alt.comp.freeware information 16 December 2004

[Mark Carter]

This is the ALT.COMP.FREEWARE newsgroup. FREEWARE posts are welcome.

alt.comp.freeware (ACF, acf) is one of three groups dedicated to freeware. The other groups are:
alt.comp.freeware.games (ACFG)
alt.comp.freeware.discussion

Search alt.comp.freeware
http://google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware

Pricelessware information
http://www.pricelessware.org
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org

acf information
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Index.php

acf Members Sites
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Members.php
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/linksacf.htm

acf FAQ
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

acfWiki
http://www.markcarter.me.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?AcfWiki

 

[My Name]

alt.comp.freeware (ACF, acf) is one of three groups
dedicated to freeware. The other groups are:
alt.comp.freeware.games (ACFG) alt.comp.freeware.discussion

Shouldn't you include alt.binaries.freeware ?

 

[omega]

Shouldn't you include alt.binaries.freeware ?

I've had the same thought.

I consider ABF as more significant than ACFD. Since it serves a unique
role. (In contrast, ACFD has no purpose currently defined distinctively
from that for ACF. ACFD was born as a discussion group companion for a
binary group: ACF had binaries in its pre-history.)

I vote yes on mentioning ABF as part of that list.

Whether to concurrently make mention that ABF and ACFD are not universally
carried on a number of servers, that's a different matter, would have to
weigh that against the Info post's goal of brevity....

One extra advantage to making sure ABF is on the list. It might help for
making it clear that binaries are to be posted only in groups designated
for that use. I don't have consciousness of ACF getting hits with many
attempts, since Cleanfeed drops most evidence of that activity -- but
I would suppose it does go on. Thus implicit hints for newbies might be
helpful.

 

[Mark Carter]

I've had the same thought.

I'm happy to incorporate the addition if that's what people want. And so
far, there is unanimous agreement to the change.

 

[Roger Johansson]

Whether to concurrently make mention that ABF and ACFD are not
universally carried on a number of servers, that's a different matter,
would have to weigh that against the Info post's goal of brevity....

One extra advantage to making sure ABF is on the list. It might help
for making it clear that binaries are to be posted only in groups
designated for that use.

Binaries newsgroups are not available for most people, and the binaries
newsgroups are being abolished by an increasing number of news servers.
It is a stupid and messy way to distribute binaries, that is why it is
being abolished.

So let's forget about binaries newsgroups. Binaries can easily be
distributed via free web space instead.

 

[Roger Johansson]

I'm happy to incorporate the addition if that's what people want. And
so far, there is unanimous agreement to the change.

Don't fool people into thinking that distributing binaries via usenet is
a good idea.

Even the people who have access to binaries newsgroups often have trouble
finding all the parts of a certain file, and those who use a modern and
well kept newsserver have no binaries newsgroups at all.

If somebody wants to recommend using binaries newsgroups he should tell
us where to find a reliable and free newsserver which carries the
binaries newsgroups, to begin with.

There is no such news server, as far as I know.
And even if it existed today it would be gone tomorrow.

 

[omega]

[re alt.binaries.freeware being included in the list of freeware groups]

Binaries newsgroups are not available for most people, and the binaries
newsgroups are being abolished by an increasing number of news servers.

Probably so, but same time, witness the commercial success of specialized
news servers to satisfy what has proven to be a very strong desire by some
users to exchange binaries over NNTP. Those who do have access to the group
would likely want to know about their option.

It is a stupid and messy way to distribute binaries, that is why it is
being abolished.

So let's forget about binaries newsgroups. Binaries can easily be
distributed via free web space instead.

On an ACF page, or in a FAQ, there could be suggestions on the various
ways to upload binaries. Such as by ftp to personal webspace, or by use
of one of those web services like yousendit.

The mention of ABF in the list, to me, does not translate into an advocacy
of its usage over other means of binary uploads. It is an informational
list only. Just as the inclusion of ACFD is there. ACFD is not a good group
to point people towards -- if they want a wide audience for there question.
Yet it, like ABF, is one of the freeware groups in the alt.* hierarchy. As
I read it, the four groups all belong in such a neutral listing as provided
by the ACF info post.

 

[jo]

Don't fool people into thinking that distributing binaries via usenet is
a good idea.

