Reasons Why you should not Migrate to Windows Vista

[Guest]

1. UAP. User account protection. This annoying feature will have you
answering yes or no questions endlessly until you put it out of it's misery
in user accounts. (Turn it off for God's sake). The bad news, then, is that
UAP is a sad, sad joke. It's the most annoying feature that Microsoft has
ever added to any software product, and yes, that includes that ridiculous
Clippy character from older Office versions.

2. The 'Aero Look'. Another annoying feature. Why? Every single time I open
a program Vista informs me that it is switching to basic windows. The screen
'pops'. This is very disturbing. (I have tested this since it was named
'Longhorn'.

3. Vista requires roughly 3 times the RAM that XP uses to do the same thing.
Unless your PC is at least 3 GHz with 2 Gigs of RAM it'll move like molasses
in the wintertime.

4. The price. WHY is it so over priced? The upgrade to Vista Ultimate alone
is listed at Amazon.com for $259.00.

5. No access to basic windows files. I am locked out of folders like 'My
Documents'. Microsoft has decided that the average User is too stupid to
allow access to certain “Windows†files. This is insulting. I am offended. I
know security is an issue and all, but locking a person out of their own
document files is not the answer. The User is locked into a Roaming profile,
thus they are disallowed access.

6. Broken promises
Windows Vista was going to include a completely rewritten file system, based
on SQL Server and once called Storage+. Later renamed to WinFS, this file
system was downgraded to a "storage engine," meaning that it would, in fact,
run on top of the decades-old NTFS file system. Then WinFS was stripped out
of Windows Vista because the performance was so horrible.

7. The pain of migration. And why not just stay with Windows Xp? At least
all of my programs work. Think: what big advantage are you getting? Security?
I don't know...with a good Firewall and anti-virus you're all set.

8. EULA. The EULA on a retail copy now states that VISTA can only be
activated twice. If I decide to build a new PC a third time, Microsoft in
effect is telling me to shell out another $400.00 for Vista Premium. My
original disc becomes a very expensive coaster. XP (and all previous
WINDOWS) allowed a retail copy to be moved as many times as you wished. I
like to upgrade to the latest hardware. In the five years I have owned my
retail XP, I have gone from the original P3  P4 2gHz* P4 3gHz  P4 3.2gHz*
 dual Xeon 2.4gHz*  dual Xeon 2.8gHz  dual Xeon 3.2gHz*  dual Xeon 3.4gHz
(64bit)*. (* are new motherboards too.) That’s 8 different processors and 6
motherboards. Oh and several new hard drives along the way as well. With
Vista, I would be stuck at the P4 2gHz.



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http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/co...44d&dg=microsoft.public.windows.vista.general

 

[Phil Miller]

8. EULA. The EULA on a retail copy now states that VISTA can only be
activated twice. If I decide to build a new PC a third time, Microsoft in
effect is telling me to shell out another $400.00 for Vista Premium. My
original disc becomes a very expensive coaster. XP (and all previous
WINDOWS) allowed a retail copy to be moved as many times as you wished. I
like to upgrade to the latest hardware.

That is THE thing that is going to prevent me from moving to vista. I have
gone from
Win 3.1 to Win95
Win 95 to Win98
Win98 to Win98SE
Win98SE to WinME
WinME to WinXP
But I will NOT be going from WinXP to WinVista. If I buy a software license
then I buy a license to use that software on one computer at a time. I will
not have it dictated to me WHICH computer I use it on, and if the next
version has the same limitation, I won't be upgrading then either. Seems
like a mighty good reason to BOYCOTT if you ask me.

 

[Brian K]

I think Microsoft made a mistake by making WinXP so good. It suits me and I
won't be upgrading.

 

[Guest]

Yeah!, not 2 seconds on this web site for the first time and I already find
the typical "You can't tell me what to do, I'll use your product at little or
no cost, I don't care if you spent millions so I can have all the featrures
and benefits, you have the audacity to actually ask money for it since
millions are stealing it and that s WHY we have to take drastic measures,
thank you very much" Good to see this web site is no different than most
others. As the saying goes "no good deed will go unpunished". Thanks!

