Registry Cleanup Software

[David R. Norton MVP]

Although you are right, this is a minimal benefit. What is the harm of
leaving the entries there? Are they causing a problem

Yes, particularly if the leftover bits are from some programs that interfere
with the installation of other programs. Installing later versions of MS
Office w/o removing earlier versions can do this, particularly if different
options are selected for the new install.

Other programs that cause problems if not removed completely are some
software firewalls and some antivirus programs. There's more I'm sure...

I think you and I would both agree that the uninstaller of any software
should remove that software completely but we both know that doesn't happen.

than the possible harm that the program may do by making other changes?

Having never seen any harm from a registry cleaner on any computer I can't
comment. It's *possible* that using a registry cleaner can damage a
computer, it's *possible* the sun will go out, I'm not going to worry about
either. As always, YMMV.

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

Please get a thesaurus and find another word besides bollox,
with is actually spelled Bollix.

Both spellings are correct.

========================================================================
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition.
2000.

bollix

VARIANT FORMS: also bollox
============================================================

Sorry, but I tried to resist but just couldn't. :-(

 

[R. McCarty]

Yeah, I know - After being designated today's Net Cop, I was
just giving a little of what I got. Just having a "Bad Day". But
Thanks for the correction.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Yes, particularly if the leftover bits are from some programs that
interfere
with the installation of other programs. Installing later versions of MS
Office w/o removing earlier versions can do this, particularly if
different
options are selected for the new install.

Using the /m and /u options for the Office setup fixes this in most cases.

Other programs that cause problems if not removed completely are some
software firewalls and some antivirus programs. There's more I'm sure...

I agree Norton and Zonealarm both have this problem. Both companies offer
free downloads to remove the entries. These downloads have the advantage of
also deleting the files the uninstaller left behind.

I think you and I would both agree that the uninstaller of any software
should remove that software completely but we both know that doesn't
happen.


Having never seen any harm from a registry cleaner on any computer I can't
comment. It's *possible* that using a registry cleaner can damage a
computer, it's *possible* the sun will go out, I'm not going to worry
about
either. As always, YMMV.

I have seen many computers that have had problems after running a registry
cleaner program in auto mode. I do occasionally use registry cleaner
programs myself. They do have a use in the hands of a knowledgeable user. My
gripe is recommending them to users without the necessary knowledge to use
them safely. I also think the claims of speeding up Windows load times and
fixing BSOD's and such are specious at best.

Kerry

 

[Lua]

Your snipping of posts you answer is really annoying and self serving. You
snip out relevant parts that often refute what your reply is saying. The OP
has to post the same thing again to answer you.

You are not obligated to read or reply. I snip so that you can see what
part I am answering.

Can you point me to a site or supply some empirical data that supports what
your saying?

No. Can you?

Lu

 

[Lua]

Although you are right, this is a minimal benefit. What is the harm of
leaving the entries there? Are they causing a problem or merely adding
milliseconds during the Windows boot process while Windows determines the
file doesn't exist? Is this a greater benefit than the possible harm that
the program may do by making other changes?

Kerry

Analysing the risks of one versus the other - yes.
L

 

[Guest]

<snipped non-relevant stuff>

--snips X many --

Wow! I seem to have touched a nerve here, to say the least, though
controversies like this are commonplace in public forums on the internet.

It appears consensus is lacking on this point. In any case, Shenan's first
reply is remarkably clear and thorough, and seems very generous. Much of it
makes sense. Some, I do already. Some is sensible, but not worth the trouble
to me, because of the limited way I use the machine.

My main interest in a registry cleaner is not system performance, but system
stability. I don't even mind an occasional crash, but the idea of a
hopelessly corrupted registry scares me. I get the impression from Shenan
that this is a rare event if the user follows basic good practices. Others
seem to differ, regarding registry corruption, however.

I'll continue to mull this question.

In the meantime, I suppose many Windows XP maintenance utilities are rather
similar to one another. I realize that many of the chores these utilities
perform are kind of silly. E.g., I think I can find my own orphan aliases,
thank you.

Given that I might elect to choose a simple maintenance utility, with the
main purpose of avoiding registry corruption, and I don't mind paying the
shareware fee, how does ACE Utilities stack up against the others?

Maybe someone knows of a website with side by side comparisons of various
maintenance utilities?

Thanks to all for your assistance. It seems likely that intentions are good,
all around.


