sp2 windows update bug?

[NoNoBadDog!]

Francis;

It has nothing to do with superiority. You are just wrong. You cannot
accept the fact that several people have gently and eloquently stated as
much.

Bobby

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

Francis;

Please post appropriate links to your "informed sources".

The kind of misinformation you and your sources are perpetuating needs to
addressed.

Can't you just accept the fact that you are wrong? How many different
people have to tell you that before you accept it?

Bobby

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

francis;
Whatever you want to think, does not make it so.
My answer is based on years of first and second hand experience as
well as the articles you referenced and many others.
So far your opinion seems to be limited to only a few articles.

I never said I was an authority or expert, that is entirely your idea.

Your attempt at put downs in an effort to bolster your position are
noted and appropriately ignored.
They show your insecurity in your own position.
Whether the position has validity or not, you have just shown you are
not capable of supporting it.

Does this mean you are not taking this to the more appropriate
newsgroup as I suggested?
Is this because the actual facts are not of interest to you?

 

[francis gérard]

Francis;

Please post appropriate links to your "informed sources".

The kind of misinformation you and your sources are perpetuating needs to
addressed.

bobby, the other day, you said, "Old habits die hard...but at least I
learned something today," in reference to the fact that you also didn't know
that modern chipsets support independent timing parameters for IDE devices.
is it possible that your knowledge-base, as it pertains to computer
technology, is a tad outdated, perhaps?

just a thought

 

[francis gérard]

Francis;

It has nothing to do with superiority. You are just wrong. You cannot
accept the fact that several people have gently and eloquently stated as
much.

again, i submit...

bobby, the other day, you said, "Old habits die hard...but at least I
learned something today," in reference to the fact that you also didn't know
that modern chipsets support independent timing parameters for IDE devices.
is it possible that your knowledge-base, as it pertains to computer
technology, is a tad outdated, perhaps?

 

[francis gérard]

francis;
Whatever you want to think, does not make it so.
My answer is based on years of first and second hand experience as well as
the articles you referenced and many others.
So far your opinion seems to be limited to only a few articles.

not just opinions, JJ, also based on my extensive system-builder experience
and setting-up Windows systems, AND i did cite informed references, where
are yours?

I never said I was an authority or expert, that is entirely your idea.

i know that, it was sarcasm, meant to draw attention to the fact that MVPs
are not necessarily experts, and even they sometimes get it wrong

Your attempt at put downs in an effort to bolster your position are noted
and appropriately ignored.

yes, i see that... ;-)

They show your insecurity in your own position.

wow, you're not just an MVP know-it-all, but you're an armchair psychiatrist
too!

Whether the position has validity or not, you have just shown you are not
capable of supporting it.

i already have, and continue to do so

Does this mean you are not taking this to the more appropriate newsgroup
as I suggested?

oh, get off your high-horse, man... the MVP thing has really gone to your
head

Is this because the actual facts are not of interest to you?

i stated published facts

 

[francis gérard]

oh btw,

i'll be offline for a couple days, but when i get back, i'll expect you to
have googled-up some good references (know-it-alls tend to do that) to
support your assertions that installing drivers via WU is bad, JJ! ;-}

i didn't bother with google, i simply went straight to the source...
Microsoft's web site.

cheers

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

Yes, but at least I admitted I was wrong...something you seem incapable of.

On my statements about WU drivers, I am correct, as others have also stated.


Bobby

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

Frances;

your failure to provide proof of your "published" facts really puts you in a
bad position. Either post your links, or drink a BIG glass of STFU.

Bobby

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

See my other response to this question. Either post links to your sources,
or do us all a favor and quit acting like a spoiled 5 year old. In other
words, Put up or Shut up.

Bobby

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Your continued name calling only proves my previous posts.
Your sarcasm would not be necessary to boost your position if you were
capable and confident in it.

If you would go to the correct forum as suggested, you would see
actual first hand proof instead you insist on this incorrect forum.
But I guess you may be afraid "the source" may not match your
preconceived version of reality.

More of your assumptions proved false.
Good bye, enjoy your vacation.
Come back when you can do converse civilly without insulting , until
then you are best ignored.

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

This almost made me do a spit-take with the tea I was drinking...

Here he is running with his tail between his legs and then challenges US to
prove what he already knows to be true.

One last challenge...post your sources from Microsoft's website. It you can
show me one single shred of proof that the Drivers on WU are meant as
replacements for the manufacturers drivers, have the same functionality, and
support all the extended functions that the manufacturers drivers can offer,
I will apologize to you in this forum for the world to see. You cannot cite
a single source to back up your "published facts". Despite repeated
requests to post your sources, you have not done so. Do us a favor...stay
offline.

Bobby

 

[francis gérard]

See my other response to this question. Either post links to your
sources, or do us all a favor and quit acting like a spoiled 5 year old.
In other words, Put up or Shut up.

i have provided extensive information on the matter, based on my
professional experience and the 6 links i posted in this thread, it's not my
problem you can't follow a discussion.

obviously, some (many) of you have religious feelings over this, but i've
stated my position very clearly, i did not say that hardware vendor's
drivers are superceded by those posted to WU, i merely stated that they were
tested, certified and safe to use. that has been my experience (as a
system-builder), without exception, and is supported by information
published by microsoft, which i referenced already, had you bothered to read
it.

no hard feelings, eh BadDog! ;->

see you in a couple days

 

[francis gérard]

Your continued name calling only proves my previous posts.
Your sarcasm would not be necessary to boost your position if you were
capable and confident in it.

i am very confident in my position, based on my professional experience and
microsoft published facts. i don't need to boost my position, and i'm sorry
if sarcasm escapes you, and why is it that these things turn into a who's
right pissing contest? if my experiences with drivers via WU were not good,
i would not be wasting my time stating otherwise... think about it. if i am
wrong about WU, then someone should also inform microsoft.

