registry cleaners

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sammy Castagna
  • Start date Start date
It's part of the process when using disk cleanup, it's hidden, but
they also include it in their Windows Live OneCare scanner
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/default.htm which is not. Now
why would they do that if it is not needed. You also need to learn
that MS is not responsible for 3rd party software and their failure
to completely uninstall the crap they put in. Any left over crap in
the registry whether it is used or not is corruption. Would you leave
little bits of malware files or virus file entries in your registry?
How would you even know they are there without the use of a registry
cleaner. There is no such thing as a lucky guess.

A lot of people don't realize it, but simply restarting your XP computer
3 times in succession is a form of "registry cleaning". It's always
surprising people that a machine can fix itself; but the 3 Restarts is
one way to speed up that process. There is more than registry work
going on, but it's interesting none the less.
If you want to see something intresting, try this search phrase at
Google:
xp +"restart three times"
Enter it exactly as it is typed, including the + and quotes. I was
going to grab a reference URL but then I saw all that - close enough for
gvt work<g>; I didn't feel like hunting thru more pages for what I
wanted.

Twayne
 
Sammy said:
A registry cleaner - even a safe one, should such ever be
developed - is an exercise in, at best, futility.

Several exist now.

There is no real
need for registry cleaners, other than to provide a profit to their
manufacturers. On rare occasions, registry cleaners can be, in the
hands of a skilled technician, useful, time-saving diagnostic tools.
Otherwise, they're nothing but snake oil.

Untrue. What are your reasons for saying that, and citeable evidence
that it's true?
Remember, the registry is an *indexed* database. The OS doesn't have
scan through each and every registry entry to find the one that it's
looking for. To use an imperfect analogy, try thinking of the
registry as a book with a very detailed table of contents. Once the
OS knows to which "page" it must turn to find the information needed,
the OS goes *directly* (much more so than you or I could do with a
physical book) to the pertinent data. The number of intervening
"pages, paragraphs, and words" is utterly irrelevant.

Well, I think that's called an Index in most books, not a TOC, and it's
only partially true. You don't just look at an index and know
immeidately where to go.
The "registry" is not just one "thing" in the computer. It's
comprised of many, many files spread out in mostly one folder, but not
completely.

You have to GET the index name/location, then go through the index to
LOCATE it so you'll know its memory location, assuming it is in memory
at that time and doesn't need to be paged in, then you have to go TO
that location, read it, and from there execute possibly another five or
six hundred more accesses to get the information that goes WITH that
first index, so the OS knows whether you have permission to access it,
what format it's in, how to present it to you, put together what needs
to be drawn on the screen from another several hundred points within the
registry, and finally display it and see what you want to do next with
it. Now, some forms of errors in the reigstry are going to take twenty
seconds to time out, so for every one of those you come acruss, usually
during boot, add twenty seconds for each one.
And all that's happened so far, under the right circumstances, is
displayed something on the screen or picked up some further instructions
that need to be processed all over again in much the same way.
registries are multi-megabit collections of data spread out amongst
several files, all extensionless files with the exception of ntuser.dat,
and the amount of data and manipulation is happening constantly in the
background.

If you'd like a quick look at what goes on inside your "registry", there
is a free file called Regmon you can download from:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896652.aspx
that will show you most of what's happening.
Caveat: Don't let it run too long. It will create a hormongously large
file unless you turn on some filters or limit it.
<quote>RegMon is a Registry monitoring utility that will show you which
applications are accessing your Registry, which keys they are accessing,
and the Registry data that they are reading and writing - all in
real-time. This advanced utility takes you one step beyond what static
Registry tools can do, to let you see and understand exactly how
programs use the Registry. With static tools you might be able to see
what Registry values and keys changed. With Regmon you'll see how the
values and keys changed..

RegMon works on Windows NT/2000/XP/2003, Windows 95/98/Me and Windows
64-bit for x64.

<end quote>

There are better applications for this purpose, but Regmon makes the
point I want. And keep in mind it's not showing ALL of the registry
activity - only that of your applications, but it's all of their
activity w/r to the registry.