Binary newsgroups are fun, though. And they don't seem to be going
away; the servers just keep buying more and more storeage

Even the people who have access to binaries newsgroups often have trouble
finding all the parts of a certain file,

The vast majority of the time it is really not that difficult

and those who use a modern and
well kept newsserver have no binaries newsgroups at all.

That is a circular definition.

If somebody wants to recommend using binaries newsgroups he should tell
us where to find a reliable and free newsserver which carries the
binaries newsgroups, to begin with.

Why should 'free' be a criterion?

There is no such news server, as far as I know.
And even if it existed today it would be gone tomorrow.

Teranews is still going AFAIK, and is as close to free as makes no
difference. (4 dollars for life and a 50MB day cap.)
Octanews lets you buy in GB chunks rather than a monthly acc and is a
highly respected outfit. I still have loads left on my cheap Octa
account.
I think, but am not sure, that Claranews has decent European coverage.
30GBP a year for a very reliable newsserver that has a 10GB a month
cap.
I've been with Claranews since it was first in Beta and it remains the
best value UK newsserver.

 

[Susan Bugher]

omega <[email protected]> wrote:

[re alt.binaries.freeware being included in the list of freeware groups]

On an ACF page, or in a FAQ, there could be suggestions on the various
ways to upload binaries. Such as by ftp to personal webspace, or by use
of one of those web services like yousendit.

IMO the ACF wiki would be a good spot for this info. Could you do the
write-up?

The mention of ABF in the list, to me, does not translate into an advocacy
of its usage over other means of binary uploads. It is an informational
list only. Just as the inclusion of ACFD is there. ACFD is not a good group
to point people towards -- if they want a wide audience for there question.
Yet it, like ABF, is one of the freeware groups in the alt.* hierarchy. As
I read it, the four groups all belong in such a neutral listing as provided
by the ACF info post.

I think of ACFD as the chat room. (Maybe we should call it that.)

FWIW I'm lukewarm on the suggestion of mentioning alt.binaries.freeware
in the post - not opposed (but not enthusiatic either).

Mark, I suggest you send add the ACFG link:

alt.comp.freeware.games information
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acfg/acfg.php

and send the information posts to all three acf groups.

Susan

 

[omega]

omega <[email protected]> wrote:

[re alt.binaries.freeware being included in the list of freeware groups]

On an ACF page, or in a FAQ, there could be suggestions on the various
ways to upload binaries. Such as by ftp to personal webspace, or by use
of one of those web services like yousendit.

IMO the ACF wiki would be a good spot for this info. Could you do the
write-up?

I nominate Roger.

I think of ACFD as the chat room. (Maybe we should call it that.)

I think of it that way, thought the word to me is watercooler. (MSPG used
to have a newsgroup with watercooler in its name, to provide an area
for folks to just hang out socially, and chat about the weather, etc.)

ACFD is not a good group to get a lot of response for freeware questions,
due to its very low traffic. It does seem to serve folks from ACF who
occasionally want a break from the big city hustle & intensity of the
main group, but without breaking away from contact altogether with
freeware aficionados.

FWIW I'm lukewarm on the suggestion of mentioning alt.binaries.freeware
in the post - not opposed (but not enthusiatic either).

The Intro post lists freeware groups and it is a freeware group. There is
also my argument that it might help to illustrate that binary posters have
a separate group for that purpose, to not try to post binaries to ACF. Don't
know how small an argument that might be, though.

Btw, about the intro line: "one of three groups dedicated to freeware." To
really put that under the magnifying glass, doesn't that read that there
are only three groups dedicated to freeware? That which is not the case.
Not just that there is ABF, but there are also groups in other hierarchies.
The French language hierarchy has one, for instance. And while I couldn't
find one for the DE.* hierarchy, it was hard to believe, given how much
geek stuff goes on there, that they do not have one. Then there are who
knows what other groups outside of strict usenet (or those on individual
servers: like when lockergnome did nntp groups, I think they had one for
freeware).

All that said, a satisfactory replacement line does not occur to me.
Hoping to inspire someone else.

Back to the inclusion of ABF. Now that Roger has spoken out against it,
we're no longer at a majority. I'll hope that over the days, a few more
folks will voice a vote. This matter is not a big deal to most, including
not even to me -- but maybe some will step up to shrug their shoulders at
one slight angle or another.

