I am amazed!!

[Tiberius]

I didn't come into this group for a few days, and now saw that people
are saying exactly the same things I have been crying out for so long, and
have been
called a troll. I wonder as time goes by and more people realize the truth,
how with the fanatic vista lovers hang on to their misconceptions?

For example this post:
Subject: why why why from Mas Despacio

why did microsoft have to unleash the dinosaur that is vista on an
unsuspecting world...

people everyday rely on computers for their work, but sadly when they cannot
do half the work they used to because vista runs so slowly, they begin to
get
discruntled, disillusioned and downright angry that they have been conned
into installing a product that clearly isn't fit for the purpose that is was
sold for. This in the eyes of the law is fraud.


or this one:
Subject: Fear from David Dickinson

BEGIN OPINION>
I gotta tell ya', I've made a lot of money from using and supporting
Microsoft products over the last 28 years. But now, I'm afraid.

The Vista user interface has many, many counter-intuitive features,
including some that through creating confusion will cause disasters,
including loss of data. In fact, Explorer windows may show inaccurate
information. Vista doesn't play well with other machines on a network.
Administering it can be tedious and time-consuming when compared to previous
OS's. A lot of stuff either doesn't work the way you expect or just doesn't
work at all. It's been dumbed down in some areas so much that
administrators can't do some things they need to do

Or others asking how to get rid of Vista and revert back to XP...



I laugh at the crude attempts of the fanatic vista lovers in here to excuse
vista
somehow, by the classic "it works on mine therefore you are doing something
wrong"
or "since we dont see people complaining, they dont exist"

These excuses are laughable... and are wrong ... I have seen many machines
crawl with vista.. not ONE
was faster with vista than with XP. Also EVERY user I have talked to (accept
the crazy fanboys in here)
absolutely hate vista and want XP back! What else I have seen is the more
knowledgeable the user the more he wants XP back!
Only a amature casual user would like vista, because it has a fresh look..
people who really use computers for work don't!

 

[Jay]

I didn't come into this group for a few days,

You were doing well

 

[Tiberius]

I know.. I just stepped in to say that now that I stopped kicking vista in
the cybernuts
there are others that are doing it for me...

of course there are the clueless vista fans that dont have a clue about why
the rest of the world is complaining... who will support their pricey OS
util death.

Dont worry.. I m fed up with telling the truth, educating da vistaboys,
explaining to the people in here, and being insulted and called a troll and
other names...

 

[Jay]

I know.. I just stepped in to say that now that I stopped kicking vista in
the cybernuts
there are others that are doing it for me...

of course there are the clueless vista fans that dont have a clue about
why the rest of the world is complaining... who will support their pricey
OS util death.

Dont worry.. I m fed up with telling the truth, educating da vistaboys,
explaining to the people in here, and being insulted and called a troll
and other names...

$5 says you won't stop (who'll hold the money?).
I've only been here a few days and already recognise you as one of those
tiresome people who goes out of their way to find an MS forum purely to mock
MS users.
I'm lucky, mines free via MSDN (work paid) but were I to shell out hard
earned $ to be mocked I imagine I wouldn't be best pleased.

Jay

 

[Tiberius]

to mock

MS users.

I am an MS user myself, and a grand supporter of Microsoft unless they make
some exceptionally bad product, and in that case I CANT say its ok.
I can guess that you can guess what product I think is a flop...

The mock is not true... I respect everyone.. by my calling vistaboys stupid
im trying to rock their brains a little bit, perhaps knock some sense into
them.
In a sense I am not making fun of them nor insulting them. I am saying the
truth in a blant way.
If someone uses and actually likes vista, there MUST be going something
wrong
in their heads. Its like me seeing people eating trash pie and loving it...
what do you want me to do, shrug it off?