 

[Guest]

I've wanted to like Vista so much but I just haven't been able to.

Power management bugs from Beta 2 still show up in RC2 (5744). If that
doesn't erode confidence, I don't know what does.

The UI is good in areas and horrible in others. There are many areas in the
UI that are quite unintuitive.

But the deal breaker for me, and this isn't necessarily MSFT's fault, is I
have numerous programs that are designed for XP that have too many issues
with Vista and are unusable in a Vista environment.

I agree about XP being too good. It's a lean OS that just works.

 

[Phil Miller]

Yeah!, not 2 seconds on this web site for the first time and I already find
the typical "You can't tell me what to do, I'll use your product at little
or
no cost,

Should read "I'll use your product at the price you set. HOW I use that
product will be decided by me." Imagine if you went to Kroger and bought 20
lbs. of hamburger, and Kroger told you that you were only allowed to make
spaghetti with that meat. If you wanted to make lasagna you would need to
buy another 20 lb package. Next thing you know MS will be telling you that
you can not play your old XBox games on your new XBox 360 because they were
only licensed to play on one console.

I don't care if you spent millions so I can have all the featrures
and benefits, you have the audacity to actually ask money for it since
millions are stealing it and that s WHY we have to take drastic measures,
thank you very much"

Piracy is not my problem. If you want to make it your problem then have at
it.

Good to see this web site is no different than most
others.

Gee... If most others are the same that should tell you that there is a
REASON for it.

 

[Guest]

What bugs me the most about Vista are the different editions, i.e. that we
are given 'Vista Ultimate' to test which is very cool and has the whole toot,
of course it's OK for those who are testing the RC1 and RC2 which is
basically for nothing...Us testers are getting so use to the 'Ultimate
version' that won't want any other version, but sad to say the Ultimate
version will propably be very expensive for some of us to purchase and would
rather stick to Windows XP than go for anything less than 'Windows Vista
Ultimate'...Will we get any special rates?...NO! I didn't think so or am I
jumping the gun?...

 

[Alexander Suhovey]

Should read "I'll use your product at the price you set. HOW I use that
product will be decided by me."

As long as EULAs are around, second statement is not the case. It's sad but
that's fact. And it's not just Microsoft.

Imagine if you went to Kroger and bought 20 lbs.

Please stop trying to make analogies with physical entities. It does not
make any sence. Software is not a physical object you buy from vendor and
you don't own it.

 

[Guest]

Microsoft only cares about one thing $$$ money. As in how to get it, and
keep it. Microsoft is a corporation. A corporation cannot feel. It has no
heart. If it had a heart its most precious would be it's money. I wish I
could keep the Vista dream alive. But, I think it died with 'Longhorn'. I
plan on keeping XP for a long, long time.
I anticipate Microsoft will wake up sooner or later and realize that Vista
is a mistake.
For the afore mentioned reasons I started this thread. Writing this for me
is a closure. I beta tested the software since it was Longhorn.

 

[Jimmy Brush]

Hello,

This post is filled with technical inaccuracies. Although I do respect the
personal opinion of the poster about Vista, I feel obligated to respond to
some of the points made here, in order of signifigance.

5. No access to basic windows files. I am locked out of folders like 'My
Documents'. .. The User is locked into a Roaming profile,
thus they are disallowed access.

This is 100% technically inaccurate, untrue, and misleading.

What you are referring to here are application compatability "junctions"
that exist on the hard drive to allow older applications to still work in
certain scenarios - they DO NOT CONTAIN ANY FILES as they aren't even a real
folder and there are very good reasons as to why you get "access denied" if
you double-click on them, although I wouldn't have left things like this if
it were up to me.

The problem is that many of the folders have been renamed in Vista - My
Documents is now just Documents, for example - and you will need to learn
what the folder is called in Vista. Another example - Documents and Settings
is now the Users folder.

Whatever being said about roaming profiles is nonsense.

