This way, that way, or some other way (new computer advise)

[extrude-o_matic]

greetings all,
im new to these boards so hello to all.

my question is this, new computer for gaming, buy it or build it....

now ive been playing games on computers for as long as i can rember, starting back on BBC B's and acorns.

got to a point a good few years back where i didnt have the money to buy a decent system, and my athlon 900 hz wasnt cutting the mustard for me.

along with the fact broadband was but a dream in the rural location i was in, so i sat back and made do with my PS and PS2.

Now a few years have slipped by and i find my self at this point.. can get broadband where i now live, have a nice steady job paying me well enough to think about treating myself to a nice new comuter.

as far as the internals of a computer i have pluged in some RAM before, but thats about it.

im probly looking at a budget of around £2000, i want a sweet system to get my love of gaming back off to a good start.

with a budget like this i am slightly woried about building myself, as i dont want to end up with a heap of junk that i have wrecked in the build.

i think i could probly cope with the build as im not a daft monkey, although im sure i would need the help and support of a friendly bunch of folks (which i seem to have found here reading some of the previous threads on this board).

so my basic questions to begin are;

How easy is it to destroy a system in a self build ?

if i was to buy a system who would you recomend ? (anyone but MESH, i still have a bitter taste from the last time i delt with them idiots)

i have been looking at alien, but have read a few places they are massivly over priced, are they realy that over priced ?

i also looked at dell, i have never heard a bad word against what they build, but i have heard that they might have money problems? (i dont want to spend a bunch of money with somone who might go ka-puff.)

without going into to much detail, for a budget of 2k give or take a little (inc the vat mans cut,) what sort of spec should i be able to get buying prebuilt ?

and what sort of spec could i get if i was to build myself ?

and again how easy is it to destroy a system whilst building it ?

.. not that its probly important, but im a FPS junkie, the computer wouldnt be used for much other than gaming, maybe a bit of photo editing.

Genral questions i know, no real right answer to most of it either, but i thank you all in advance for any and all kind words and help, i also thank you for any un-kind words as long as they are said in a nice way.


Mike
Extruding things that shouldnt be extruded.

 

[muckshifter]

Hello & Welcome ...

Lets get to the point.

Build it yourself ... it really is just like plugging a stick of RAM ... but I guess for a first timer it would be stressful ... very hard to get it wrong though.

We have a few BYO around and a couple 'just' finished.

You never get quite what you wont from pre-built system ... and any "off-the-shelf" are just a waist of time and grossly overpriced.

Actually it will cost you more to build your own than an off-the-shelf system ... because you cant buy at the price they do. However, with £2000, we should be able to spend that no bother ... and have very little change.

I'm afraid I don't "offer" to go 'hunting' for bits-n-bobs, but I'm pretty good in picking holes in other peoples suggestions.


Hang around ... take your time ... and I'm sure the Folks here will spend your monies appropriately.

 

[mudfrog]

Like Mucks just said self build is the way to go.


I've just finished [/cough] mine and I would defo do it again in the future.
Can be a bit stressfull in the sense that getting all the bits together at the same time to start the build. Bbut once you've got all the bits you should be away.
And you can sit back and appreciate all you have done.

The choosing of parts is the difficult one as there is so much choice out there it can get a bit hectic.

I would suggest you check out the following sites:

www.ebuyer.com
www.overclockers.co.uk

They do bundles like MB + Ram etc with slight discounts.
Just get in there and choose what you think would go and post it up here and watch people pick it apart and suggest alternatives etc...etc...

Just dive in

Cheers,

Rich

 

[floppybootstomp]

How easy is it to destroy a system in a self build ?

Really easy - just plug it in and throw a bucket of water over it

Erm, no, not very easy at all. The two main ways to destroy would be to short circuit the motherboard to chassis and leave off the processor's heatsink/fan.

Neither of which you are likely to do.

You can destroy a floppy drive by connecting the data cable the wrong way round IF there's a disk in the drive - so don't have a disk in the drive when you connect it.

if i was to buy a system who would you recomend ? (anyone but MESH, i still have a bitter taste from the last time i delt with them idiots)

I have no idea, I've never bought one.

have been looking at alien, but have read a few places they are massivly over priced, are they realy that over priced ?

Alien make good machines, probably the best, but yes, they are overpriced, if you buy one of their machines it's just like throwing away £500.00 or so (that's a monkey to you guv).

You will get a good ready built system for £2K but it's guaranteed there will always be one or two components that don't come up to par.

Build your own machine with that budget and you're looking at something really really good.

You'll get all the help you need here, there are many members who'd be happy to talk you through the build process step by step.

Right, first off, choose your Monitor, as that will probably be the most expensive item. If you're going TFT, make sure you get a good response time (lower the better).

Once you've decided that, we'll see what you can build with the rest of your budget.

A few things to consider:

1Gb or 2Gb RAM?
Dual or single core CPU?
Dual or single graphics cards?
Intel or AMD? (scratch that, for gaming go AMD )
5.1 or 2.1 loudspeakers?
Good gaming mouse required?
Software costs (Win XP?)
Networking?
ADSL modem?