It might not be exactly that they see all its problems, yet think Vista is
great.. it may be that what they are doing on the OS is not creating the
problems... If I have Vista sitting there with a few apps, and not really
stretch it to its limits, then it wont show its shortcomings.
Also for it to work smothly I would have to have super fast hardware.. many
people in here use vista on new computers. That is ok... but I am thinking
about the rest of the world me me or them.
In that case if they say vista is great, they are indeed ignorant of its
problems. Problems that show themselves in a reality that "is a jungle out
there"
Is ignorance a sin? Think about that a little.

Do you want me to know the truth and not speak it? So vistaboys don't like
me.. ok.. im not running for president. But I do care about people....

Think of this as kind of a "rough caring" or in other words I care deeply
about
the welfare of everyone.. my methods are just a little off the wall.

 

[Jay]

to mock

I am an MS user myself, and a grand supporter of Microsoft unless they
make some exceptionally bad product, and in that case I CANT say its ok.
I can guess that you can guess what product I think is a flop...

The mock is not true... I respect everyone.. by my calling vistaboys
stupid
im trying to rock their brains a little bit, perhaps knock some sense into
them.
In a sense I am not making fun of them nor insulting them. I am saying the
truth in a blant way.
If someone uses and actually likes vista, there MUST be going something
wrong

Against my better judgement about feeding trolls.....
Why must something be wrong? Am I about to experience an OS meltdown at any
second?
My OS is working perfectly and I have no plans to switch back. This is wrong
in your eyes?

in their heads. Its like me seeing people eating trash pie and loving
it... what do you want me to do, shrug it off?

Yes. They are loving it. It is their business. Who made you Nanny?

It might not be exactly that they see all its problems, yet think Vista is
great.. it may be that what they are doing on the OS is not creating the
problems... If I have Vista sitting there with a few apps, and not really
stretch it to its limits, then it wont show its shortcomings.

I have SQL Management Studio 2005, Visual Studio 2005 and a webcast running
on my laptop and notice no limitations/problems. Do you have a scenario to
report?


Jay

 

[Tiberius]

Do you have a scenario to report?


Sure, and this is the reason why I dumped Vista was because I decided to try
to do heavy duty some work on it.
Normally I don't change much on my work computers.. but hey.. vista was out
and I wanted to really put it to the test.
Do trolls actually take the time to explain all this? I doubt it....
Apps:
Adobe, Photoshop, dreamweaver, flash, corel draw, office2007, Web expression
, FrontPage, and various heavy weight video and audio producing applications
(ALL CLAIM) to be vista compatible...

The result was that vista was very slow (not to mention that the time it
took to install all these was far greater than installing them on the SAME
machine on a dual boot with XP). Ok I could overlook the install, since it s
a one time thing.. but then..

working on vista was so painstakingly slow I was amazed!!! I could not
finish the work out of frustration, problems started to show, explorer was
freezing... OK I can admit that I do some very complex stuff, but as I said
XP worked well under the same stuff...

I went back to XP (as I said dual boot so its the same hardware) and I as
pleasantly surprised to see the fantastic speed of the OS. I got the work
done, and never got frustrated at all. XP just works!

From that point on I will not and cannot use Vista for work. I use it only
to fool around...and learn more about it.

EVEN if the interface was good, which its not, the performance of this OS is
very low - again compared with xp on the same hardware.

This machine is not very new, but well inside the parameters vista gives..
1.8 GHz with 1.5 gb of ram...
but even on another faster machine that I have dual boot too, vista
performed poorly...

and I must NOTE that all drivers were the ones vista had.. I didn't install
any of my own, so its not a driver problem.
That excuse is overused by vista fanatics .

Look you have to understand that I am a guy who has been using computers so
intensely that I have a "6th" sense about what
is going on, on a pc, when it has the slightest degradation of speed or
creation... Computers to me are like musical instruments
and I can hear a falsetto when its being played.

PS. Yes I did try to fine tune vista, but don't imagine that I got a lot
more performance out of it.

 

[Jay]

Sure, and this is the reason why I dumped Vista was because I decided to
try to do heavy duty some work on it.
Normally I don't change much on my work computers.. but hey.. vista was
out and I wanted to really put it to the test.
Do trolls actually take the time to explain all this? I doubt it....
Apps:
Adobe, Photoshop, dreamweaver, flash, corel draw, office2007, Web
expression , FrontPage, and various heavy weight video and audio producing
applications (ALL CLAIM) to be vista compatible...