3. Vista requires roughly 3 times the RAM that XP uses to do the same
thing.
Unless your PC is at least 3 GHz with 2 Gigs of RAM it'll move like
molasses
in the wintertime.

Vista runs very well with 1 GB of ram on a 2.4 GHz system, and I doubt the
processor speed has much to do with it. As for "doing the same thing" - a
basic install of Vista does *much* more than XP - these ARE NOT THE SAME
THING.

It would be nice if every version of Windows had the exact same requirements
that the previous version did - then I would still be running my 486/DX with
4 MB of RAM that had Windows 3.1 on it. That was only 12 years ago.

It has been almost 5 years since the last release of Windows - there SHOULD
be a signifigant jump in the system requirements.

2. Every single time I open
a program Vista informs me that it is switching to basic windows.

This only happens in very rare circumstances, and I imagine the popping
issue is more hardware related than anything.

1. UAP. User account protection.

It is annoying... but is it AS ANNOYING as not being notified when a "bad"
program (as defined by YOU) runs that requests admin powers?

Think about it ... it's YOUR choice, as always. Do you want to be able to
approve or deny programs that try to control your system? OR, do you just
want to run all programs with FULL access to your computer, even if they
don't need it, and even if they abuse such access?

IN ANY CASE, it's easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy to turn it off, so not a big deal
when deciding whether to migrate or not.

7. The pain of migration. And why not just stay with Windows Xp? At least
all of my programs work. Think: what big advantage are you getting?
Security?
I don't know...with a good Firewall and anti-virus you're all set.

Application compatibility is a valid concern - you should definately run
upgrade advisor before considering upgrading to Vista.

However, there are many technical advances in Vista that would warrant an
upgrade, depending on your scenario, IN ADDITION TO security. A great place
to check them out is Microsoft technet.

A good firewall and anti-virus is a like a bandaid - improving the core
security of Windows is fixing the problem.

6. Broken promises

I don't see why this is a reason not to migrate, although it is a bit of a
letdown.

 

[Clint]

And if you don't like Kroger's rules, you're perfectly free to walk out the
door and go to the next vendor. Have fun with that!

Clint

 

[Guest]

1. UAP. User account protection. This annoying feature will have you
answering yes or no questions endlessly until you put it out of it's misery
in user accounts. (Turn it off for God's sake). The bad news, then, is that
UAP is a sad, sad joke. It's the most annoying feature that Microsoft has
ever added to any software product, and yes, that includes that ridiculous
Clippy character from older Office versions.

Can be turned off!

2. The 'Aero Look'. Another annoying feature. Why? Every single time I open
a program Vista informs me that it is switching to basic windows. The screen
'pops'. This is very disturbing. (I have tested this since it was named
'Longhorn'.

It can be turned off!

3. Vista requires roughly 3 times the RAM that XP uses to do the same thing.
Unless your PC is at least 3 GHz with 2 Gigs of RAM it'll move like molasses
in the wintertime.

Running fast here!

4. The price. WHY is it so over priced? The upgrade to Vista Ultimate alone
is listed at Amazon.com for $259.00.

Not much different that the price of XP PRO

5. No access to basic windows files. I am locked out of folders like 'My
Documents'. Microsoft has decided that the average User is too stupid to
allow access to certain “Windows†files. This is insulting. I am offended. I
know security is an issue and all, but locking a person out of their own
document files is not the answer. The User is locked into a Roaming profile,
thus they are disallowed access.

I am not having that problem

6. Broken promises
Windows Vista was going to include a completely rewritten file system, based
on SQL Server and once called Storage+. Later renamed to WinFS, this file
system was downgraded to a "storage engine," meaning that it would, in fact,
run on top of the decades-old NTFS file system. Then WinFS was stripped out
of Windows Vista because the performance was so horrible.

Designs change. If it was slowing the system down, it is probably a good
idea to remove that item. but hey, what do I know?

7. The pain of migration. And why not just stay with Windows Xp? At least
all of my programs work. Think: what big advantage are you getting? Security?
I don't know...with a good Firewall and anti-virus you're all set.