 

[extrude-o_matic]

Thanks all for the response so far,

im gonna go looking at them sites Mudfrog put forward, see whats around and whats better or worse.

..............................
Floppybootstomp i didnt think i would have to answer questions this quickly, not sure if you even asked em to be answered, but i had a go anyway( got to give me at least a point for effort)

1Gb or 2Gb RAM?

was hoping to go 2MB on RAM seems like the better option

Dual or single core CPU?

erm... not sure, bit of reading to work out this i guess

Dual or single graphics cards?

Dual seems like the better route, again more reading up to do

Intel or AMD? (scratch that, for gaming go AMD )

AMD, why cause i dont like little blue men running around my desktop

5.1 or 2.1 loudspeakers?

i was thinking of using the speakers i already have(for now) i tend to play games on headphones, i love gaming the wife doesnt lol.

Good gaming mouse required?

would hope to invest in a razor, always got told they was the best bar none.

Software costs (Win XP?)

i have always been told XP pro is the one to get. dont think i could reuse my 98SE off my old system

Networking?
ADSL modem?

erm.. yes no maybe... router then i dont need the modem ? built in firewall ?, got lots of reading and re-educating to do


again thanks all for starting the help ball rolling, im gonna go read some stuff.

Mike

extruding answers that make no sense.

 

[mudfrog]

1Gb or 2Gb RAM?

was hoping to go 2MB on RAM seems like the better option

You might want more that 2MB of ram More reading perhaps.

lol only jokin'

Good luck with the search and keep us up to date and don't hesitate to ask anymore questions

Cheers,

Rich

 

[Alf]

Hello,
the fastest Single core will beat out a dualcore CPU in gaming (except in Apps).

right now Dual Video cards are the way to go if your gaming, what you could do is buy a compatable Video card right now then when prices get lower buy the same card at a lower price . of course this means that you nee a SLI motherboard for Nvidia (or a Crossfire Mobo if going for ATI).

1 gig or Ram works swell right now, but having twice as much wont hurt, right?

PSUs are important!! dont buy a no name Power Suppply, your expensive parts live are at stake!

 

[floppybootstomp]

Alf's right, single core CPU would be your best choice.

AMD preferable for gaming, yes.

2Gb RAM is becoming the norm, forthcoming games will likely run better on that amount, rather than 1Gb.

For a gaming mouse, consider the Logitech G7, bit pricey but cordless, 2000dpi and quick swappable battery pack.

Dual grafix cards are good.

Win XP Pro is good.

Router/modem is best option, yes.

And as Alf says, don't scrimp on PSU, I'd recommend Tagan or OCZ.

Made your mind up on the monitor yet?

Once you have, I daresay a few guys here would make suggestions how to use remainder of budget.

 

[extrude-o_matic]

thanks again all, the help ball just keeps on rolling

done a bit of looking , and so far i like the Samsung SM930BF 19" got a 4 ms response, and is £260 inc the vat..not that thats set in stone, but its a start..

did some looking at other things and i think i maxed out the dream credit card lol..

comments on some of the following items would be nice..

Vid card..
BFG GeForce 7800 gt OC 256 MB GDDR3 vivo TV-out/dual DVI @ £235 each

Memory...
Crucial 2gb (2x1gb) DDR PC4000 Ballistix dual channel kit @ £235

Processor...
AMD Athlon 64x2 dual core 4800+ (soc 939) @ £590

Mother Board...
Asus A8N-sli Deluxe nForce4 Sli (soc 939) PCI express @£112


Thanks as far as i have got so far... have way over spent and i havent even got a case for it lol ;P
need to look at a lower processor prehapps, or prehapps i just need a bigger limit on my dream credit card lol

again all the items are just a starting point, im a realist, i know im gonna have to cut back in places, but which places...

probly shouldnt say this but my limit of 2k can be stretched.. probly a max of 2500.. although the closer to 2k the better..

again thanks in advance for all the help and advise...

Mike
Extruding all his money down a hole

 

[floppybootstomp]

All good but you don't really need to spend so much on the CPU.

Start at the AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego (1Mb cache, 2.4Ghz) @ £176.00 or anything above that, single core, that suits your budget.

Top choice would be AMD Athlon FX57 San Diego (1Mb cache, 2.8Ghz) @ £735.00.

 

[muckshifter]

Well I'm pleased to see YOU knew that you'll need a decent motherboard ... not a bad choice either.

Without a good MB the rest of the kit may as well be crap.

 

[Me__2001]

this is what i am planning if i can get the money together again, this is all from overclockers

A8N-SLI Premium
AMD X2 4400 (the extra £120 for the 4800 aint worth it IMO)
2 GB OCZ platinum PC3200
200GB Samsung Sata-II HD
Plextor PX-740A DVDRW
Plextor PX-130A DVD-Rom
XFX Extreme edition 7800 GTX
Thermaltake Tsunami case
Tagan 530W PSU
Viewsonic VX912B 19" LCD
XP Pro

thats roughly £1800, plus the other peripherals and you should be about there, this will take just about any program or game and not struggle

 

[extrude-o_matic]

thanks all for your on going advise and help.

going on shift soon so will be a few days before i can reply to any posts, but they will all be read when i get off work.