You ran these at once or just had them installed?
What is this fairly complex stuff that you do?
I am familiar and use all of them except Coral Draw and FrontPage *spits*

With any OS upgrade you have to make allowances for resources.
MS made no secret of the fact that the new OS required greater CPU power and
RAM so therefore XP + apps is not the same as Vista + apps.
You buy a gruntier car you get a larger tank.

I too am an experienced Windows user (and programmer) I don't claim to hear
it sing though

Jay

 

[Tiberius]

Hello....
I always need to have several of these open at the same time and need to
switch from one to the other..
Now imagine me using a multitrack sony acid musical score with 10+ Tracks,
and trying to save it so I can then import it into a flash with another
15+layers of animations and images & text, I have Photoshop on, so I can
edit some of the images, and corel also handy so I can create a graphic
element on the fly...
By the way, the preview of flash inside the flash application was very
slow... I switched to XP and the animation played at real time.

Poor vista just cant handle all this, yet XP can do it perfectly on the same
hardware.

With any OS upgrade you have to make allowances for resources.
MS made no secret of the fact that the new OS required greater CPU power
and RAM so therefore XP + apps is not the same as Vista + apps.

Well if the vistaboys would accept that as truth I would not have a problem.
Of course it is like that.. but they say lies that
"Vista is FASTER than XP" lol

I believe that this is a distortion in their perception by the fact that
vista has better cache and that they had a clean install to work with.
But it is not really true..and I have seen this on many machines.

I too am an experienced Windows user (and programmer) I don't claim to
hear it sing though

Well perhaps you should start thinking of it that way then.
There are no boundaries between man and the machine in my case.. the
computer has become an extension of my creative mind.
It allows me to product a multitude of things that I conceive in my brain,
and has given me access to any information my mind can ask for.
In this sense the whole internet is my memory bank and knowledge base.
And I can "feel" the slightest problem... and performance degradation. Thats
why even if a virus or malware slips in, I discover it right away..
lol I am a human antispyware and antivirus.

 

[Jay]

Poor vista just cant handle all this, yet XP can do it perfectly on the
same hardware.

As I said XP + Apps <> Vista + Apps.
Get some more grunt on your box and when you boot to Vista you'll enjoy the
same speed and performance.

Well if the vistaboys would accept that as truth I would not have a
problem. Of course it is like that.. but they say lies that
"Vista is FASTER than XP" lol

So you agree that to achieve the same performance on Vista you need to
upgrade the resources yet you try to compare the 2 OSs using identical
hardware? and based on the results of this you "revert to XP and will never
go back"
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Why are you so keen to see Vista
fail?

I believe that this is a distortion in their perception by the fact that
vista has better cache and that they had a clean install to work with.
But it is not really true..and I have seen this on many machines.

You appear to be using our debate to do exactly what I see you as... someone
with a blind intent on bashing MS.

Well perhaps you should start thinking of it that way then.
There are no boundaries between man and the machine in my case..

Now you are beginning to scare me!


Jay

 

[Jay]

And I can "feel" the slightest problem... and performance degradation.
Thats why even if a virus or malware slips in, I discover it right away..
lol I am a human antispyware and antivirus.

You allow a virus or malware to "slip in"?
Are you sure you are an experienced PC user?

When you have finished thinking of your PC as some sort of "extension" you
might want to update your AV/Spyware definitions.

Jay

 

[Tiberius]

Unfortunaly, if you do the amount of work I do on the internet,
viruses and malware do slip in from time to time, even though you may have
the best antivirus apps.
It doesn't happen often, but it does.. and as I said in those cases I catch
them myself.
Plus I have to clean many computers for others, and I can find out the
problem fast...

It might be a surprise to you, but there has not been even ONE computer that
I have had to fix that has windows on it,
that didn't have spyware, malware or a virus. All of them were infected in
some way causing degradation of performance.

