Proposed "Welcome to alt.comp.freeware" message

[Susan Bugher]

Proposed "Welcome to alt.comp.freeware" message

Several times in the past a weekly post has been suggested - a guide to
newbies in ACF.

This particular discussion began in the thread titled "Acf Wiki - ideas
please" and continued in a thread titled "[VP] alt.comp.freeware
information Mon Aug 23 23:30:02 2004".

In those threads Mark Carter offered to automate the posts to ACF and
Henk de Jong posted a draft of a "welcome" message.

The goals of this thread:

1. Determine if there is a consensus that such a message should be posted.

2. Review and comment on the draft and revise it as needed.

Please read the draft (copied below) and post your comments and suggestions.

TIA

Susan

*******************

Proposed "Welcome to alt.comp.freeware" message

<Quote>
"Welcome, dear reader (lurker) and/or contributor to alt.comp.freeware.

In this Usenet-group we discuss *freeware*. A definition of *freeware*
can be found at the Ware Glossary at
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php, and the FAQ of
this group at http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html. We all
highly appreciate when everybody discuss *freeware* only.

When you like to contribute to this group, we recommend that you read
the 'acf Posting Tips' first. Those tips can be found at
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Posting.php.

Once a year all members of this group (contributors and 'lurkers')
choose the best freeware programs available on the net. These elections
are held in the last quarter of each year. The results of last year's
vote can be found at the Pricelessware sites:
http://www.pricelessware.org and http://www.pricelesswarehome.org.

This Usenet-group is an unmoderated group. This means that there is no
'boss' around here. But it also means that everybody is entitled to send
an abuse to the ISP of a poster when he/she 'trolls' or 'spams' this group.

This group is one of the three groups dedicated to *freeware*. The other
groups are alt.comp.freeware.discussion (for general discussions about
freeware) and alt.comp.freeware.games (for the discussion of freeware
games).

A lot of the links to freeware programs mentioned in this group are
collected and published on the 'Links to Freeware'-page at
http://www.linkstofreeware.nl/.

This message is posted on a weekly basis and is intented to be at the
service of new visitors to this group."
</Quote>

**************

Mark Carter posted this comment on the draft:

<Quote>
Also, to throw my 2p into the pot, I think the Green Eggs Report might
also be a useful resource for people. And the link to search Google acf
would be a useful resource, too. These would be good resources to
mention. Alternatively, a good place to put them would be on a
Pricelessware(home) Resources page. The weekly message could link to
that instead.
</Quote>

FYI for those who are not familiar with it - the the Green Eggs Report
is here: http://groups.google.com/groups?group=alt.comp.freeware

*******************

 

[Jaime Littlebeaver]

Proposed "Welcome to alt.comp.freeware" message

Proposed "Welcome to alt.comp.freeware" message

<Quote>
"Welcome, dear reader (lurker) and/or contributor to
alt.comp.freeware.

In this Usenet-group we discuss *freeware*. A definition of *freeware*
can be found at the Ware Glossary at
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php, and the FAQ of
this group at http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html. We all
highly appreciate when everybody discuss *freeware* only.

When you like to contribute to this group, we recommend that you read
the 'acf Posting Tips' first. Those tips can be found at
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Posting.php.

Once a year all members of this group (contributors and 'lurkers')
choose the best freeware programs available on the net. These
elections are held in the last quarter of each year. The results of
last year's vote can be found at the Pricelessware sites:
http://www.pricelessware.org and http://www.pricelesswarehome.org.

This Usenet-group is an unmoderated group. This means that there is no
'boss' around here. But it also means that everybody is entitled to
send an abuse to the ISP of a poster when he/she 'trolls' or 'spams'
this group.

This group is one of the three groups dedicated to *freeware*. The
other groups are alt.comp.freeware.discussion (for general discussions
about freeware) and alt.comp.freeware.games (for the discussion of
freeware games).

A lot of the links to freeware programs mentioned in this group are
collected and published on the 'Links to Freeware'-page at
http://www.linkstofreeware.nl/.