So, the "directly" comment is pretty much a moot point. Directly
several thousands or hundreds of thousands of times is more like it.

The only time the sheer number of registry entries matters, and
can possibly affect performance, is when one is doing something that
requires a full entry-by-entry scan of the registry.
....

THAT is a load of BS; you either know that or are a lot more ignorant
than I gave you credit for.

I would not be so adamant with your phony claims if you ever had the
decency to ever provide ANY verifiable or even empirical evidence of
your claims. You asked me for mine and I gave them to you long ago; I
finally came across them the other day in my archives when I was looking
for some thing else. You chose to be a black hole. You remain that
black hole to this day. You are either a huge narcissist with a fragile
ego or intentionally ignorant.

You were scared off by the proposal I made to you to work this out,
along with my promise of having an open mind about your inputs. But you
apparently feared the results and thus black-holed again. That offer no
longer stands - you are a bona-fide bum and that's all there can be to
it.

Twayne
 
Sammy said:
Are registry cleaners a good idea or bad? I have done some reading and some
say they are bad and some say they are bad. Has any one here had any
experience with them good or bad. Or are they even necessary looks like
Microsoft would build it into the operating system if it were needed.

Sammy Castagna

Hello Sammy,

I would like to start by apologizing in the event that you
find this answer offensive.

Registry cleaners within themselves are a good idea. The
problem is that a lot of people either don't know how to use
a registry cleaner or they want one that does everything
'automatically'.

Defragmenting and compacting and removing unused entries in
your registry will in fact make your machine run more
efficiently. The problem is that if you delete an important
entry it can cause problems with your system.

When certain 'experts' tell you that registry cleaners are
snake-oil, what they are really saying is "The average user
is too stupid or lazy to verify entries before deleting them
and most registry cleaners that work 'automatically' can
stupidly delete important entries because they don't
recognize what they are referring to."

I think that it is insulting that experts prefer to say to
the user "you are stupid or lazy so just play it safe."

I think 'experts' should take the time to answer questions
and help people learn how to properly maintain their computer.

Sincerely,
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services

Web site: http://csdcs.site90.net/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)90.net
 
From: "Bruce Chambers" <[email protected]>



| I'm aware of that.



| Exactly, and the troll was lying.





| Agreed. I've never thought of Live OneCare, or any other web-based
| subscription service as a good idea. But now that Microsoft has decided
| to milk people's superstitious "desire" for a registry cleaner, it's an
| even worse deal. Instead of being something that one simlpy doesn't
| recommend, Live OneCare is now something whose use competent and
| conscientious technicians will have to actively recommend against.


| --

| Bruce Chambers

Roger that Bruce !
 
From: "Unknown" <[email protected]>

| Why on earth do you insist on making an ass of yourself? Please explain.
| Week after week it's the same.

It's because of the brain injury he suffered when the NASA JPL commuter van fell down a
200 foot ravine and he had to be air lifted to the hospital.
The guy is sick in the head and he's lost comprehension of right and wrong.

It is all very sad....
 
Hello Sammy,

I would like to start by apologizing in the event that you
find this answer offensive.

Registry cleaners within themselves are a good idea. The
problem is that a lot of people either don't know how to use
a registry cleaner or they want one that does everything
'automatically'.

Defragmenting and compacting and removing unused entries in
your registry will in fact make your machine run more
efficiently. The problem is that if you delete an important
entry it can cause problems with your system.

When certain 'experts' tell you that registry cleaners are
snake-oil, what they are really saying is "The average user
is too stupid or lazy to verify entries before deleting them
and most registry cleaners that work 'automatically' can
stupidly delete important entries because they don't
recognize what they are referring to."

I think that it is insulting that experts prefer to say to
the user "you are stupid or lazy so just play it safe."


Sorry, but I completely disagree with most of your message. Your
statements "Registry cleaners within themselves are a good idea" and
"Defragmenting and compacting and removing unused entries in your
registry will in fact make your machine run more efficiently." In
fact, registry cleaning does not accomplish that or anything else
useful. It is a wasted effort, and more of a risk than anything else.
 
