls XP on a home machine is
just stupid and doesn't understand computers. I can understand a business
wanting to standardise on one OS, but for a home user, Vista is a
no-brainer.

Vista = more stable that XP. More Secure.

Anyone who used Mac OS X 10, 10.1 or 10.2 will know it was a LOT worse
that Vista in terms of speed. I find Vista blindingly fast on my modestly
specced laptop (2GB RAM, 2Ghz Dual Core, NVndia 8600 GFX chip).
I find XP on the similar spec machine at work slower (maybe that's because
of the roaming profile and domain stuff??)

Marc

I don't have any problems with stability or security on my XP machines.
I do understand computers, I have been using them daily for nearly 40 years.
I just plain don't like the way MS did Vista.
I use it every day, in addition to XP, and every time I sit down in front of
a Vista machine I mutter.
Changing things to improve them is great, but in Vista, I don't see or feel
anything improved.
It is just rearranged and locked down.
If I wanted protected from myself, I'd hire a bodyguard or check myself into
the psycho ward.

 

[Gordon]

I use it every day, in addition to XP, and every time I sit down in front
of a Vista machine I mutter.

I seem to recall a great many people have been doing that ever since Windows
3.1 - it's nothing new!

 

[Gaza]

I don't have any problems with stability or security on my XP machines.

I do understand computers, I have been using them daily for nearly 40
years.
I just plain don't like the way MS did Vista.
I use it every day, in addition to XP, and every time I sit down in front
of a Vista machine I mutter.
Changing things to improve them is great, but in Vista, I don't see or
feel anything improved.
It is just rearranged and locked down.
If I wanted protected from myself, I'd hire a bodyguard or check myself
into the psycho ward.

Why did you not stay with Windows98 then, after all XP was crap when it came
out!!!

 

[Canuck57]

I don't need any biometric stuff to use my Vista laptop!
This sort of nonsense fueled by Anti-MS media is just untrue. If your
going to make an analogy then at least make it an intelligent one.
All you need to do it turn off Aero,UAC and some services and you've got
yourself a damn XP machine ! Anyone who reinstalls XP on a home machine is
just stupid and doesn't understand computers. I can understand a business
wanting to standardise on one OS, but for a home user, Vista is a
no-brainer.

Vista = more stable that XP. More Secure.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;128348660;fp;16;fpid;1

Could be a false sense of security. Where was the UAC when it was recently
pawned 2 own at a hackfest?

The OS is no substitute for a good internet FW/router.

 

[Gordon]

The OS is no substitute for a good internet FW/router.

lets face it - NO Windows OS is any good without a goof firewall or NATS
router....

 

[Canuck57]

lets face it - NO Windows OS is any good without a goof firewall or NATS
router....

I built mine. Watches what goes out too. Interesting.

 

[upyurbuttoo]

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;128348660;fp;16;fpid;1

Could be a false sense of security. Where was the UAC when it was
recently pawned 2 own at a hackfest?

You should learn how to read anf then how to comprehend what you read. Oh I
forgot you're a moron.

 

[Not Me]

Why did you not stay with Windows98 then, after all XP was crap when it
came out!!!

I never said XP was crap when it came out, I liked the improvements over
W98, ME, NT and W2K.
Vista just doesn't show me anything I didn't already have, other than added
aggravation.