I remember a time when XP was still beta, guess what? A lot of things didn't
play well with it.
Look, not everything is going to be instantly Vista ready. It will take some
time for everything to get finished, which is why it goes to manufacturers
before it goes to the market shelf. It is a BETA for Christ sake! What do you
expect?

8. EULA. The EULA on a retail copy now states that VISTA can only be
activated twice. If I decide to build a new PC a third time, Microsoft in
effect is telling me to shell out another $400.00 for Vista Premium. My
original disc becomes a very expensive coaster. XP (and all previous
WINDOWS) allowed a retail copy to be moved as many times as you wished. I
like to upgrade to the latest hardware. In the five years I have owned my
retail XP, I have gone from the original P3  P4 2gHz* P4 3gHz  P4 3.2gHz*
 dual Xeon 2.4gHz*  dual Xeon 2.8gHz  dual Xeon 3.2gHz*  dual Xeon 3.4gHz
(64bit)*. (* are new motherboards too.) That’s 8 different processors and 6
motherboards. Oh and several new hard drives along the way as well. With
Vista, I would be stuck at the P4 2gHz.

Well, there has been word of a change in the way that the EULA will be
worded. And along with that rumor is word that they may give some way on the
2 activation rule. But the bottom line is this, you may buy the liscense, but
it is their program. they make the rules.

Let me break it down. UAP is a protective measure, that allows only a
person with administrator rights to add or remove programs, make major system
changes and run programs that may dammage your system. It can be turned off.
I, however have kids that use my computer, and it makes it much easier for me
to keep them from screwing it up. I like that protective feature, but if you
don't, simply turn it off.
Aero is a very nice visual effect. Older programs, like Media player
classic, for instance are not compatible. If you are using classic windows
programs, you may see the screen flicker while changing from one setting to
another. Just as you did in the past playing an older 256 graphic game,
changing settings. But again, the Aero effect can be turned off by changing
the settings to classic look. I mean, if Aero bothers you so, you don't have
to use it.
It is true, this OS requires more resources to run, but runs them,
seemingly more efficiently. I was running it on my notebook, that has a P4,
and 2 gigs ram. Microsoft has never made any claims that the program doesn't
require more computer to run Vista than it does XP. One of the major changes
being the requirement for a higher GPU for graphics than XP. Vista requires a
better video card, more memory, and a higher classed CPU to runn efficiently.
But then again, I remember having to do all of that for XP as well. Lets just
say that XP didn't run on my 166, and shocing 16 megs of ram either. Look,
new operating systems are built around the common computer classes that are
being sold at the time. Right now, you can hardly buy a new computer without
a P4, or high Athlon processor. The top selling computers of the day are the
Pentium Duos and Athlon 64 X2. Most of which come with at least 1 Gig ram,
and a 128 Mb Graphics card. So the new OS is built around that. Just as Win
95, Win 98, Win ME, and XP were. Why does that seem to come as a shock to you?
The new RC2, or RC1, depending on which you are running, may say
Release Candidate, but is is still a Beta. the world doesn't change
overnight, though, in the computer world, it may seem like it does. Not all
the driver manufacturers have released all the drivers for this, yet to be
released, product. Some have gotten to work early, much props to companies
like INVIDIA, REALTEK, CONEXIANT, and others who have stayed ahead of the
game. They get all my respect. But some companies like HP, and a few others
are holding out. They don't feel the need to release until Microsoft does,
and at that point, I am sure that their products will blend as well as they
always have. The same goes for software. I have been playing XP based games
and XP based utilities, and yes, some have had compatibility issues, but the
most have worked with little problem. I am sure that when Vista is released,
they will either have a decent migration tool, or the software will be
available to do that.
I was originally worried about the 2 time activation thing with Vista.
But then I got to thinking about it. This isn't telling me I can't upgrade,
change motherboards, processors, hard drives, etc. This is just telling me in
need to plan my upgrades a little more carefully.
First of all understand that Minor upgrades aren't going to require
re-activation. Swap a video card, or soundcard, modem, things like that, it
is no issue. Changing a hard drive, or processor, or whole mother board, well
that may be a little different. Now, I haven't tried it yet, but I think that
if I were to do a complete PC back-up, change the hard drive, and restore my
PC from that back up, My bet is that it will work without issue, but I have
yet to try that. when I do, I will report the results.
Needless to say, My system is pretty up to date, but I know sooner or later,
I will want to upgrade, so rather than buy a processor tomorrow and install
it that day, then buy a mother board next week and install it, I will have to
remember this and get the both at the same time, or buy them at different
times and install them at the same time. It is kind of a pain in the ass, but
so be it. They make the rules, if I want to dance the dance, I got to pay the
piper.
Look, I am not being positive for microsoft's sake. That isn't what I
am about. But lets be resonable. there are things that you aren't going to
like, there are things that you may hate. If you don't like it, by all means,
don't buy it. But looking above, I saw you having issues that I know I am not
having. Before you claim the system is fouled, you may want to make sure that
it isn't YOUR system that is fouled. If you are running a hot machine, at
least better than my machine, (Athlon 64 X2 4600+, 2 Gigs PC 4200 DDR2,
INVIDIA 6150LE, Realtek HD Audio, 250 Gb HDD) And you are running sluggish,
or you hare having video issues, you may want to re-check your system,
because something isn't working right. Because mine is efficient, fast and
stable. Looks good, runs like a dream, and other than the rendom "This is not
compatible YET" issue, I have no complaints.