C.Joseph Drayton said:
Hello Sammy,

I would like to start by apologizing in the event that you
find this answer offensive.

Registry cleaners within themselves are a good idea. The
problem is that a lot of people either don't know how to use
a registry cleaner or they want one that does everything
'automatically'.

Defragmenting and compacting and removing unused entries in
your registry will in fact make your machine run more efficiently.

That is utter BS. (Besides which, the terminology of "run more
efficiently" is in itself meaningless, ambiguous, and completely
unscientific.
The problem is that if you delete an important
entry it can cause problems with your system.

THAT statement is at least true.
 
Gerry said:
I'm aware of that.




Exactly, and the troll was lying.

But since you like throwing the word around so much, you are also lying
and have done so repeatedly.
 
Sammy said:
Hello Sammy,

I would like to start by apologizing in the event that you
find this answer offensive.

Registry cleaners within themselves are a good idea. The
problem is that a lot of people either don't know how to use
a registry cleaner or they want one that does everything
'automatically'.

Defragmenting and compacting and removing unused entries in
your registry will in fact make your machine run more
efficiently. The problem is that if you delete an important
entry it can cause problems with your system.

When certain 'experts' tell you that registry cleaners are
snake-oil, what they are really saying is "The average user
is too stupid or lazy to verify entries before deleting them
and most registry cleaners that work 'automatically' can
stupidly delete important entries because they don't
recognize what they are referring to."

I think that it is insulting that experts prefer to say to
the user "you are stupid or lazy so just play it safe."

I think 'experts' should take the time to answer questions
and help people learn how to properly maintain their computer.

Sincerely,
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services

Web site: http://csdcs.site90.net/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)90.net

That's a refreshingly lucid comment amongst all the trash-talk going on
here. KUDOS to you.
 
Hello Sammy,

I would like to start by apologizing in the event that you
find this answer offensive.

Registry cleaners within themselves are a good idea. The
problem is that a lot of people either don't know how to use
a registry cleaner or they want one that does everything
'automatically'.

Defragmenting and compacting and removing unused entries in
your registry will in fact make your machine run more
efficiently. The problem is that if you delete an important
entry it can cause problems with your system.

When certain 'experts' tell you that registry cleaners are
snake-oil, what they are really saying is "The average user
is too stupid or lazy to verify entries before deleting them
and most registry cleaners that work 'automatically' can
stupidly delete important entries because they don't
recognize what they are referring to."

I think that it is insulting that experts prefer to say to
the user "you are stupid or lazy so just play it safe."


Sorry, but I completely disagree with most of your message. Your
statements "Registry cleaners within themselves are a good idea" and
"Defragmenting and compacting and removing unused entries in your
registry will in fact make your machine run more efficiently." In
fact, registry cleaning does not accomplish that or anything else
useful. It is a wasted effort, and more of a risk than anything else.[/QUOTE]

As is, I suppose ANY Microsoft application, considering all the
writes/reads/revisions happening constantly to the registry. Why is it
bloatware makes heavy use of the registry while some of the best and
most efficient applications hardly touch the registry except for the
required add/remove entry? I'll give MS credit for one thing: It might
be crapware when it's first released but they do keep on
updating/fixing/updating/obsoleting/upgrading/obsoleting/updating until
it almost becomes stable and then they move on to the next unstability
in their queue.
Good registry maintenance is no different than any other well written
and stable application. Wondows corrupts its own files a lot more often
than a good registry cleaner causes any problems and such cleaners can
reverse their changes, something windows is terribly inefficient at
doing when you discover the Restore Points of all 5 drive partitions you
have being monitored by default when only ONE is necessary, is
corrupted, too and restore won't work.
You can have the opinion that it's totally wrong, that's your
perogative; bue it's not totally wrong. But your comments, IMO,
certainly are.
 
C.Joseph Drayton said:
That is utter BS. (Besides which, the terminology of "run more
efficiently" is in itself meaningless, ambiguous, and completely
unscientific.