This message is posted on a weekly basis and is intented to be at the
service of new visitors to this group."
</Quote>

<Quote>
Also, to throw my 2p into the pot, I think the Green Eggs Report might
also be a useful resource for people. And the link to search Google acf
would be a useful resource, too. These would be good resources to
mention. Alternatively, a good place to put them would be on a
Pricelessware(home) Resources page. The weekly message could link to
that instead.
</Quote>

I like this proposed "Welcoming Post" just as it is written. It is
concise, to the point and needs little addition or correction.

I also agree with Mark's suggestion of placing these, or any other
forthcoming, resources on the Resources Page of the respective Priclessware
sites with an "other resources" link.

Jaime Littlebeaver

 

[H.M.A. (Dick) Hazeleger]

Proposed "Welcome to alt.comp.freeware" message

Several times in the past a weekly post has been suggested - a guide
to newbies in ACF.

This particular discussion began in the thread titled "Acf Wiki -
ideas please" and continued in a thread titled "[VP]
alt.comp.freeware information Mon Aug 23 23:30:02 2004".

In those threads Mark Carter offered to automate the posts to ACF and
Henk de Jong posted a draft of a "welcome" message.

The goals of this thread:

1. Determine if there is a consensus that such a message should be
posted.

2. Review and comment on the draft and revise it as needed.

Please read the draft (copied below) and post your comments and
suggestions.

TIA

Susan

*******************

Proposed "Welcome to alt.comp.freeware" message

<Quote>
"Welcome, dear reader (lurker) and/or contributor to
alt.comp.freeware.

In this Usenet-group we discuss freeware. A definition of freeware
can be found at the Ware Glossary at
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php, and the FAQ of
this group at http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html. We all
highly appreciate when everybody discuss freeware only.

When you like to contribute to this group, we recommend that you read
the 'acf Posting Tips' first. Those tips can be found at
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Posting.php.

Once a year all members of this group (contributors and 'lurkers')
choose the best freeware programs available on the net. These
elections are held in the last quarter of each year. The results of
last year's vote can be found at the Pricelessware sites:
http://www.pricelessware.org and http://www.pricelesswarehome.org.

This Usenet-group is an unmoderated group. This means that there is
no 'boss' around here. But it also means that everybody is entitled
to send an abuse to the ISP of a poster when he/she 'trolls' or
'spams' this group.

This group is one of the three groups dedicated to freeware. The
other groups are alt.comp.freeware.discussion (for general
discussions about freeware) and alt.comp.freeware.games (for the
discussion of freeware games).

A lot of the links to freeware programs mentioned in this group are
collected and published on the 'Links to Freeware'-page at
http://www.linkstofreeware.nl/.

This message is posted on a weekly basis and is intented to be at the
service of new visitors to this group." </Quote>

**************

Mark Carter posted this comment on the draft:

<Quote>
Also, to throw my 2p into the pot, I think the Green Eggs Report
might also be a useful resource for people. And the link to search
Google acf would be a useful resource, too. These would be good
resources to mention. Alternatively, a good place to put them would
be on a Pricelessware(home) Resources page. The weekly message could
link to that instead. </Quote>

FYI for those who are not familiar with it - the the Green Eggs
Report is here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?group=alt.comp.freeware

*******************

Hi Susan, Mark, Henk and all the others reading this

Susan/Henk: I think this looks good. Nice, gentle, warm... yet full of
information! Unless I am very mistaken, this shouldn't change very
much. Since this is a "neuttral message, from a neutral person", both
PW sites should be mentioned equally, I see the balance shift to PWH
now, which I would regret... both sites have their merits.

I agree with mark that the Google link to search ACF should be in it as
well, it can save us time, *and* may lead the reader to a faster
result. If it would have to be put on the pages then preferably on
both, but I am not the webmasyter of either one of those sites, and so
far I haven't seen much friom the group in this matter.

I think this would be a nice welcome to our guests (lurkers) and new
subscribers!!!

Regards
Dick

 

[Vic Dura]

The goals of this thread:

1. Determine if there is a consensus that such a message should be posted.

I would prefer that such a message not be posted. I believe it would
be too easy to have such a mechanism metamorphose into a "charter"
that would then be under the control of a select few.