Reiterating my position. It is an informational line, indicating which
groups exist (in the alt hierarchy) with purpose dedicated to ABF. Listing
ABF is part of that information. Neutral. To pointedly omit it, censoring
it off, feels slightly odd to me.

 

[omega]

[edit]

groups exist (in the alt hierarchy) with purpose dedicated to ABF.

... with purpose dedicated to freeware.

 

[Roger Johansson]

Reiterating my position. It is an informational line, indicating which
groups exist (in the alt hierarchy) with purpose dedicated to ABF.
Listing ABF is part of that information. Neutral. To pointedly omit it,
censoring it off, feels slightly odd to me.

If binaries groups are mentioned I think the same text should also
explain that only some people have access to binaries groups, so if
somebody wants to distribute something they should be aware that a lot of
people cannot receive what is distributed through ABF.
If you want to make it available to all readers you must find another method.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Btw, about the intro line: "one of three groups dedicated to freeware." To
really put that under the magnifying glass, doesn't that read that there
are only three groups dedicated to freeware?

All that said, a satisfactory replacement line does not occur to me.
Hoping to inspire someone else.

There are three alt.comp.freeware newsgroups:

alt.comp.freeware (ACF)
alt.comp.freeware.games (ACFG)
alt.comp.freeware.discussion

That's what I was *trying* to say back when. . .

Susan

 

[omega]

If binaries groups are mentioned I think the same text should also
explain that only some people have access to binaries groups, so if
somebody wants to distribute something they should be aware that a lot of
people cannot receive what is distributed through ABF.

How do people feel about annotating the list?

(An extremely rough draft)

alt.comp.freeware (ACF) is a discussion group dedicated to freeware. There
are additional newsgroups dedicated to freeware:

alt.comp.freeware.games
(Sister group to ACF. Direct your posts about freeware games here.)
alt.comp.freeware.discussion
(This is a very low-traffic group, not carried by all servers.)
alt.binaries.freeware
(Note: Many posters in acf do not have access to binary groups.)

If you want to make it available to all readers you must find another method.

Susan said that she wants you to write some user guides for upload to
the wiki.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

Binaries newsgroups are not available for most people, and the
binaries newsgroups are being abolished by an increasing number of
news servers. It is a stupid and messy way to distribute binaries,
that is why it is being abolished.

Binaries groups still are available for most people, though a lot of
people have unreliable binaries servers. Encoding as attachements
to news posts is not an efficient way to distribute files, but it's
still a popular one. The deluge of DVDs being posted may eventually
lead to a split between text Usenet and binaries Usenet, but it
hasn't happened yet.

So let's forget about binaries newsgroups.

I don't think they should be hidden just because not everyone has
access to them. I agree with your later post that the limitations
of a.b.f should be mentioned as well. I'd also add that it's
particularly important to scan files downloaded from Usenet with
good anti-malware scanners.

 

[omega]

There are three alt.comp.freeware newsgroups:

alt.comp.freeware (ACF)
alt.comp.freeware.games (ACFG)
alt.comp.freeware.discussion

Now that I cannot argue with! There are groups in that sub-hiearchy. I don't
even have to try calling in the .FR & .DE forces for countering that number.

Remark: ABF still belongs as a logical member of that list. It is not its
fault that it follows the proper news standards of being shifted over from
its subject hierarchy to alt.binaries.*

 

[jo]

I vote yes on mentioning ABF as part of that list.

Me too

 

[omega]

Now that I cannot argue with! There are groups in that sub-hiearchy.

EDIT: There are *three* groups in that sub-hierarchy.

Having a bad typo day. Too many of my sentences are ending up with so many
missing and random words. Must be due to that little shmoke I took in the
deadhead van that Rod sent me to investigate.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

EDIT: There are *three* groups in that sub-hierarchy.

There's also a.c.f.gdp, just waiting for a bunch of freeware developers
to strike up fruitful convesations.

 

[Semolina Pilchard]

Now that I cannot argue with! There are groups in that sub-hiearchy. I don't
even have to try calling in the .FR & .DE forces for countering that number.

Remark: ABF still belongs as a logical member of that list. It is not its
fault that it follows the proper news standards of being shifted over from
its subject hierarchy to alt.binaries.*

I agree with that. It's also fair to say that many newsservers don't
choose to carry alt.comp.freeware.discussion, and it propagates poorly
on many of those that do, for some reason.