Then add some definitions, facts, and scientific and verifiable
information to support your claims. Or come down off the mountain and
get some good air.
THAT statement is at least true.

Right: Delete the right entry, file, byte, bit nibble, whatever, and it
can cause problems with your system. So, how's that different than any
other application or program? It's true of everything eventually, but
no more often with cleaners than your favorite application. Walk around
the tree and see the forest.
 
The said:
Microsoft does include a registry cleaner in its OS. Why include it if it is
not necessary. Registry cleaners are needed and anyone who tells you
differently does not have the expertise and/or experience in the windows
registry or registry cleaners in general. That said you should not have to
pay for any. CCleaner is a good free registry cleaner which does an
excellent job cleaning the registry http://www.ccleaner.com/. It is also
user friendly and shows you each and every thing it is going to remove and
gives you the option remove it or not. It also does backups.

pcbutts1 under any name, including Real Truth nonsense, has never been
and never will be an MVP. Don't trust info from known liars.
 
Sammy said:
Are registry cleaners a good idea or bad? I have done some reading and some
say they are bad and some say they are bad. Has any one here had any
experience with them good or bad. Or are they even necessary looks like
Microsoft would build it into the operating system if it were needed.

Sammy Castagna

Do you have a backup & restore plan in place? When (and not if) the
registry cleaner corrupts your registry and when you can no longer boot
into Windows, just how are you going to restore that OS partition so it
is usable again? Even if you use a registry cleaner that provides for
backups of its changes so you can revert back to the prior state, how
are you going to perform that restore if you cannot boot the OS after
hosing over its registry? What about entries in the registry that look
to be orphaned under the current OS load instance but are used under a
different OS environment? You delete what looks orphaned only to find
out that they are required under a different environment.

Say there was an unusually high amount of orphaned entries in your
registry, like 4MB. By deleting the orphaned entries, you would speed
up how long it takes Windows to load the registry's files when it starts
up - by all of maybe 1 second. Oooh, aaah. All that risk of modifying
the registry to save maybe a second, or less, during the Windows
startup. Most folks that clean the registry end up deleting only 10KB,
or less. They are doing nothing to improve their Windows load time.
Since the registry is only read from the memory copy of it, and since
memory is random access, there is no difference to read one byte of the
registry (in memory) from the another byte in the registry (also in
memory). The extra data in memory for orphaned entries has no effect on
the time to retrieve items from the memory copy of the registry.

Cleaning the registry will NOT improve performance in reading from the
memory copy of the registry. The reduced size of the registry's .dat
files might reduce the load time of Windows by all of a second and
probably much less. And you want to risk the stability of your OS for
inconsequential changes to its registry? The same boobs that get
suckered into these registry cleanup "tools" are the same ones that get
suckered into the memory defragment "tools".

A registry cleaner should only be used if you yourself can correctly
cleanup the registry. The cleaner is just a tool to automate the same
process but you should know every change that it intends to make and
understand each of those changes. After all, and regardless of the
stagnant expertise coded into the utility, *YOU* are the final authority
in what registry changes are performed whether you do it manually or
with a utility. If YOU do not understand the proposed change (which
requires the product actually divulge the proposed change before
committing that change), how will you know whether or not to allow that
change?
 
Twayne said:
A lot of people don't realize it, but simply restarting your XP computer
3 times in succession is a form of "registry cleaning".

Nonsence.

John
 
You summed it up perfectly when you said "good registry maintenance is no
different than any other well written and stable application". WELL WRITTEN
AND STABLE APPLICATIONS NEED NO MAINTENANCE.
 
Twayne said:
Too lazy to look it up? It's right there in black and white on the MS
site for you.

Are you too lazy to provide links to support your claim? Don't expect
us to go on a wild goose chase on the internet looking for figments of
your imagination! Rebooting a computer 3 times (or 54,000 times) does
not clean the registry, you are the one who made the claim so it is up
to you to provide supporting information, it is not up to us to validate
your claims, put up or shut up.

John
 
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