sp2 windows update bug?

[francis gérard]

It may be offering one that is in fact older - but is 'signed' by MS
quality labs. I would always go to the web site of the makers and get
the latest driver that *they* recommend for use with XP

ALL drivers designed for Windows XP are supposed to be 'signed', whether
obtained from WU or the vendor.

apparently you missed the part in the discussion where i said:

"the general rule is, if WU offers an updated driver for your hardware, go
check the hardware vendor's website first, to see if they offer an updated
version too, compare the two versions and choose the latest one, which will
likely be the hardware vendor's version. however, keep in mind, the version
offered by Microsoft has been *tested* and *certified*, the one on the
vendor's website may not have been."

please read more carefully next time

i maintain, the drivers available via WU are perfectly safe to use. they
are coded and built by the hardware vendors, tested and certified by MSWHQL
and made available to WU.

 

[Greg R]

A mvp agrees with me

Greg R

It may be offering one that is in fact older - but is 'signed' by MS
quality labs. I would always go to the web site of the makers and get
the latest driver that *they* recommend for use with XP

http://www.angelfire.com/in4/computertips/

 

[francis gérard]

A mvp agrees with me

greg, i wasn't aware this was about 'agreeing' with anyone

you asked for advice, that's what you got

btw, *anyone* can be an MVP, it's a meaningless designation and does not
necessarily imply superior technical knowledge or abilities... far from it

i think the following microsoft link best describes the MVP program:
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;MVPINTRO&style=flat

"The MVP Program is focused on our [Microsoft's] relationships to and with
customers..."

"... to help Microsoft build better products that result in more satisfied,
loyal, and passionate Microsoft customers"

notice the words, 'loyal passionate microsoft customers'

that pretty much describes the role of an MVP, not a designation i would
want myself

 

[Guest]

Which MVP? Alex didn't sound like he agreed with you.

-----Original Message-----
A mvp agrees with me

Greg R

 

[Guest]

-----Original Message-----

A mvp agrees with me

greg, i wasn't aware this was about 'agreeing' with anyone

you asked for advice, that's what you got

btw, *anyone* can be an MVP, it's a meaningless designation and does not
necessarily imply superior technical knowledge or abilities... far from it

i think the following microsoft link best describes the MVP program:
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN- US;MVPINTRO&style=flat

"The MVP Program is focused on our [Microsoft's] relationships to and with
customers..."

"... to help Microsoft build better products that result in more satisfied,
loyal, and passionate Microsoft customers"

notice the words, 'loyal passionate microsoft customers'

that pretty much describes the role of an MVP, not a designation i would
want myself

Some MVPs are very good helping people in these groups
without being Micro$nots. Unfortunately Francis, methinks
you may have done a good job above describing some of the
other MVPs above.

 

[francis gérard]

Some MVPs are very good helping people in these groups
without being Micro$nots.

agreed, there are several notable MVPs (in these groups) that i can think
of, who are technically knowledgeable, and not just about one particular
facet of some microsoft product.

Unfortunately Francis, methinks
you may have done a good job above describing some of the
other MVPs above.

don't look at me, i'm just quoting directly from Microsoft's MVP site

in fairness to MVPs though, despite the fact that some (many?) really are
'micro$nots' as you put it, from what i've read, that is Microsoft's
intention with the program anyway, it's a clever 'community-based' approach
to marketing their products and establishing customer loyalty. a Most
Valuable Professional, MVP is 'valuable' to microsoft because they are
microsoft devotees dedicated to microsoft's success, which contributes to
their own success (livelihood). secondary to that, the knowledgeable MVPs
help the lesser microsycophants with technical issues, mostly relating to
microsoft products.

now, before some MVP jumps down my throat, these are my OPINIONS. i can't
speak for an MVP, as i'm not one myself (perish the thought), and i don't
think all MVPs are microsheep either, i've met a *few* who really know their
stuff, so to speak.

btw, i think it would be helpful to dispel the commonly held misconception
that MVPs are Microsoft employees, they are not, although they do receive
'incentives' from microsoft for their involvement in the program.

 

[Alex Nichol]

ALL drivers designed for Windows XP are supposed to be 'signed', whether
obtained from WU or the vendor.