 

[Garrett]

Proposed "Welcome to alt.comp.freeware" message

Since this is an unmoderated group, I do not think that it would be
wise to make such decisions or implementations in such a manner. This
would make it seem that it's a representation of some officially
moderated group, which this is not.

But! Since people are allowed to pretty much post whatever the heck
they want, I'm sure you guys will do this anyway.

-Garrett

 

[ubab ilagnab]

Proposed "Welcome to alt.comp.freeware" message

Several times in the past a weekly post has been suggested - a guide
to newbies in ACF.

This particular discussion began in the thread titled "Acf Wiki -
ideas please" and continued in a thread titled "[VP] alt.comp.freeware
information Mon Aug 23 23:30:02 2004".

In those threads Mark Carter offered to automate the posts to ACF and
Henk de Jong posted a draft of a "welcome" message.

The goals of this thread:

1. Determine if there is a consensus that such a message should be
posted.

2. Review and comment on the draft and revise it as needed.

Please read the draft (copied below) and post your comments and
suggestions.

TIA

Susan

*******************

<snip>


This is a unmoderated newsgroup. Please let it stay unmoderated. Put up
welcome messages on your respective websites which many (if not most) of
us lurkers and others visit periodically. IMHO this is an attempt to
moderate/control an unmoderated group. I at least would like to be free
& would like to see more lively discussions here on freeware only.

 

[Chrissy Cruiser]

Since this is an unmoderated group, I do not think that it would be
wise to make such decisions or implementations in such a manner. This
would make it seem that it's a representation of some officially
moderated group, which this is not.

But! Since people are allowed to pretty much post whatever the heck
they want, I'm sure you guys will do this anyway.

A man of wisdom, charity and effort.

 

[bambam]

I think this would be a nice welcome to our guests (lurkers) and new
subscribers!!!

I agree.
It is a long overdue addition to ACF.

 

[Susan Bugher]

I like this proposed "Welcoming Post" just as it is written. It is
concise, to the point and needs little addition or correction.

I also agree with Mark's suggestion of placing these, or any other
forthcoming, resources on the Resources Page of the respective Priclessware
sites with an "other resources" link.

Hi Jaime,

The Links page: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Links.php has
resource links - including the Green Eggs Report. More suggestions are
*most* welcome.

Susan

 

[Eric]

Since this is an unmoderated group, I do not think that it would be
wise to make such decisions or implementations in such a manner. This
would make it seem that it's a representation of some officially
moderated group, which this is not.

But! Since people are allowed to pretty much post whatever the heck
they want, I'm sure you guys will do this anyway.

-Garrett

I agree with Vic and Garrett. Please don't post message.


Thanks,

Eric

 

[Mark Carter]

More suggestions are
*most* welcome.

I'm not sure if it's included anywhere, but a sensible link to have
might be the Freeware directory from Google:
http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Freeware

Whether you might want it in the resource page or weekly listing is up
to you. My thinking is that the resource page shouldn't be an attempt to
include every link about freeware, but to act as a springboard. So,
something like Henk's site would be a good candidate for the page, as it
opens up a wealth of freeware sites. The Greens Eggs, and the Google
newsgroup search would also be quite appropriate.

If there appears to be getting to be too many links in the weekly
posting, then it may be better to exclude much of it from the post, and
just point to the resources page, with a tantalising description of what
one might find. e.g. something like

Freeware Resources:
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Links.php
Your first-stop shop to resources of interest to the Freeware community.
Includes links to newsgroups, directories of freeware, software
summaries, search facilities, and more.

 

[Susan Bugher]

I would prefer that such a message not be posted. I believe it would
be too easy to have such a mechanism metamorphose into a "charter"
that would then be under the control of a select few.

Hi Vic,

There have been a number of requests for an informational message for
newbies. The group usually responds to requests for information. IMO we
should try to fulfill this request.

I would like us to furnish information about ACF in an automated weekly
posting *if* we can achieve a consensus on the contents of the post. Is
there any type of weekly post that is acceptable to you?