If you would go to the correct forum as suggested, you would see actual
first hand proof instead you insist on this incorrect forum.
But I guess you may be afraid "the source" may not match your preconceived
version of reality.

JJ, i *already* posted SIX references, direct from microsoft, my god, why
can't you people learn to READ a discussion thread??? this is really
getting frustrating, as so many of you seem incapable of following a simple
discussion, informing yourselves of ALL the facts before jumping-in with a
hit-n-run post and then have the nerve to get on my case because YOU
couldn't be bothered to go back and read what i said.

More of your assumptions proved false.
Good bye, enjoy your vacation.

work trip actually, thanks

Come back when you can do converse civilly without insulting , until then
you are best ignored.

do as you will JJ... i'll not lose any sleep

having said that... goodnite gentle-people
--
francis

JJ, relax man, i'm only giving you a hard-time over MVP thing, cause i think
the MVP designation is silly, at best. however, i also realize you are a
valuable contributor to these NGs, we simply disagree on this matter

 

[francis gérard]

Frances;

your failure to provide proof of your "published" facts really puts you in
a bad position. Either post your links, or drink a BIG glass of STFU.

i already have... fix your newsreader

 

[francis gérard]

Frances;

your failure to provide proof of your "published" facts really puts you in
a bad position. Either post your links, or drink a BIG glass of STFU.

i already have... fix your newsreader

 

[francis gérard]

This almost made me do a spit-take with the tea I was drinking...

Here he is running with his tail between his legs and then challenges US
to prove what he already knows to be true.

One last challenge...post your sources from Microsoft's website. It you
can show me one single shred of proof that the Drivers on WU are meant as
replacements for the manufacturers drivers, have the same functionality,
and support all the extended functions that the manufacturers drivers can
offer, I will apologize to you in this forum for the world to see. You
cannot cite a single source to back up your "published facts". Despite
repeated requests to post your sources, you have not done so. Do us a
favor...stay offline.

you're a hoot bobby, calm your nerves, and fix your newsreader, the
references are posted already. i could re-post them, but i'm not going to
oblige your unwillingness to read the entire discussion thread.

 

[Sunny]

oh btw,

i'll be offline for a couple days, but when i get back, i'll expect you to
have googled-up some good references (know-it-alls tend to do that) to
support your assertions that installing drivers via WU is bad, JJ! ;-}

i didn't bother with google, i simply went straight to the source...
Microsoft's web site.

If it keeps you feeling all warm and fuzzy, keep installing drivers from Win
update.

If you get bored, browse through all the hardware manufacturers sites and
take a few notes on special requirements for most drivers e.g.
Video - "no other programs running", selecting "VGA" etc.
The list goes on..........(like having IE open and running)

 

[Sunny]

JJ, relax man, i'm only giving you a hard-time over MVP thing, cause i think
the MVP designation is silly, at best. however, i also realize you are a
valuable contributor to these NGs, we simply disagree on this matter

Your point is clear IMHO, "head in sand" ring any bells, or
"The rest of the World is out of step"

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

I HAVE read your links and they do not support your claims. I will cite one
example:

To be eligible for delivery through Windows Update, a driver package must
meet the following criteria:

. Compress to a file size of 20 MB or less.

. Pass Windows Hardware Quality Labs (WHQL) testing review for the
"Designed for Windows" logo program.

. Use INF-based installation, with:

. A unique and current DriverVer directive in the information
(.inf) files.

. Installation only on specific hardware ID matches with no
known problems.

. No requirements for system restarts or user input during
installation.

The last two requirements definitely limit the ability to
deliver fully functional drivers. The last one really blows your claim out
of the water. You obviously know nothing about compiling and publishing
drivers. Your whole focus throughout this thread has been WHQL
certification, which means absolutely nothing in the real world. It we all
had to sit around and wait for MS to certify drivers and place them in the
WHQL database, we would still be in the stone age.

You cannot seriously maintain that the drivers on WU maintain
all the extended functions, hooks and handles and procedures calls that
dedicated drivers can?

The very link you posted says that drivers submitted must be
baseline and compiled in such a manner that they cannot terminate currently
running processes and substitute new coding for those threads. You have no
concept of writing drivers. There will *NEVER* be a driver posted on WU
that will be the equivalent of a complete package driver (except for perhaps
a simple device like a USB controller or a NIC card). For printers,
scanners, video cards, and other devices that require drivers that can
support all the functions these devices are capable of, are under 20 MB,
cannot causes errors, cannot require a reboot, and cannot require user
intervention...well you do the math.

I sincerely hope you enjoy your vacation. This thread has
grown tiresome, and I have no desire to continue with it.

I hope that someday you can grow and mature to a level that will
allow you to understand that there is no embarrassment in making a mistake.
It is how we learn. The real test of a man is to be able to admit when he
has made a mistake. You have not yet grown to that level.

In closing, I will cite you an example from my personal
experience. On one of my units I am running and ATI AIW 9800 pro. Just the
driver for this card, as posted on the ATI website, is 26 MB. This alone
would fail the requirements from the link that YOU provided. Next comes the
Multimedia Center driver. This download is 32 MB. Again, failure. I wont
even mention the Remote control or the DAO/MDAC update that must be
installed with this package. Had I accepted the drivers for this card from
WU, I could not use the tuner, I could not watch DVD's , I could not use the
supplied remote control..But according to you, there is no difference. I am
glad that I am not depending on you to build a system for me.

Bobby