Think about it..

 

[Bill Frisbee]

1.) While UAC (not UAP) can be disabled, WHY? MacOS X, Linux, BSD all
contain a very similar feature. This will PROTECT people.
People that know better can turn it off. End of story. Several press
outlets, known to be quite unfavorable to Microsoft have been saved by UAC.
On an average day I see a UAC dialogue box maybe four times.

2.) If your program switches Vista outta Aero Glass, then your application
is not fully Vista compatible. End of story.

3.) Doing what? I've NEVER noticed this. Yes, earlier BETA AND RC versions
of Vista used a lot of RAM, but those are not release version and contained
checked and incomplete code. On average Vista RC2 seems to use about as much
RAM in my various applications as XP SP2 did. I run Vista just fine on a 2.0
GHz Pentium 4 with 512 MB of RAM, doesn't run badly at all, just as good as
XP SP2 in fact.

4.) Um, for one XP has been out for FIVE years and prices have dropped
accordingly, and there are OEM versions of it available now. Retail prices
for comparable versions of Vista are LESS expensive than XP was when it was
released.

5.) You do know the My Documents no longer exists right? And I think it's
been proven time and time again, that locking out operating system files
from the average Joe is a good thing. People who know more and demand more
control of their systems can easily do so.

6.) Slippage happens. Happened in XP, happened in Vista. Took Apple two full
years of OS X to give what they promised was going to be in 10.0. And they
charged you for the upgrade to 10.2.

7.) For the same reason people moved from 3.11 to 95, 95 to 98, 98 to 2000,
2000 to XP.

8.) I cannot comment on the EULA as I have not read it yet.


Bill F.

 

[Guest]

1. Right Bill. Protect the poor uninformed User from themselves. Is that
what you mean? Obviously the end User isn't smart enough to do this on its
own, right smart guy?

2. More than half of my programs were not compatible with Vista's Aero
look. The annoying switch back and forth between Aero and Windows standard
was flaky, and more than a little annoying.

3. You are very wrong about this. There is something called 'common
sense'. Check out task manger when running the same program with Vista, as
opposed to XP. Vista does use much more.

4. I do not agree. Vista's prices are MUCH higher. The full version of
Vista Ultimate is listed as $400.00 plus at Amazon. Microsoft recently had
Amazon pull the prices, probably because they intend to raise them,
again....$$$ M$

5. Wrong. My Documents exit, I moved my Folder over from XP. It was silly
to eliminate it. Let me get this straight, in your own words...locking out
operating system files for the average joe is a good thing? Maybe in your
case, this is true.