Processor....
AMD San diego Fx 55 @ £576 not much cheaper than the 64 dual core 4800+ but better for what i need ?

HDD....
Any ideas on what way to go on this ?

PSU....
saw two that seemed to hit the mark, although only one seemed to say that it was SLi compliant ( thats to do with the twin vid cards im thinking ?)

OCZ power stream 600w ATx2 @ £153
and
Tagan TGS80-u15 580W ATx2.01 easy Con SLi compliant Modular silent psu @ 93.94

any thoughts ?

anyhows, thanks again for the help...

Mike

off to extrude some sleep

 

[extrude-o_matic]

Spec list update

got an updated spec list for you guys to run your eyes over if youd be so kind.

got a few questions about my picks also, so here goes.

Motherboard; Asus A8N-sli Premium @115

Processor; AMD (sandiego) Athlon FX 55 @ 576

Vid cards, BFG Geforce GT OC 256MB GDDR3 @ 400 for 2

PSU; Seasonic S12-600 @ 88

Case; SilverStone Temjin TJ06 -Black @ 77

Memory; Crucial 2GB (2x1gb) DDR PC4000 Bellistix Dual Channel @ 160

Hard Disk; Westen Digital Raptor 74GB WD740GD @107

Monitor; Samsung SM90 BF 19" @260

Total of about £1780, leaving me 220 or so for XP pro , cd/dvd drive. And a new mouse (covered in the or so im thinking)

So how does that look to you guys ? anything ive missed off the list ?

Questions...

The AMD FX 55 doesnt seem to be sold in many places, is the a reason for this ?

Is the Raptor worth it ? lot of money for that extra speed and less space.

the RAM was one of the only high speed 1GB sticks i could find, any other suggestions for this ?

Im guessing cases are alot to do with personal taste as much as anything else, the one i picked seemd to be big enough for the stuff im gonna put in now, and down the road (sound card/ extra cooling). it also has a large wind tunnel (or so the advert said), important with two vid cards and such im thinking.


Thanks for taking the time to read, and for any replys.

Mike

Extruding bits'n'bobs

 

[Me__2001]

FX-55 is really an enthusiast chip, i doubt many people buy them so most companies probably dont bother stocking them because they dont sell them

high speed 1GB RAM stiks are pretty new so there arent many about

what i would do is get a 36GB raptor for your OS and some games and a 200GB hard drive for everything else

everything else looks good

 

[floppybootstomp]

As Me__2001 said.

The Raptors are worth it, but they don't exactly give you much storage space.

 

[PotGuy]

I thought the fx 57 was a direct replacement for the fx 55? surely the only stocks would either be used or old stock?

 

[extrude-o_matic]

ive been looking at the fx 55/fx 57, and im not sure, how ever i also started looking at the Athlon 64 4000+ sandiego ( was wondering if the extra money on the FX range was worth it, or if id be better off just going for the top 64 instead ?


dropping from the FX means that i could get my sound card and have a bit left over..

which leads me to a question, which of these setups is better ?

at OcUK they have a bundle deal ; Athlon 64 4000+ san diego
Asus A8n-sli premium
2gb Corsair XMS pc3200 dual channel
@ 582

or buying seperate; Asus a8n-sli premuim @ 115
Athlon 64 4000+ san diego @ 253
Crucial 2gb DDR PC4000 bellistix dual channel @ 160
total of = 528

buying the second lot seems to make more sense, higher speed RAM for less money ? am i missing somthing here ?

the sound card i picked is Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi xtreme music (retail) @ 91 .. is this card is worth the money ?

last question for now, which Modem/router/firewall would you guys recomend ?

many thanks in advance for all the advise

Mike

 

[Me__2001]

buying seperate is more expensive

i make it £622.58 for them seperately and £581.45 as a bundle

the 4000 is a decent CPU the FX-55 will give you better performance but for the price Vs performance gain its not worth it

are you after a hardware firewall or a software one like zonealarm ?

 

[extrude-o_matic]

opps, i added the RAM value without vat, although with the right price in, still works out a touch cheaper.

the bundle deal was with corsair XMS pc3200 Ram and is £581.45

buying seperate same MB (£135.07) same processor(252.57) and Crucial PC4000 Ballistix RAM (on special £187.94) totaling if my heads got the maths right £575.58

so the question is basicly whats a better stick of ram, Corsair xms pc3200, or Crucial Ballistix pc4000 ?

as for the firewall, i was thinking of a hardware one in the modem/router, plus running a software one. I read some place that this covers traffic in (hardware) and programs going out(software). I dont make even the smallest claim on knowing what im talking about, just rember reading it some place.

thanks for the help
mike