Cheers,


Tim

 

[Kerry Brown]

You are not obligated to read or reply. I snip so that you can see what
part I am answering.

You snipped this:

" The only possible benefit is that loading Windows XP may be slightly
shorter. On any normal pc capable of running Windows XP the time difference
would be less than a couple of seconds. "

and then posted this:

" Faster boot, faster shutdown, less "blue screens of death", less hangs
etc. "

Your first point was covered in the original post. If you want to refute it
then offer proof.

No. Can you?

You are the one saying that cleaning the registry speeds things up and fixes
BSOD's. If I do nothing then there is no need to prove anything. I haven't
tried to fix anything. Also you have again snipped a relevant part of my
post.

Kerry

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

I have seen many computers that have had problems after running a registry
cleaner program in auto mode.

I never have. I'm wondering if maybe the problems are due to other factors?
I think it's not unlikely that a new user could pick up some malware or have
some other problem and then run a cleaner to see if it fixes the problem.
Then they'd bring the computer in and tell you running the cleaner was the
last thing they did.

I also think the claims of speeding up Windows load times and
fixing BSOD's and such are specious at best.

I dunno about load times, I agree it's unlikely to fix a BSOD.

 

[Guest]

DO NOT BUY IT! You've had several good answers already I see but I want to
make one VERY important point (important if you're as cheap as I am!) and
that point is that all the things that these packaged utilities do can be
done (and often MUCH better!) by freeware utilities.

There are lots of pros and cons regarding cleaning the registry but if you do
decide to do so, there are plenty of freeware applications that will do that
for you.

Personally, I don't know if cleaning the registry does any good, I do know
I've used RegScrubXP many times and it has never done any harm. Google will
find it for you if you'd like to try it.

PS, if cleaning your registry results in the melt down of your computer with
resulting explosion of the entire solar system as some here will tell you it
will, I'll be very surprised.

Thanks David,

That's a sensible answer. A bit of humor lightens the mood on the thread, too.

Personally, a modest shareware fee for a reasonably good product versus
freeware is not a big deal to me. So I don't completely understand the
all-caps "do not buy it."

I will download a presumably free copy of RegScrubXP, but I will not use it
until I learn more about the registry. If I use a registry scrubber, I will
make sure I save a restore point first. If I want to be real conservative,
I'll first get an external hard disk and hard disk cloning software.

If this thread continues, I'd appreciate less jousting and a more sober
assessment of the pros and cons of registry cleaning. In particular, how
often, in the real world, given that many users are morons, and many clever
people forget stuff and make dumb mistakes, do registries become hopelessly
corrupted? Will an occasional registry scrub make that less likely, if it's
done with a bit of care and common sense? Maybe there is no consensus. Maybe
the research has not been done.

I've seen other instances of maintenance utilities giving completely
incomprehensible advice to the user. For example, I pay my annual
subscription for Symantec Internet Security. It's constantly giving me dire
warnings not to allow this and that. I usually just allow it anyway, and
nothing bad ever happens.

If I registry cleaner worked that way, I guess I'd just quit the utility and
leave the registry alone. It's unlikely I'm ever going to study the
intricacies of the Windows XP registry. I gotta have a life.


Cheers,


Tim

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings,

I am a visitor from Planet Macintosh. I mean you no harm. Take me to your
ubergeek.

I'm not too hip to Windows, but I've gotta use an XP laptop sometimes. I
understand that savvy users get third party software to clean the junk out of
the registry now and then.

Actually, nothing could be further from the truth. "Savvy" users avoid
automated registry cleaners like the plague.

What specific problem are you experiencing that you *know* beyond
all reasonable doubt will be fixed by using a registry cleaner? If you
do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would be far better
to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the specific key(s)
and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. Why use a shotgun when a
scalpel will do the job? Additionally, the manually changing of one or
two registry entries is far less likely to have the dire consequences of
allowing an automated product to make multiple changes simultaneously.

The registry contains all of the operating system's "knowledge" of
the computer's hardware devices, installed software, the location of the
device drivers, and the computer's configuration. A misstep in the
registry can have severe consequences. One should not even turning
loose a poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully
confident that he knows *exactly* what is going to happen as a result of
each and every change. Having seen the results of inexperienced people
using automated registry "cleaners," I can only advise all but the most
experienced computer technicians (and/or hobbyists) to avoid them all.
Experience has shown me that such tools simply are not safe in the hands
of the inexperienced user.