6. Slippage? Well then, maybe the price should slip too.

7. For the same reason that people moved to say, Windows Millinium?
Everyone should remember Microsoft;s problem child. Windows Millinium was a
disgrace. So no, Just because a new OS comes out does not mean everyone
should rush in to upgrade.

8. EULA is totally unfair. Nowhere with any previous version of the
Windows OS with a retail copy the User was able to move it to a new PC, as
long as they had uninstalled the old one, or it no longer existed. Vista
represents GREED, not need, or security.

 

[Guest]

I like Bill!
You hit it on the head, with much better wording than I could.

Beers for you!

 

[RJK]

Trouble is that the "previous" Windows platform only remains usable for a
finite period of time. I kept my Windows 98se going for several years after
XP was launched, and over a period of a couple of year or so, on a 2nd PC,
gradually got up to speed with XP - and then finally moved to XP. ...and
during the following months eventually realised it was far superior to XP.
BUT, it certainly took some acclimatisation !!!!

regards, Richard

 

[RJK]

....or should all those "years" have been "months" ??

regards, Richard

 

[SESSION_EVENT]

Don't forget that Microsoft will benefit financially more from Vista at a
much greater rate and with much less outlay in material than if GM released
a complete new line of automobiles.

It is hard to feel sorry for them, really it is.

The "new" terms of the Retail EULA is an attempt to change the rules and
give only OEM EULA value to buyers who pay full Retail price. In some
countries it may even violate notions of 'fair use' written into the laws.

Don't worry then about Microsoft's profits. They were rolling in dough long
before WPA, WGA, WGA N and subscription licencing. They make inordinate
amounts for their labour expended, far more than most companies.

So it's kind of hard to accept their tightening the screws on the legitimate
customer. Boxing him or her in with more and more restrictions and invasion
of privacies, lock outs, and crummy deals. Simply for even higher
astronomical profit.

If Microsoft were profiting more on the level of a GM or Exxon or somesuch
for labour and material expended then it would be easier to understand. But
Microsoft expends only so much on labour and very very little on material
[CD and waifer thin pamplet?? Or a stack of servers for downloads?] yet
reaps so very very much.

Being in such an exaulted position, you'd think they show more respect for
the tech enthusiasts who helped put them there? But no, we get the invasive
seach, report and seizure, cop judge jury and executioner on our private
papers WGA N and a crummy new retail EULA. I suppose we could walk, but
there is no substantive competition on the x32/64 desktop because, although
they do not have a true monopoly, they have a defacto one.

Yet the PC has become almost essential for many of us.

And Microsoft can do better - and the proof is because it has. I cite what
they've done over at MSDN. They give away Express editions of SQL Server,
C#, VB, C++, J++ and web developer. Sure an MSDN subscription is pricey - a
good grand plus - but on the other hand they are accomodating to newer and
or poorer developers and/or people who only need lighter packages. Now they
may have an alterior motive [great free packages offered elsewhere] .. but
it shows what a good relationship they are capable of having with their
customer base if they want to.

And to your main point about "no cost"? I've spent thousands of dollars on
Microsoft software. Umpteen copies of Windows, MSDN subscription, 3 retail
packages of Flight Stimulator [you should try FS X - really cool], Visual
C++, retail Works, Office etc. etc. and so on and on .. even several copies
of Plus! ..

So when Vista is released it will be a sad day for the law abiding tech
enthusiast who will see an otherwise legitimate road closed and will have to
seriously curtail his or her enthusiasm and be very selective conservative
about motherboard upgrades.

 

[SESSION_EVENT]

Why not make analogy to physical entities? Microsoft "ties" the software to
hardware. Heck, in some EULAs they've talked about the software becomes
"one" with the hardware. They want it both ways with respect to restrictions
placed on you and profits achieved, but neither way when it comes to any
responsibillity.

 

[SESSION_EVENT]

What if they are the only place in town, heck in the whole country? And hold
all the patents and have a defacto monopoly? Then you starve to death.

Besides, although Kruger is a law unto itself and makes up all sorts of
rules that it publishes in its hamburger EULA, there are greater rules than
Krugers rules, including consumer protection laws and the Bill of Rights.