But not as having passed WHQL - and that may result in your getting a
stale one from update. The latest nvidia driver IIRC has not gone
through the lab yet, but is probably fixing something needed in the one
that has. By no means all makers drivers have been through the lab.
All that the absence of sig means is that MSoft is not going to carry
the can

 

[francis gérard]

But not as having passed WHQL - and that may result in your getting a
stale one from update. The latest nvidia driver IIRC has not gone
through the lab yet, but is probably fixing something needed in the one
that has. By no means all makers drivers have been through the lab.
All that the absence of sig means is that MSoft is not going to carry
the can

huh? do you know *anything* about WHQL? i don't think so.

 

[francis gérard]

for those wanting to know the FACTS (not conjecture) about driver updates
via Windows Update...

WU driver maintenance:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/maintain/DrvUpdate.mspx

WU driver publishing:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/winlogo/drvsign/WinUp.mspx

WHQL testing:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwtest/default.mspx

windows hardware test policies:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwtest/pages/policies.mspx

overview of driver maintenance:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/maintain/default.mspx

qualification service:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/GetStart/qualify.mspx

 

[Tom]

for those wanting to know the FACTS (not conjecture) about driver updates
via Windows Update...

WU driver maintenance:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/maintain/DrvUpdate.mspx

WU driver publishing:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/winlogo/drvsign/WinUp.mspx

WHQL testing:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwtest/default.mspx

windows hardware test policies:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwtest/pages/policies.mspx

overview of driver maintenance:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/maintain/default.mspx

qualification service:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/GetStart/qualify.mspx

And getting driver updates via WU is not recommended, as they are mostly older updates. Best to get them from the manufacturer's site.

 

[francis gérard]

And getting driver updates via WU is not recommended, as they are mostly
older updates.
Best to get them from the manufacturer's site.

not recommended by whom? provide references, as i did.

the drivers available via WU are not "mostly older versions"

did you even bother to inform yourself re. the WHQL testing and
certification, and the process by which device drivers are submitted to WU?
it doesn't take that long at all to get a driver posted to WU. in fact,
i've received ThinkPad ACPI power management drivers via WU, submitted by
IBM, weeks *before* that same driver was posted to IBM's own site. the same
has also been true for Intel network cards and chipset drivers... available
via WU before eventually showing-up on the Intel site.

did you just need to get your uninformed 2 pennies worth in... yet again,
tom?

i reiterate, driver updates via WU are rigorously tested, WHQL certified,
and submitted by the hardware vendors, themselves. these are *quality*
drivers and perfectly safe to use. yes, as i've stated already in this
discussion thread, check the hardware vendor's website first for the latest
drivers, if available, install those (WU will not offer a driver update for
a device that is up-to-date and using the correct drivers). if not
available, use the drivers offered via WU.

 

[Tom]

not recommended by whom? provide references, as i did.

the drivers available via WU are not "mostly older versions"

did you even bother to inform yourself re. the WHQL testing and
certification, and the process by which device drivers are submitted to WU?
it doesn't take that long at all to get a driver posted to WU. in fact,
i've received ThinkPad ACPI power management drivers via WU, submitted by
IBM, weeks *before* that same driver was posted to IBM's own site. the same
has also been true for Intel network cards and chipset drivers... available
via WU before eventually showing-up on the Intel site.

did you just need to get your uninformed 2 pennies worth in... yet again,
tom?

i reiterate, driver updates via WU are rigorously tested, WHQL certified,
and submitted by the hardware vendors, themselves. these are *quality*
drivers and perfectly safe to use. yes, as i've stated already in this
discussion thread, check the hardware vendor's website first for the latest
drivers, if available, install those (WU will not offer a driver update for
a device that is up-to-date and using the correct drivers). if not
available, use the drivers offered via WU.

Who cares if they are rigorously tested!

The fact remains that it is NOT recommended to get them from WU, and 99% of the experts here will tell you this.

For example: an NVidia driver resided on WU dated Dec. 2003, but newer ones (and more complete) were on Nvidia's support site that are WHQL tested and certified, and 6 months newer. It is better to check the manufacturer's website, as MS doesn't proved the newest versions. The driver I mentioned from WU broke my my setup, causing crashes, until I rollled it back, and then installed the newset Nvidia driver that is WHQL certified.