The only thing needed to safely clean your registry is knowledge
and Regedit.exe. If you lack the knowledge and experience to maintain
your registry by yourself, then you also lack the knowledge and
experience to safely configure and use any automated registry cleaner,
no matter how safe they claim to be.

Further, no one has ever demonstrated, to my satisfaction, that the
use of an automated registry cleaner, particularly by an untrained,
inexperienced computer user, does any real good. There's certainly been
no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use of such
products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's performance
or stability.

I always use Regedit.exe. I trust my own experience and judgment
far more than I would any automated registry cleaner. I strongly
encourage others to acquire the knowledge, as well.

I've got a preview copy of Ace Utilities. It
seemed okay before it expired. I'm trying to decide whether to buy it, or to
get some other product.

Does Ace Utilities have a generally good reputation? Will it do chores like
cleaning up the registry as well as other products?

Never heard of Ace Utilities; must be an even flakier company than most
purveyors of Snake Oil cures for non-existent "problems."


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I couldn't disagree more. As usual "cut and paste" answers don't answer
the question - a reg cleaner

.... Absolute, utter rubbish.




--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Bruce Chambers]

In Windows 9x based versions of Windows the registry was used very
differently from XP. Registry cleaning was sometimes needed in older
versions of Windows. Can you tell me what the benefits are of cleaning or
compacting the registry with Windows XP?

No one has ever been able to demonstrate any such "benefit."





--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

Personally, a modest shareware fee for a reasonably good product versus
freeware is not a big deal to me. So I don't completely understand the
all-caps "do not buy it."

I've no objections to a modest shareware fee either BUT I do object to paying
for software that is available for free and works as well (or better!). The
difference is that if you buy shareware or commercial software you're usually
getting a suite of programs. That may or may not be a good thing, usually
there are freeware programs that will do all the things the suite will do but
you have to hunt them down. It seems to me that you'd be paying for a little
convenience when a few searches on Google might find you everything you need.

I will download a presumably free copy of RegScrubXP, but I will not use it
until I learn more about the registry. If I use a registry scrubber, I will
make sure I save a restore point first.

RegScrubXP is typical of those cleaners I've seen in that it will do
absolutely nothing until you tell it to do so. When you start it, it will
search and find entries that are not connected to anything. After it's done
that it will wait for you to check any that you want removed and then wait
for you to tell it to proceed. It also has the ability to restore every
thing it's removed so all you need do is read the help files before doing
anything and then decide what you want to do.

If this thread continues, I'd appreciate less jousting and a more sober
assessment of the pros and cons of registry cleaning. In particular, how
often, in the real world, given that many users are morons, and many clever
people forget stuff and make dumb mistakes, do registries become hopelessly
corrupted?

My own opinion is that the registry is not often corrupted. The problems
I've fixed are usually programs that fail to remove themselves when you use
their own uninstaller and programs that install registry files that are
unneeded for the options selected during the original install.

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

No one has ever been able to demonstrate any such "benefit."

I already have, Bruce. Personally, I beleive if people would write
uninstallers that would completely remove their own software we might not
need cleaners. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.

 

[Jim Byrd]

Hi Sensitive - As you've seen, there are a variety of opinions on this issue
(which comes up all the time in these newsgroups) on both sides. I'm going
to add mine to the fray only because in looking at the entire thread I
haven't seen the backup issue addressed in the way I'd recommend using
Erunt/Erdnt. I've have no interest in arguing the issue - this is FYI. If
you wish to search, you'll find a number of previous threads where I've done
so previously. Here's my standard post about Registry Cleaners:



In my experience all of these Reg cleaners, even the best, are fraught with
danger. I advise against using them except in one specific instance, that
is when you have one that is capable of doing specific Reg searches, and you
NEED (not just WANT) to remove the remaining traces of something that didn't
get uninstalled correctly. (and you didn't have foresight enough to install
it using Total Uninstall, http://www.martau.com/tu.html or free direct
dwnld here: http://digilander.libero.it/molearchive3/tun235.zip or here:
http://freeware4u.com/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=234, in the
first place.) (As an aside, there are, however, some third party Registry
Editors which can be of great help with both the incorrect uninstall and
with certain malware problems, especially some of theCoolWebSearch types
such as the AppInit_DLLs variant of the about:blank version of CWS, for
example. I can recommend Registrar Lite, here:
http://www.resplendence.com/reglite .)

