L
Lordy
JAD said:
No the free download 32 bit edition.
No the free download 32 bit edition.
M
Matt
JAD said:
I don't know that it will be the most widely used, but that would be
good. The goal would be for it to be widely-enough used.
There will be a different set of hackers with different motivations and
methods attacking Linux. They will have a much harder time because of
Linux's superior design (users, file ownership, root user) and because
it is open source. I expect their main approach will be to try to sneak
trojans into the system software and priveleged apps. But there is
already an improvement in the Linux development process regarding
accountability for code revisions.
M
Matt
JAD said:
Yes, things go wrong sometimes. But the hardware makers that want to
sell 15,000 Linux computers at a time to Berlin or Paris are going to
work to make sure things go smoothly. That will make things easier for
everybody.
J
JAD
it is open source. I expect their main approach will be to try to
sneak
then the coders prevail then the security people then the hackers
then the....so on and so on. How long do you think it would take you,
as a coding pro, to write a bit of programming and keep it secure,
from people who spend their every waking hour trying to bring it down?
sneak
then the coders prevail then the security people then the hackers
then the....so on and so on. How long do you think it would take you,
as a coding pro, to write a bit of programming and keep it secure,
from people who spend their every waking hour trying to bring it down?
B
Bill Turner
_________________________________________________________
I have heard that mantra sooooooo many times: "Yes, Linux used to suck
but it's *wonderful* now". I've lost count.
Been down that path too many times, pardner. Move along.
B
Bill Turner
_________________________________________________________
Duron 1 gig.
B
Bill Turner
_________________________________________________________
You have utterly missed the fact that Microsoft constantly makes drivers
available from its update website, so OF COURSE they are available after
XP originally came out.
Pay attention.
B
Bill Turner
_________________________________________________________
Never installed Linux?
That is so appallingly funny I don't know whether to laugh or throw up.
I've done NOTHING BUT install the damn thing. I just wish I could say
I've USED it. Sheesh.
J
JAD
NATIVE bill NATIVE
Bill Turner said:
M
Matt
JAD said:
Sorry, I'm a little thick, not quite following you there ...
That depends on the specifics of the problem. In some cases it would be
easy to do it right the first time. It is a lot easier if you take a
sane design approach with software layering (eg GUI separate from the
OS). And with open source, you have a lot of skeptics and students
checking your code for you. When something goes wrong, it will be fixed
sooner. Also all the code is of higher quality because it is presented
to all eyes. Everybody involved takes much more pride in his work
because anyone can see it. That is a more reliable motivation than just
making the next deadline or just cashing the next paycheck.
J
JAD
.. Everybody involved takes much more pride in his work
I think this could work, if people actually took pride in anything.
'People' , not 'persons'.
the coders have security scrambling for a patch, fix, service pak.
They hack, security reacts, they hack so on and so on. My point was
that this tennis match would still be here even if x'inux was thee OS.
Yes its different in it's structure, and would be a challenge to write
malisious code, but people climb mountains just because they are
there.
I don't want this sterile web that many seem to want. No HTML in
email, no java shockwave, active X. All this can make things
interesting, rather than this 'all one color' web/email some want. So
some of these 'security' flaws don't come from stupidity in coding,
but rather the wants of the community that has grown used to having
certain amenities.
I think this could work, if people actually took pride in anything.
'People' , not 'persons'.
Security VS the hackers and who has the upper hand when. Most times
the coders have security scrambling for a patch, fix, service pak.
They hack, security reacts, they hack so on and so on. My point was
that this tennis match would still be here even if x'inux was thee OS.
Yes its different in it's structure, and would be a challenge to write
malisious code, but people climb mountains just because they are
there.
I don't want this sterile web that many seem to want. No HTML in
email, no java shockwave, active X. All this can make things
interesting, rather than this 'all one color' web/email some want. So
some of these 'security' flaws don't come from stupidity in coding,
but rather the wants of the community that has grown used to having
certain amenities.
D
David Maynard
Ruel said:
You are quite right and I don't know why my head spun it backwards. I
meant, as you mention below, Slackware. All the more funny because I just
finished installing Suse 9.2 (my first shot at it) and it's light years
ahead of distributions like Debian in that regard.
I thought Yast was supposed to resolve dependencies. It acts like it is.
Are you saying it tries but doesn't get it right?
Yeah. They all have interesting behaviors when things don't go 'perfect'. I
had either a speck of dirt on the CD or, who knows, and Suse complained it
couldn't read a piece but the dern thing LOCKS the tray so you can't take
any corrective action.
Btw, since you apparently use Suse, how the heck do you get themes to work
in KDE? I install them through Yast and... well... and? They aren't
available in the KDE theme manager (nothing is there, AT ALL, not even
'default' like I normally see) and even when I locate the .themerc files it
says they ain't.