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

I'm not sure if it's included anywhere, but a sensible link to have
might be the Freeware directory from Google:
http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Freeware

I've been there, done that, and was not particularly impressed. Does
anyone else care to offer an opinion?

Whether you might want it in the resource page or weekly listing is up
to you.

My thinking is that the resource page shouldn't be an attempt to

include every link about freeware, but to act as a springboard.

I agree. FYI - the PWH site has *four* pages with links to online
resources:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Members.php
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Links.php
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/SearchTips.php
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Webware.php

The ACF Members page has links to ACF participants' sites. IMO a mention
of the acf Members Sites page would be very appropriate in the "welcome"
message.

The Links page is subject oriented -> information about ACF and our two
sister newsgroups; information about adware, spam, security etc.

The recently added Search Tips page has links that are freeware oriented
-> FTP files searches, sites that list freeware updates etc. I want to
add search tips from ACF participants => how to use Google effectively
when searching for freeware apps etc. etc.

The Webware page has links to sites with online software.

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

I agree with Vic and Garrett. Please don't post message.

Hi Eric,

Your objection is noted but not understood. The message *includes* this
statement. "This Usenet-group is an unmoderated group. This means that
there is no 'boss' around here."

This is an unmoderated newsgroup. The Pricelessware List is a group
santioned project. Should we cease to have a Pricelessware List?

That seems to be where the objection leads us. . . we should not have
any group activities. . .

Susan

 

[REM]

Susan Bugher <[email protected]> wrote:

I would like us to furnish information about ACF in an automated weekly
posting *if* we can achieve a consensus on the contents of the post. Is
there any type of weekly post that is acceptable to you?

The draft looks good to me.

This isn't moderation, it's an answer to frequently wondered questions
new people might have.

 

[James]

I agree.
It is a long overdue addition to ACF.

I agree too. And I cannot understand the objections which imply posting
this information is 'moderating' the group. On the contrary, IMO saying
this 'Welcome message' should not be posted is more like an attempt to
moderate the group.

 

[FadedGlory]

I agree too. And I cannot understand the objections which imply posting
this information is 'moderating' the group. On the contrary, IMO saying
this 'Welcome message' should not be posted is more like an attempt to
moderate the group.

I agree with James..

FD

 

[Henk de Jong]

Since this is an unmoderated group, I do not think that it would be
wise to make such decisions or implementations in such a manner. This
would make it seem that it's a representation of some officially
moderated group, which this is not.

But! Since people are allowed to pretty much post whatever the heck
they want, I'm sure you guys will do this anyway.

-Garrett

Garrett,
I hope that I can convince you that this group will stay unmoderated,
no matter if this message is posted weekly or not. It always was, it
now is and it will always stay unmoderated. This is also a part of the
message (there is no boss around here).

The intention of this message is only for service of new readers and
contributers to this group. I hope that this message will encourage
readers to actually participate in this group.

Besides this, I really don't see how this group will ever become
moderated. As soon as this happens a lot of contributors of today will
leave, included myself.

With kind regards,

--
Henk de Jong
The Netherlands
(e-mail address removed) (Remove _NO_SPAM_)
'Links to Freeware'
http://www.linkstofreeware.nl/
http://www.linkstofreeware.vze.com/
http://home.hccnet.nl/hmdejong/

 

[Susan Bugher]

The draft looks good to me.

This isn't moderation, it's an answer to frequently wondered questions
new people might have.

So far we don't seem to have a consensus. I don't remember anyone
objecting to the *idea* of a "welcome" post before.

I'm *guessing* that some objections stem from the inclusion of phrases
like "we recommend" and "We all highly appreciate when". I'll propose
revisions if that will help us reach a consensus.

Susan

 

[Vic Dura]

Your objection is noted but not understood. The message *includes* this
statement. "This Usenet-group is an unmoderated group. This means that
there is no 'boss' around here."

The message includes the caveat *now*. How do you assure folks that it
will always be there?

It's an un-moderated group, so if you want to post it, go ahead. If it
begins to look like another power-grab, then we can get back into the
old contentions again.