As a programmer you should be aware of such things...I believe you do, but
you are trying to prove somehow that I don't know
what I am doing.

If you read the statistics and comparisons there is not even one
product out there that can fully protect you from these threats,
and I have tested them all.. I am now using the best antivirus there is
NOD32... small in footprint but catches the most viri than any other
antivirus....

Add the fact that most users are inexperienced, the result is them having
problematic machines without them knowing it.

I have 3 antispyware applications...
Vista as you may have read on online comparisons, is not more secure against
viri and malware compared to XP.

The only way to be sure you wont get a virus is to use MACOSX or Linux.

But I love windows despite those problems... the good versions of windows
that is, that exclude Windows Me and Vista.

Any tool is the extension of the user.. for an artist its the pencil or
brush, for the musician its the instrument, for the doctor its the
scalpel...

the computer is just one heck of complex tool....

Don't be afraid of this concept... this is when one shows that he has
mastered his art or profession, then the tools have become one with the user
and all he cares about is the ending results and enjoys the process as well.

 

[DanS]

So you agree that to achieve the same performance on Vista you need to
upgrade the resources yet you try to compare the 2 OSs using identical
hardware?

Ahhh. Here's the big sticker Jay. You've only been here a few days you say,
so you missed those threads, there haven't been any lately, that had
several staunch Vista supporters insisting that Vista DOES run faster on
identical hardware than XP. The point was Vista is so much better than XP
that it overcame all of the bloat and extra stuff and managed to make apps
run faster.

That arguement has died down though, as seems to be finally accepted that
yes Virginia, it does require more hardware to achieve the same user-
perceived performance.

 

[Guest]

Hi everyone i am not a boffin or pc nerd i have just purchased a new pc that
came with vista basic what can i say. we are going backwards this os is crap
after loosing over 3.000 pictures at the click of a button i am going back to
xp. the vista o.s is not user friendly and me and my partner find it hard if
not impossible to do the basic tasks we used to perform on xp.can anyone help
with the correct procedure to install xp on my pc thanks.Dell dimention 520
360 gb harddrive 1024ram

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

Tiberius

MS know that Vista is not yet good enough for mission critical stuff.. most
of the IT world should know that Vista is not yet good enough for mission
critical stuff.. HP and Dell already know this, and it is reflected in the
fact that they supply mission critical 'workstations' with XP still..

There was a time when XP was not good enough, and business users held on to
Win 2000.. some still do.. but XP came good, just as Vista will in time..

XP users still have problems as can be seen if one visits the XP
newsgroups.. Mac OS users have problems, Ubuntu users have problems, AIX
users have problems.. set any computer OS up and leave it be, no problems..
get a group of users together of varying ability levels, then sit and wait
for the problems to start, because they surely will..

Re the user interface.. 'but I always did it this way in XP'.. 'but I always
did it this way in Win 2000'.. 'but I always did it this way in Win ME'..
'but I always did it this way in Win 98'.. 'but I always did it this way in
Win 95'.. 'but I always did it this way in Win 3.1'..

I didn't come into this group for a few days, and now saw that people
are saying exactly the same things I have been crying out for so long, and
have been
called a troll. I wonder as time goes by and more people realize the
truth, how with the fanatic vista lovers hang on to their misconceptions?

For example this post:
Subject: why why why from Mas Despacio

why did microsoft have to unleash the dinosaur that is vista on an
unsuspecting world...

people everyday rely on computers for their work, but sadly when they
cannot
do half the work they used to because vista runs so slowly, they begin to
get
discruntled, disillusioned and downright angry that they have been conned
into installing a product that clearly isn't fit for the purpose that is
was
sold for. This in the eyes of the law is fraud.


or this one:
Subject: Fear from David Dickinson

BEGIN OPINION>
I gotta tell ya', I've made a lot of money from using and supporting
Microsoft products over the last 28 years. But now, I'm afraid.