D
David Maynard
Matt said:
And it's was a rocky road in more ways than one. The infamous AT&T v BSD
lawsuits being an example.
Btw, Linux didn't originally plan on Linux being on anything other than an
Intel i386 machine and claimed it was doubtful it could be ported because
he had used lots of 'tricks' that were architecture specific.
That's history now but the notion that any of these things 'began' with all
the same 'ideas' and features they have now isn't realistic.
D
David Maynard
Ruel said:
Then you know linux well enough to have avoided it because, until recently,
'getting it to work' was a nightmare for most semi-normal people and
something as common as the sound card was a major challenge.
Look through some archives from those thrilling days of yesteryear and the
most common 'hurrah!' is "I GOT SOUND TO WORK!"
D
David Maynard
Ruel said:
Well, that's an argument to quit looking and use Windows/MS-Office.
For 'home' users MS-Office might not be quite so important but, as he
mentioned, in an awful lot of business environments operating without it
would be like someone who only speaks Mandarin trying to organize a trucker
convention in Alabama.
I agree. Windows help files are at the other end of the extreme with the
'help' being such things as "Is it turned on? Did you plug the cable in? I
can't help you."
Thank you! Thank you! I've been trying to make that point for years.
The other thing about 'typical' Linux help is they want to tell you
everything you never wanted to know and never will want to know.
L
Lordy
However Much of your information is still very out of date!
Eg regarding RPM. Most distros have gui updaters that can not only update
the core system but much of the bundled applications with one or two clicks
of a button. And to install a lot of software I dont even have to search
the net know where to download it from (if the rpm is supported by the
distro - which the majority of useful ones are).
So continuing to argue that windows updater is easier than rpm command line
dependancy hell, whilst a valid point in the past is irrelevant when
comparing easy of updating (and has been for at least two years, probably
more). The GUI updaters on Mandrake,Redhat,Debian are easier to use and
more wide ranging that the Windows one, as the Windows update is limited
mostly to Microsoft applications. I still have to go to a seperate and
different process to update Nero or DVDDecrypter for example.
Though if the application isnt part of the normal rpm bundle things can get
involved with rpm hell etc but this is increasingly rare, and for the
average Joe user, the easy to install bundled applications will meet the
majority (if not all) of their needs.
L
Lordy
This is one reason why a lot of your usability perceptions are out of date
However you installation issues are very relevant to you I do remember buying a PCI ADSL Modem (big mistake) that said it had linux
drivers on the box. Getting the thing working was certainly not for the
feint of heart... (because the drivers were for an older version of Linux)
http://members.tripod.com/alord/pciadsl/pciadsl.html (may be popups)
Although I got it working, it needed re-doing after each Kernel upgrade. I
quicky switched to an ethernet router after that experience. And if anyone
asked me for further information configuring this card, I advised them to
switch also!
B
Bill Turner
_________________________________________________________
Ok, if you say so. I would like to see Linux succeed, if only to keep
Mr. Gates on his toes. Competition is good, but I am so tired of being
seduced into trying Linux just one more time.
R
Ruel Smith
David said:
The big reason for that was that for a long time, Linux distros did not have
sound support turned on in the kernel by default. I have no clue why...
Most problems getting Linux to run is just a few questions away for most
people. Linux is strange to anyone that has only used Windows his/her whole
life. When they started using Windows they were equally clueless. I've
never had a problem that asking some questions didn't at least get me on
the right path to solving, and I've only run into one problem I can't
solve.
I'm no genius. I can install and use Linux will no problems and so can
anyone else as long as they run supported hardware.
R
Ruel Smith
Lordy said:
That includes drivers for the printer, sound card, and just about anything
else on the machine. With Windows, some drivers are there like nVidia
drivers, but some you have to go to the OEM's site to chase down.
And, it doesn't update all of Microsoft's applications. Office doesn't get
updated and neither does Windows Media Player. I'm not sure of Office, but
WMP looks for updates on its own, which is nice, but one stop shopping via
Windows Update would be much better. However, Windows Update has really
hurt my system in the past. Once, an update of my nVidia driver rendered my
system useless.
I've used Apt both from commandline and Synaptic and Kynpatic, and it works
beautifully, but is a pain to get configured for a beginner. Currently, I
run Mandrake which uses URPMI, and it's also very nice. Setting it up is
less painful, but it takes a lot of time for it to verify and setup each
source individually. There is no RPM dependency hell if you run these or
similar tools.
You know, I've wiped my system and gotten everything back up and running in
less than an hour with Linux. I keep a copy of my X86Config file in
my /home directory and most everything else has rc or config files present
in my /home directory which is on a seperate partition. I pop in the DVD,
run through the installer, and BAM! My system is new and my desktop is just
like I left it configured, once I put the old XF86Config file in
the /etc/X11 directory. I reinstalled Windows a couple of weeks ago and it
took a couple of days and many reboots to put it all back together again...