There are a couple of specific bugs that can cause abnormal growth in either
the System or Software hives; however, they are rare, and unless these hives
in %SystemRoot%\System32\config are very, very large (in the hundreds of
megabytes), then I would council you to leave your Registry alone except for
the special circumstances I mentioned above.

I and most other MVP's that I know believe that Registry modifications of
any type are probably best done manually, very carefully, with a thorough
knowledge of what's installed on your machine, and what you're doing, and
then only when necessary. There's very little (if any!) noticeable benefit
in either space saving or speed achievable by cleaning out the Registry
except in those few cases where there's a specific problem the client is
experiencing (usually uninstall or malware related in my experience) that
needs to be fixed.

Lastly, if you must screw around with your Registry, then at least get
Erunt/Erdnt, and run it before you do the Reg clean. You'll then have a
true restore available to you. Read below to see why you might not just
using the Reg cleaner's restore:

Get Erunt here for all NT-based computers including XP:
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/ I've set it up to take a
scheduled backup each night at 12:01AM on a weekly round-robin basis, and a
Monthly on the 1st of each month. See here for how to set that up:
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/erunt.txt, and for some
useful information about this subject.

This program is one of the best things around - saved my butt on many
occasions, and will also run very nicely from a DOS prompt (in case you've
done something that won't let you boot any more and need to revert to a
previous Registry) IF you're FAT32 OR have a DOS startup disk with NTFS
write drivers in an NTFS system. (There is also a way using the Recovery
Console to get back to being "bootable" even without separate DOS write NTFS
drivers, after which you can do a "normal" Erdnt restore.) (BTW, it also
includes a Registry defragger program). Free, and very, very highly
recommended.

FYI, quoting from the above document:

"Note: The "Export registry" function in Regedit is USELESS (!) to make a
complete backup of the registry. Neither does it export the whole registry
(for example, no information from the "SECURITY" hive is saved), nor can the
exported file be used later to replace the current registry with the old
one. Instead, if you re-import the file, it is merged with the current
registry, leaving you with an absolute mess of old and new registry keys.



FWIW, the second question I usually ask clients with machine problems is
whether they've used a Registry Cleaner recently. (The first is whether
they've any non-commercial Norton/Symantic software installed or have
recently uninstalled any. )

--
Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP
My Blog, Defending Your Machine, here:
http://defendingyourmachine.blogspot.com/

"Sensitive New Age Thug" <[email protected]>
wrote in
message news:[email protected]

 

[Kerry Brown]

I never have. I'm wondering if maybe the problems are due to other
factors?
I think it's not unlikely that a new user could pick up some malware or
have
some other problem and then run a cleaner to see if it fixes the problem.
Then they'd bring the computer in and tell you running the cleaner was the
last thing they did.

That could certainly be the case. Most of the people using this type of
software tend to be tweakers that don't really understand what they are
doing. They may have caused the problem themselves. I just don't see any
great benefit and the downside is possibly bad enough that the benefit would
have to be much greater for me to recommend it.

Kerry

 

[Plato]

Although you are right, this is a minimal benefit. What is the harm of

OK its agreed. He's "right". And its agreed, there is "benefit".

leaving the entries there? Are they causing a problem or merely adding
milliseconds during the Windows boot process while Windows determines the
file doesn't exist? Is this a greater benefit than the possible harm that
the program may do by making other changes?

The best registry cleaners are very conservative, and only target calls
to files that dont exist. There is mimimal risk in using such cleaners
for above average pc users. However, it's also true that registry
cleaners should NOT be recommended to the general public as a "needed"
and/or "required" util that one should have on their pc.

 

[Lua]

Bruce Chambers wrote:

Never heard of Ace Utilities; must be an even flakier company than
most purveyors of Snake Oil cures for non-existent "problems."

This just about sums you up Bruce. Lift your head out of the sand and
come back to the real world and you might have something to offer.

Lu

 

[Lua]

.... Absolute, utter rubbish.

Thnx for your helpful and thoughtful reply!
Well, the OP was labelled a novice, so I doubt he could understand half
of the pasted answer. The way to go has to be a decent reg cleaner like
JV16. On the way he'll learn a lot and hopefully feel proud of his progress.
Lu

Lu