The Vista user interface has many, many counter-intuitive features,
including some that through creating confusion will cause disasters,
including loss of data. In fact, Explorer windows may show inaccurate
information. Vista doesn't play well with other machines on a network.
Administering it can be tedious and time-consuming when compared to
previous
OS's. A lot of stuff either doesn't work the way you expect or just
doesn't
work at all. It's been dumbed down in some areas so much that
administrators can't do some things they need to do

Or others asking how to get rid of Vista and revert back to XP...



I laugh at the crude attempts of the fanatic vista lovers in here to
excuse vista
somehow, by the classic "it works on mine therefore you are doing
something wrong"
or "since we dont see people complaining, they dont exist"

These excuses are laughable... and are wrong ... I have seen many machines
crawl with vista.. not ONE
was faster with vista than with XP. Also EVERY user I have talked to
(accept the crazy fanboys in here)
absolutely hate vista and want XP back! What else I have seen is the more
knowledgeable the user the more he wants XP back!
Only a amature casual user would like vista, because it has a fresh look..
people who really use computers for work don't!

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Tiberius]

However I used XP before any service packs existed and never ever complained
about anything!!! In fact I praised MS for making XP!!!.. the improvement
upon what was my prior OS (windows98) was so big it was astonishing!

And I thought longhorn (vista) would be a similar breakthrough after 5 whole
years of work... slowly with the betas and RC I started getting the scary
realization that vista would be horrible!

The stability, speed, ease of use.. XP was a milestone and it saved my as*
because
win98 crashed on my several times a day and needed restart.. with XP I
finally was able to work without fear... I had lots of ram.. but 98 couldnt
take advantage of it!

A very annoying problem with win98 was the resource instability... even if
you had 512mb of ram.. if you were running enough programs (even though you
might had lots of ram still free) the OS would destabilized.

In fact there is no doubt that if MS didnt move to the NT platform, it would
have lost big time, from rivals like MAC and linux that had the stability
needed,
and was making fun of windows for stability issues... Without that move MS
would have lost the OS battle.

Now you may say that I skipped windows2000. That is true.. but windows2k
was not so popular then.. and not for the normal user.. MS, promoted it only
for
businesses (actually it didnt promote it much at all!), and there were not
so many drivers, but by the time XP came out
there were plenty of XP -2k compatible drivers. What they DID promote was
windows Me a that time... and you know what fiasco that was!!
Everyone went back to win98 just like now they are going back to XP from
Vista.

What am I saying here is that XP was so great an improvement from 98 that
it was well worth the money 10 times so!
But Vista has no big changes.. and those it has are mostly without caring
for the user experience...
also making everything slower without giving back something.

I never every said I am resistant to change.. If you see my pc, everything I
have on it is the latest and greatest..
I update incrementally.. this means if a program goes from 8.1.1 to 8.1.2 I
get the update! lol

I welcome each change and adjust very fast.. I am used to this. But when a
change is horrible.. sorry... I cant use it.

This is not a debate about habits of working.. this is a debate of whether
Vista even is good enough to stay on a PC!

 

[Tiberius]

one more thing that people who say XP was not good before service packs:

This is misleading! Xp was very good even without service packs!
It was the attacks that evolved durring its lifetime that forced it to
become more sercure via the service packs... in other words the service
packs are mainly for security patches .. security patches for threats that
did not exist when XP came out!

So how can you say XP was not good when it came out if the threats did not
exist??

This is misleading.. and a bad excuse to try to say "Hey vista will not be
good until a SP1". Nope, XP was good right out of the box,
vista is Crap right out of the box and a service pack cannot change the
reasons why its crap: maily
Bad interface and user experience design (a service pack wont change the
GUI!!!)
and SLOW SLUGGY performance... (dont expect a service pack to make vista
go much faster)

 

[Tiberius]

If you change your OS will you still be in warranty?

Ask that before you do anything else

 

[Guest]

Vista Sp1 will release including a Kernel update, this probe than this os was
not finished when was launch come to market, actually vista is a waste of
money, give no any real improvement over XP and requiring a double of
hardware to do the same things slowly ....

 

[DX]

I am amazed how boring you are.