Most sites will have the latest tested drivers for their hardware, and MS doesn't except responsibility for what they post in WU anyway, and they should leave that to the MF, since they state it is the MF's responsibility to make their drivers work with Windows (i.e. newer drivers for SP2).

 

[Tom]

did you just need to get your uninformed 2 pennies worth in... yet again,
tom?

LOL, I had to catch this, being that you Alex got you, and you still needed your 2¢ worth also!

 

[francis gérard]

Who cares if they are rigorously tested!

ok, so YOU don't care...

The fact remains that it is NOT recommended to get them from WU,
and 99% of the experts here will tell you this.

facts... where? experts... whom?
you are certainly not an authority on the matter, that much is clear
please provide references

[...]

sorry to hear about your bad luck with the nVIDIA driver, that shouldn't
happen, but the potential for driver installation issues is always present,
no matter the source, this is not something specific to WU, problems could
have just as easily occured with the driver you obtained from nVIDIA's site,
there are no guarantees, but WHQL certification is a good place to start.
fortunately, i have not had a negative experience with driver updates via
WU, even with the many machines i've built and setup.

 

[francis gérard]

did you just need to get your uninformed 2 pennies worth in... yet again,
tom?

LOL, I had to catch this, being that you Alex got you,
and you still needed your 2¢ worth also!

make that my 4 cents now! ;->

 

[DL]

Winupdate drivers for both nvidea and silicon image drivers have caused
problems, they were either corrupt or faulty in some other way - info from
hw manu.site
Winupdate driver on my Sony Vaio caused an immediate device failure
I have the latest Silicon Image device driver, winupdate still shows an
older update available
Winupdate doesnt give the version of the update, merely the date - leastways
the couple I have checked -
Whilst a hardware device may have a specific chip eg in the case of nvidea
graphics the drivers from the chip manu and the hw manu ,may differ
significantly.
The winupdate drivers page should carry a warning ' updateing can cause a
device failure'. I seem to recollect that various web sites that offered a
scanning ability carried such a warning.

 

[DL]

These are the 'Facts' according to MS
But heck if you wish to bugger up yr sys go ahead

 

[francis gérard]

These are the 'Facts' according to MS

oh really, "according to MS" eh?

point me in the direction of these facts

provide informed references please, as i did

 

[Tom]

ok, so YOU don't care...


facts... where? experts... whom?
you are certainly not an authority on the matter, that much is clear
please provide references

Well, I am an authority with PC experience, and since you can search messages, or ask anyone here that contributes from vast experience, then ask them or search. It is obvious you haven't been in these groups very long, or you wouldn't say MS is soo right just because they say they test them, and you would have seen (even from actuall MS employees that participate here) that they recommend getting device drivers directly from the MF. As I stated, MS isn't going to get the latest WHQL drivers from them and post them, and they don't take responsibility for them, so why trust them.

[...]

sorry to hear about your bad luck with the nVIDIA driver, that shouldn't
happen, but the potential for driver installation issues is always present,
no matter the source, this is not something specific to WU, problems could
have just as easily occured with the driver you obtained from nVIDIA's site,
there are no guarantees, but WHQL certification is a good place to start.
fortunately, i have not had a negative experience with driver updates via
WU, even with the many machines i've built and setup.

Did you not read that I stated there are drivers there that are newer that are *WHQL* certified? Would it not be better to get the latest ones that are certified? I don't have Nvidia anymore, I use ATI on my new machine, as Nvidia dropped the ball with that crappy FX series.

 

[francis gérard]

ok, well since you consistently refuse to provide INFORMED references, tom,
we'll simply agree to disagree on this matter

anecdotally speaking, you and i can say anthing we want, but that doesn't
necessarily represent the FACTS

i've stated my experience, qualified by the many systems that i've built and
successfuly updated their drivers via WU, and i further backed-up my claims
with published and informed documentation... i have even more in case you're
interested, but i think you're more interested in arguing than anything
else, thus... i'm done! <EOF>